Pharaonic seal found in ancient coffin in Israel

- Israeli archaeologists unveiled on Wednesday a 3,300-year-old coffin containing a signet ring bearing the name of an Egyptian pharaoh among the remains of what they believe was a local nobleman.

The discovery last month in Israel's northern Jezreel Valley, was the first of its kind in the region in half a century and pointed to wide Egyptian influence during the late Bronze Age reign of Seti I, whose name was on the seal.

The Israel Antiquities Authority said it had dated remains in the broken coffin - whose cover fragments clearly depict a human face, ears and hands - to the 13th century BC. The discovery was made last month during the digging of a gas pipeline.

Archaeologist Ron Beeri, a member of the excavation team, said the presence of the seal suggested the remains were those of a wealthy Canaanite who may have collected taxes or performed other duties on behalf of ancient Egypt.

"We can't rule out the possibility that it may simply be a wealthy person who knew the Egyptian burial customs and preferred to be buried like an Egyptian, but in my opinion this possibility is less likely," Beeri said.

news.yahoo.com...

I have always maintained that Kemitic influences was deep rooted in the Levant going back all the way to the kingdom of Ta-Seti but especially under Pharaohs Pepy I and II, the noble in question may well have acted like the King's Son of Kush but that's just my opinion.

Wasn't Seti the father of Ramses and the supposed pharaoh in the biblical story of the exodus?

Pretty neat.

reply to post by Spider879


Good find.

Further proof that ancient peoples were more interconnected than we think. And religions were not exempt. Must point out tho, Israel as we see it today has NOTHING to do with what happened way back when.

Very interesting!

I can't get the photo on here but why is his thumb longer than his fingers? I know this is a carving but why would they be in such a rush that accuracy wouldn't be important if he/she was an important person? The ears look carefully done so why not the hands.

news.discovery.com...

TiedDestructor
Wasn't Seti the father of Ramses and the supposed pharaoh in the biblical story of the exodus?

Pretty neat.

Yes indeed but there are problems with the Exodus story it self for if you remember a part in the exodus story that a king came to be who knew not Joseph that would fit more neatly from an historical perspective with the 17th and early 18th liberation dynasties who were busy expelling foreigners from the land ie Hyksos a Set worshiping folk interesting also that "Seti " is the name of the grand father of Ramses.

Spider879

TiedDestructor
Wasn't Seti the father of Ramses and the supposed pharaoh in the biblical story of the exodus?

Pretty neat.

Yes indeed but there are problems with the Exodus story it self for if you remember a part in the exodus story that a king came to be who knew not Joseph that would fit more neatly from an historical perspective with the 17th and early 18th liberation dynasties who were busy expelling foreigners from the land ie Hyksos a Set worshiping folk interesting also that "Seti " is the name of the grand father of Ramses.

you seem to know a lot a great deal of the history of the subject. Could you elaborate for us?
I am interested.

Dianec
I can't get the photo on here but why is his thumb longer than his fingers? I know this is a carving but why would they be in such a rush that accuracy wouldn't be important if he/she was an important person? The ears look carefully done so why not the hands.

news.discovery.com...

I don't know however look at the unconventional portraits of the Amarna family but that is indeed curious.

reply to post by Spider879


They have been uncovering artifacts for years that are Egyptian, recently they found a part of a small Sphinx more than 4,000 years old, some paws, who really truly knows the ancient borders ? we are talking 3000 years and we keep uncovering things that some would think rewrite history or actually re-right history.


But one always has to have access to a real and accurate timeline to get some understanding of who was occupying what territories, when certain historical records mention events I have my doubts in some cases of ancient history because as you know there are things that are to remain hidden (thanks to the 33rd dynasty ) the last native Egyptian dynasty was the 30th, after being conquered by the Persians who took over rulership, this Obelisk was possibly from that later Roman or Ptolmaic period, thousands of years after this new find, which looks to be in the range of Scorpion I 's reign or close.
Scorpion I

Hippodrome Obelisk in Israel


List of Pharohs only as good as Wikipedia's info

reply to post by Dianec


The thumbs are strange, like big toe thumbs.

strongfp

Spider879

TiedDestructor
Wasn't Seti the father of Ramses and the supposed pharaoh in the biblical story of the exodus?

Pretty neat.

Yes indeed but there are problems with the Exodus story it self for if you remember a part in the exodus story that a king came to be who knew not Joseph that would fit more neatly from an historical perspective with the 17th and early 18th liberation dynasties who were busy expelling foreigners from the land ie Hyksos a Set worshiping folk interesting also that "Seti " is the name of the grand father of Ramses.

you seem to know a lot a great deal of the history of the subject. Could you elaborate for us?
I am interested.

