France makes it illegal to work after 6PM

reply to post by blueyezblkdragon


What about the people who work at the freaking bar?

Isn't this new law kind of elitist? So only SOME people deserve down time to spend with their families?

The truth is - technology had reduced the need for human toil and yet people are toiling more than ever. Why? For more corporate profit. And - in the service sector - that means endless hours to accommodate those who actually have money to spend on consumption for more endless profit.

ScientiaFortisDefendit
I guess France needs a law to keep people from answering their phones when their boss calls?

Apparently social democrats need to be told what to do at all times. No need to do any thinking - the government will do that for you.

Yeah, 'cause like french employers are so stupid they'd never guess you aren't picking up on purpose. *eye roll here*

This law gives a legal support to that choice that we can use to defend ourselves.

But whether he suspects you didn't pick up on purpose or not,
if some pick up, and some don't, then the ones that did will keep their jobs, and the other ones won't.
The law would mean nobody would pick up, and the employer would have to change the contracts.

(once again, most people have salaries here - they do not work by the hour- so you don't get "overtime" pay.
You just may have to work from 8 in the morning until 9 at night sometimes for the only benefit of being able to stay another three months.)

NavyDoc

Aleister
This law protects workers from control-freak bosses. A fine law, and I hope other lawmakers work on it to make sure it spreads like wildfire (but only work on it before 6 p.m.)

It's not a fine law. Government should not be dictating the terms of employment. Unintended consequences of this law will be a restriction of goods and services after hours. Need a plumber after 6pm? Good luck.

I use to have the same opinion. I have changed my mind through experience.
I have gotten very used to restricted hours for service. Sunday, nothing is open.
I learned to spend the day going on a hike with my family instead of shopping.

No services or stores are open after 6:30.
I learned to do my shopping beforehand, then spend my evenings with my family.

Restaurants are not open between meal times.
I learned to not eat between meals, and all the family and friends all eat at the same time as me, so we are more likely to do it together.

The plumber doesn't have official hours after 6 pm.
I learned to offer him coffee, stop and chat when I see him around town, construct a friendly relationship with him (and the electrician, and the mechanic....) so that he will make an exception and come.

Their view of life places more emphasis on relationships, less on objects.I have found certain positive things about this that have been very beneficial for my life.

Biigs
reply to post by Aazadan

 

You need to say "i wont do anything outside of my contract, so dont expect me to" when you go for job. Thats if its generally expected that you should, which is bullcrap.

You shouldnt take a job if you dont like the terms and the terms are stipulated in the contract.

That is a concept that we have seen does not work in real life. There are people that need to feed their families, and there is not enough work for them all.
That concept only works if the business cannot reach outward for employees. Our theory was that if no one agreed to bad work conditions, the business would die for lack of human resources.

Except that in reality, al they have to do is reach out further to a country with starving desperate people. Problem solved. For them.

Just thought I would point out this is not France making it "illegal" to work after 6pm, it's a labour agreement for certain types of workers, totally different. Otherwise they'd find that support for critical infrastructure, such as comms, would fall flat as the bulk of all maintenance is done out of hours. I can tell you now, there are people working in France after 6pm perfectly legally.

Biigs
However, in the UK you are not expected to work outside your paid hours but if you work in IT support like i do, they do expect to leap on an emergancy though they wont fire you if you dont.

Quite - I work in Comms in the UK and I work a shift pattern of 2 x 12hr days (0700-1900) and 2 x 12hr nights (1900-0700) followed by 4. For working outside core hours, I get a shift allowance equal to around 20% of my salary. Likewise, in a support role where you do work core hours you might be expected to do callout on a rota basis and you should be compensated for that as well, whether you're called out or not.

ScientiaFortisDefendit

andy1972
My best mate has just moved to France from here in Spain.
He loves it. Less stress, less hours and more money.
Every second friday they dont work. In school the kids pay only 2.50 euros for school dinners, while here in Spain i'm paying 7.50 euros per day. The kids have every wednesday off school.

Yeah, but the tradeoff is... well... being French.






I'm joking, people, relax.

He's Rumanian...he's not bothered..it's a step up. When he was a kid, him and his brother where part of an exchange programme between schools in France and Rumania. He got to stay with a family there for a month.They've kept in touch for more than 20 years. The woman now is an auditor for the government and has a lot of power. She goes from county to county auditing local government account books. She's helped him and his brother get a job, get a house sorted out and everything. She's been great.

He loves France.

Bluesma

NavyDoc

Aleister
This law protects workers from control-freak bosses. A fine law, and I hope other lawmakers work on it to make sure it spreads like wildfire (but only work on it before 6 p.m.)

It's not a fine law. Government should not be dictating the terms of employment. Unintended consequences of this law will be a restriction of goods and services after hours. Need a plumber after 6pm? Good luck.

I use to have the same opinion. I have changed my mind through experience.
I have gotten very used to restricted hours for service. Sunday, nothing is open.
I learned to spend the day going on a hike with my family instead of shopping.

No services or stores are open after 6:30.
I learned to do my shopping beforehand, then spend my evenings with my family.

