Aspiring TV producer mistakenly killed by deputies in West Hollywood

Another use of the "He was coming right for me" defense. Three guys in an apartment being held hostage and attacked by knife-wielding assailant. Two of the victims run for it, and the deputies gun them down, killing one, because "they were aggressing the deputies".

At least that's what the LA County Sheriff's department came up with after they discussed it a bit.

"Scott, the acting sheriff, said the case was complicated and it took some time to sort out."

Translation: we're so incompetent that we shot the victims and had to circle the wagons until everyone was briefed on the story we want to present.

Linky

Let me get this straight.

Victim shot suspect "subdued"?

Wtf?

reply to post by Bedlam


Damn...the hostages were safer with the ones holding them hostage.

What a horrible thing to happen to them. To escape, thinking they were safe...then shot by trigger happy idiots...

The LEO are out of control. They all think they're being filmed for an episode of COPS reality show.

Des

reply to post by Destinyone


Well, if you're being held hostage by a knife wielding maniac and you get a chance to run for it, you'd better put on a pink tutu and skip with a fruit basket or something, or it's "he's coming right at us" for you, bucko.

You'd think the cops would be alert for the assailant making an escape. If I ran out of the building with a rifle, that would be understandable if I got shot. But to just run out? That's one of those little things you HAVE TO FARKING EXPECT MIGHT HAPPEN. Who trains these guys? Seriously?

Of COURSE there's a chance the victims might get away. You can't just go blazing away at everyone trying to exit a building. That's why you put the damned cordon up to begin with. It's to give you some time to look at what's going on. If the cops are too ball-less or untrained to make a dynamic entry and save the guys inside, then at the least they ought not be shooting by reflex when people try to escape on their own.

reply to post by Bedlam


Oh man, this is terrible but, I think this is a mistake (a big one but, a mistake).

More importantly, there is a proper procedure for addressing this if it turns out to be intentional, these were sheriff's deputies and as such elected officials who can be voted out if need be. The same cannot be said about militarized municipal police.

reply to post by Bedlam


Police should not be allowed to carry firearms anymore..Just citizens in good standing with the law.
Or police need to be held accountable for their actions just like anyone else.

greencmp
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Oh man, this is terrible but, I think this is a mistake (a big one but, a mistake).

More importantly, there is a proper procedure for addressing this if it turns out to be intentional, these were sheriff's deputies and as such elected officials who can be voted out if need be. The same cannot be said about militarized municipal police.

Killing someone by whoopsie is generally called negligent homicide, and it's a felony. It doesn't involve intent or malice.

You expect the deputies to be better trained. You expect them to establish a proper perimeter, one that gives them sufficient time to make an accurate judgement when someone comes busting out of the building. But, as always, they use the "coming right at us" defense and nothing happens.

Turn it around - if a cop kicks in my door, and he's got the WRONG house, and I'm committing no crimes, have no expectation that I might be arrested and when the cop breaks in without warning I shoot him without malice or intent, then do I get the opportunity to use the "he was coming right at me" defense? No. I'll go to prison.

If a cop, knowing that in the situation that a victim might come out and thus able to prepare for it, shoots the victim anyway, he ought not be allowed the "coming right at me" defense. Hell, it's not even like they were aiming for the assailant and hit the victim. They were just set to kill anyone coming out.

greencmp
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Oh man, this is terrible but, I think this is a mistake (a big one but, a mistake).

More importantly, there is a proper procedure for addressing this if it turns out to be intentional, these were sheriff's deputies and as such elected officials who can be voted out if need be. The same cannot be said about militarized municipal police.

Every sheriff isn't voted in. Only one.

The rest go to the academy just like LAPD. There's only one head honcho in town and he recently stepped down...Oooops, sorry, "retired" that's elected and that was Sheriff Lee Baca.

ETA
LA County Government

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1

every sheriff isn't voted in. Only one.

You are referring to Deputies.
Every Sheriff is voted in.

reply to post by DenyFlatulence


Yes, sheriff deputies

Yes, the one sheriff, of any county is voted in.

Bedlam

greencmp
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Oh man, this is terrible but, I think this is a mistake (a big one but, a mistake).

More importantly, there is a proper procedure for addressing this if it turns out to be intentional, these were sheriff's deputies and as such elected officials who can be voted out if need be. The same cannot be said about militarized municipal police.

Killing someone by whoopsie is generally called negligent homicide, and it's a felony. It doesn't involve intent or malice.

You expect the deputies to be better trained. You expect them to establish a proper perimeter, one that gives them sufficient time to make an accurate judgement when someone comes busting out of the building. But, as always, they use the "coming right at us" defense and nothing happens.

Turn it around - if a cop kicks in my door, and he's got the WRONG house, and I'm committing no crimes, have no expectation that I might be arrested and when the cop breaks in without warning I shoot him without malice or intent, then do I get the opportunity to use the "he was coming right at me" defense? No. I'll go to prison.