Ok towards the end of the end of the old Kingdom namely the 13-16th dynasties a conglomerate of people collectively known as the Hyksos infiltrated or stormed into lower Kmt now according to Manetho

Tutimaeus. In his reign, for what cause I know not, a blast of God smote us; and
unexpectedly, from the regions of the East, invaders of obscure race marched in
confidence of victory against our land. By main force they easily seized it
without striking a blow; and having overpowered the rulers of the land, they then
burned our cities ruthlessly, razed to the ground the temples of the gods, and
treated all the natives with a cruel hostility, massacring some and leading into
slavery the wives and children of others. Finally, they appointed as king one of
their number whose name was Salitis. He had his seat at Memphis, levying
tribute from Upper and Lower Egypt, and always leaving garrisons behind in the
most advantageous positions. Above all, he fortified the district to the east,
foreseeing that the Assyrians, as they grew stronger, would one day covet and
attack his kingdom. In the Saïte [Sethroïte] nome he found a city very favourably
situated on the east of the Bubastite branch of the Nile, and called Auaris after an
ancient religious tradition. This palace he rebuilt and fortified with massive walls,
planting there a garrison of as many as 240,000 heavy-armed men to guard his
frontier (Josephus quoting Manetho, Contra Apionem, book I., chapter 14, p

file:///C:/Users/Allen/Downloads/Bless_Jonathon_Thesis.pdf

In this group was what I would call proto Hebrews as a matter of fact one of their kings was called Yaqub-Har aka Yosef or Joseph if this kings was remembered fondly by the descendants of those who got kicked out of Kmt at the end of the Hyksos era then we get our basis for our biblical Joseph,however the Liberation forces would not have looked kindly on any Hyksos as they would view the era as being especially humiliating,although the God Set was one of the oldest gods not really negative(more like Loki of the Norsemen or Eschu Elegbra of the Yoruba people) it was after that era that Set worship was viewed with disdain the Amen priest-hood would rise to great power,incidentally Seti I claimed certain kinship with up river folks also a Set worshiping people.

Might I aslo add that certain group of southerners were linked to the Hyksos as one of the delta kings was named Nahasi a name associated with Ku#ies,but despite what Menetho said these folks were neither obscure or unexpected as they were under the thumb of Kmt's overlords for centuries enough to merge Kmt's gods and customs with theirs.

reply to post by raedar


Yes that is what I thought. I even looked twice to see if it was a foot. It looks like a ladies hands due to slim and long fingers but then I see that thumb and can't figure that out. I tried to look it up (quick google) and there is nothing thus far I can find about a longer thumb representing some sort of godly thing or any other purpose.

Go to the second picture from that link from my previous post if you can. Do you see a smaller face below the mummy's face? It's in between the hand and the mummy's face (right hand as your looking at it). This may be one of those tricks of the eye but it looks like a smaller face. I'm sure they would have mentioned this but it popped out to me.

Dianec
I can't get the photo on here but why is his thumb longer than his fingers? I know this is a carving but why would they be in such a rush that accuracy wouldn't be important if he/she was an important person? The ears look carefully done so why not the hands.

news.discovery.com...

Those are his feet, he was known as Mr. Bend, king of agility.

reply to post by Spider879


Excellent, have you done any research on who the Horites were and the surprising lineage (Moses, Aaron and Miriam were possibly of that lineage)? the Horites worshipped Horus but some dispute this, I have been researching this history recently and there are some things that do not make any sense whatsoever, sort of like these finds.

phinubian
reply to post by Spider879

 

Excellent, have you done any research on who the Horites were and the surprising lineage (Moses, Aaron and Miriam were possibly of that lineage)? the Horites worshipped Horus but some dispute this, I have been researching this history recently and there are some things that do not make any sense whatsoever, sort of like these finds.

It is quite possible remember the golden calf was non other than Hathor.
gotta run will cont. later.

kemites are hamites. (ham as in noah's son). egypt is the land of ham (khem)
i have this little pet theory that states that ham as a name, was originally ha'adam, and that ha'adam was
named after atum (adam) as the creator god. different topic

phinubian
reply to post by Spider879

 

They have been uncovering artifacts for years that are Egyptian, recently they found a part of a small Sphinx more than 4,000 years old, some paws, who really truly knows the ancient borders ? we are talking 3000 years and we keep uncovering things that some would think rewrite history or actually re-right history.