Restaurants are not open between meal times.
I learned to not eat between meals, and all the family and friends all eat at the same time as me, so we are more likely to do it together.

The plumber doesn't have official hours after 6 pm.
I learned to offer him coffee, stop and chat when I see him around town, construct a friendly relationship with him (and the electrician, and the mechanic....) so that he will make an exception and come.

Their view of life places more emphasis on relationships, less on objects.I have found certain positive things about this that have been very beneficial for my life.

edit on 12-4-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

Although you may have found it beneficial, would you make that decision for others? Would you have the government mandate this?

So i guess the question is, why do entire regions of countries put up with this if they are all unified in hating it?

Are they really all that spineless?

A contract is a contract. Why even have one if it you can get fired for not doings you dont actually have to?

Maybe we are just spoilt where i am and we have it easy. Generally working extra hours when you dont "have to" is like super brownie points.

Biigs
So i guess the question is, why do entire regions of countries put up with this if they are all unified in hating it?

Are they really all that spineless?

A contract is a contract. Why even have one if it you can get fired for not doings you dont actually have to?

Maybe we are just spoilt where i am and we have it easy. Generally working extra hours when you dont "have to" is like super brownie points.

Many state employees make more than their annual salary in overtime pay. If they want to work more hours to gain more pay, why should the state stop them?

NavyDoc
Although you may have found it beneficial, would you make that decision for others? Would you have the government mandate this?

The thing is, it's easy to flip that position around. If there are those willing to work after hours not on the clock it creates an expectation for everyone else to do the same. Should the workaholics get to make the decision that everyone else must work harder too or be faced with job loss?

NavyDoc


Although you may have found it beneficial, would you make that decision for others? Would you have the government mandate this?

Much of it IS mandated by the government. Like stores being closed on Sunday.

When I first got here, I was irritated as heck and shocked that the people allowed the government to tell all businesses they could not open on Sunday. I also could not grasp why restaurants don't open between meal times. Why all other business closes between 12h00 and 2:00.

In the last few years, there has been some debate and conflict about the closed sundays issue- I immediately assumed everyone was FOR that changing. Everytime the subject arose around others I would speak as if it is great they were thinking of changing it.

EACH TIME people got suddenly very ill at ease, and the most daring and outspoken of them would speak for the rest and explain to me like I was a child that "We don't want that. It is a bad thing. It is what the big corporations want, in order to increase their already huge wealth, at the price of our family and community life. We do not want to let them destroy us that way. We will not let them."

I was confused for a while but with time I came to understand that "we" for them, means "our government".
These laws put in place by the government are not the government putting limits on the people, it is the people putting limits on the big corporations.

Makes sense. The people vote for every member in that government, they protest actively and keep it in line. They do not have any of that power inside of corporate entities. Those are individuals.

In our american thinking, individual rights are more important than the majority rights. So of course, we give corporate entities more power than the majority (the people).


(......then we come grumble about that on a conspiracy site. )


But here, the majority has agreed that more than becoming richer, they want to keep a moderate lifestyle, with a balance between work and community, and they put limits which protect that. If I (or any other individual) do not agree with that, we can leave. No one is stopping us. It is easier for an individual to leave than the majority.

eta: Just a note on the example of bans on stores opening on Sunday- Sunday is when most villages have flea markets and what you might call "farmers markets"- where people go to sell their handmade objects and homegrown vegetables and fruits, cheeses, breads, meats, etc. This is an outdoor thing, in which all the members of the community come to buy and to socialize.
The ban protects the people who do this. The ones who make money on the side selling their homegrown organic veggies and stuff. If you open a huge chain grocery store with crapfood for cheap that day, eventually people will end up going there instead. It will kill the small artisanal business and bonding activity of the community.

If government won't stand up for the small business and artisans, against corporate entities, who will???

And we also tend to act as if we don't need a little support from the exterior in fighting against our base appetites, but I have found that is unrealistic. It is a great theory, but in reality, trying to diet while filling your fridge and cupboards with cakes and chips, and abstaining while everyone else is chowing down often ends up with you joining them eventually. Our culture overestimates the power of the will, and understimates the power of collective will, and of the bodily drives.

reply to post by Bluesma


Wow great explanation of the French way. The people control their government instead of the big corporations and they still manage to be a relatively rich country.

I think people in the US, UK etc need to seriously think about who has it right. I would rather have time with my family than anything else in this short life.

reply to post by EasyPleaseMe


Well, they are certainly not perfect, all countries have their strengths and weaknesses and just plain differences in cultural preference... but this is something I like

Biigs
So i guess the question is, why do entire regions of countries put up with this if they are all unified in hating it?

Are they really all that spineless?

A contract is a contract. Why even have one if it you can get fired for not doings you dont actually have to?

Maybe we are just spoilt where i am and we have it easy. Generally working extra hours when you dont "have to" is like super brownie points.

Obviously they are not just putting up with it- they are passing legislation to change it, as you see here.

But the employers always look for loopholes, and it is a never ending battle.