If a cop, knowing that in the situation that a victim might come out and thus able to prepare for it, shoots the victim anyway, he ought not be allowed the "coming right at me" defense. Hell, it's not even like they were aiming for the assailant and hit the victim. They were just set to kill anyone coming out.

Trust me, I am not one for excusing police violence.

However, my concern is primarily about unelected paramilitary police expansion so, I am going to err on the side of caution since this is a sheriff.

An important difference here is the fact that a crime was actually committed, hostages were taken. A distinction which is notably absent from most of the other excessive force examples.

DenyFlatulence
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Police should not be allowed to carry firearms anymore..Just citizens in good standing with the law.
Or police need to be held accountable for their actions just like anyone else.

I agree, I think they need to be disarmed until we can lay most of them off.

DenyFlatulence
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Police should not be allowed to carry firearms anymore..Just citizens in good standing with the law.
Or police need to be held accountable for their actions just like anyone else.

I think anyone legally able to carry a gun should be allowed to. I do agree that any LEO that kills an innocent person should be held accountable, just like anyone else.

reply to post by Bedlam


From your link: Winkler's friend Devin Richardson said Winkler was friends with two of the people held hostage and had rushed over to the apartment when he heard them screaming.

“It's just a really sad story,” Richardson said. “He basically went to help some neighbors and ends up getting shot.”

Winkler had moved to West Hollywood from Washington state six months ago to pursue a career in entertainment and had recently been hired for several days as a production assistant for the comedy show “Tosh.0.” Richardson said Winkler wanted to become a producer.

www.latimes.com...

WOW!!!! The Winkler guy ran over to try to help....SAD

reply to post by greencmp


Nothing will change, until police are held accountable by external oversite or just the regular courts would be ideal. Take the burden off the taxpayer and place it where it belongs. On the individual LEO's.
It's sad to read about so many of these instances. It really is.
In my city the LE are awesome! We almost never have these tragedies.
For the most part they understand their role is to PROTECT and SERVE.

ThePublicEnemyNo1

greencmp
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Oh man, this is terrible but, I think this is a mistake (a big one but, a mistake).

More importantly, there is a proper procedure for addressing this if it turns out to be intentional, these were sheriff's deputies and as such elected officials who can be voted out if need be. The same cannot be said about militarized municipal police.

Every sheriff isn't voted in. Only one.

The rest go to the academy just like LAPD. There's only one head honcho in town and he recently stepped down...Oooops, sorry, "retired" that's elected and that was Sheriff Lee Baca.

ETA
LA County Government

edit on 4/10/14 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)

True, but the Sheriff is and his department is under his (or his replacement's) control. They do get some nifty toys now and again but, they are county based and frankly, they aren't the big problem.

City police chief's are being given state and federal money to grossly expand the police state and have failed to serve their communities.

ThePublicEnemyNo1

DenyFlatulence
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Police should not be allowed to carry firearms anymore..Just citizens in good standing with the law.
Or police need to be held accountable for their actions just like anyone else.

I think anyone legally able to carry a gun should be allowed to. I do agree that any LEO that kills an innocent person should be held accountable, just like anyone else.

I have been brainstorming on an idea to replace municipal police with a 'jury duty' type system. Just a thought still but, it could work.

Since everybody can carry concealed, they could be armed just like everyone else but, I would prefer that they have little authority. I envision more of a 'hall monitor' level of responsibility. Random and temporary duty on the order of few days to a week.

DenyFlatulence
reply to post by greencmp

 

Nothing will change, until police are held accountable by external oversite or just the regular courts would be ideal. Take the burden off the taxpayer and place it where it belongs. On the individual LEO's.
It's sad to read about so many of these instances. It really is.
In my city the LE are awesome! We almost never have these tragedies.
For the most part they understand their role is to PROTECT and SERVE.

I have little confidence in simple oversight improvements to correct this, the entire apparatus just expands.

You are right that the money problem is significant. Any successful excessive force case is ultimately funded by the taxpayers and the towns usually endure increased property taxes which never go back down. Police violence against society is essentially rewarded with a budget increase on the worst offending departments.

reply to post by Bedlam


With news of SWAT teams assaulting farmers for selling organic milk and police officers shooting innocent dogs and people this doesn't surprise me.

greencmp

ThePublicEnemyNo1

DenyFlatulence
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Police should not be allowed to carry firearms anymore..Just citizens in good standing with the law.
Or police need to be held accountable for their actions just like anyone else.

I think anyone legally able to carry a gun should be allowed to. I do agree that any LEO that kills an innocent person should be held accountable, just like anyone else.

I have been brainstorming on an idea to replace municipal police with a 'jury duty' type system. Just a thought still but, it could work.

Since everybody can carry concealed, they could be armed just like everyone else but, I would prefer that they have little authority. I envision more of a 'hall monitor' level of responsibility. Random and temporary duty on the order of few days to a week.

edit on 10-4-2014 by greencmp because: (no reason given)

You shouldn't give out bad advice. It is not legal for everyone to carry concealed weapons everywhere and in most states you need a special permit to carry concealed weapons. Different states have different laws when it comes to this so people should check local laws before doing so.