But one always has to have access to a real and accurate timeline to get some understanding of who was occupying what territories, when certain historical records mention events I have my doubts in some cases of ancient history because as you know there are things that are to remain hidden (thanks to the 33rd dynasty

) the last native Egyptian dynasty was the 30th, after being conquered by the Persians who took over rulership, this Obelisk was possibly from that later Roman or Ptolmaic period, thousands of years after this new find, which looks to be in the range of Scorpion I 's reign or close.
Scorpion I

Hippodrome Obelisk in Israel


List of Pharohs only as good as Wikipedia's info

edit on 10-4-2014 by phinubian because: (no reason given)

i think the hyksos expulsion is a marker on the timeline, correlating to the exodus. once you have that, events forwards are easier to define, and events backwards as well. in ancient akkad, enmerkar rebuilt the temple to inana (isis) in the devastated remains of the sumerian civilization, and later traveled to abydos in upper egypt, setting up the post black sea flood pharaonic line there. that event was around 2700 bc (i'd have to review my notes to be really accurate). that was about 200 years following ham's return to lower egypt. so you have 4 markers on the timeline. the black sea flood around 3000 bc. the return of ham afterwards, around 2900 bc. and the rise of the pharaonic line at abydos, around 2700 bc. the hyksos expulsion around 1500 bc.

reply to post by undo


Yes you are correct about that , and they definitely influenced Egypt's culture and that has to be taken into consideration, outside of someone putting together accurate documentaries on these things, it is difficult to imagine in a linear fashion, all of the things happening during certain periods of history , unfortunately many things we can only make assumptions about, especially when records and other artifacts have been completely destroyed either through time or during periods of conquest and war.

undo
kemites are hamites. (ham as in noah's son). egypt is the land of ham (khem)
i have this little pet theory that states that ham as a name, was originally ha'adam, and that ha'adam was
named after atum (adam) as the creator god. different topic

edit on 10-4-2014 by undo because: (no reason given)

No not really off topic Undo,as it deals with cross cultural give and take,incidentally I am looking into a similar theory by Dr Charles S. Finch. who went in the same direction you are heading,keep in mind however he is a medical practitioner so he is an independent researcher working out side his field,but the connections between ancient Kemitc and Hebrew may seem somewhat off until one remembers that all Semitic languages is but apart of the greater Afrasian language family and the youngest branch at that,Kemitic it self being even older so we should expect relatedness in meaning and sound not just accidental similitaries ,here is some of what he have:
Dr.Charles.S. Finch.

The relationship in form,sound,and meaning between Bibical names and corresponding Egyptian words is really quite astounding;indeed the Egyptian permits us to uncover meanings and connections heretofore completely hidden from us.the etymology therefore uncover a whole hidden history that conventional philology and theology seems utterly oblivious of.The results are sure to surprise and outrage.

The Hebrew Adam is the first man in the image of God,the father of mankind,and the completion of creation. The Egyptian Atem is the first God in the image of man and the father of mankind through a self-creative act. the root "tem" in Atem means both "completion" and "mankind". the word "At" is an Egyptian name for "father". moreover we know that Adam the first namer of created things;the Egyptian "dem" means "to name"clearly there is an Egyptian parentage for Adam and he is to be equated to Atem. Adam's consort is Eve whose Hebrew name is"(C)Havvah"and who, in the Genesis, story is seduced by the Serpent. the name Havvah corresponds to the Egyptian "Hefa" who is the Great Mother Serpent of the world.There are several meaning to peeled back here: Eve-Havvah as Hefa is the is Serpent of Genesis in it's form as the Great Mother but Adam-Atem is also the the Great Serpent.the Serpent of Genesis,then,is indubitably Eve in one aspect but Adam in another;Thus Adam and Eve are both humanized forms of the Great Cosmic Serpent.



Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain, "Qayin" in Hebrew,who struck down his brother Abel in an act of murder.In Egyptian "qen" means to beat,to strike down,to murder,so Cain's name derives from the salient deeds of his life. The figure Noah is seen in many guises:he is the survivor of the flood,he is the first cultivator of the vine through which he succumbs to drunkenness, and he is also"the gardener,the husbandman,the cultivator." In Hebrew,Noah is "nouach"(the "ch" being pronounced like a near-silent "K").In Egyptian,"Nu" is the personification of the waters, the embodiment of the Great Flood of both heaven and earth.The Egyptian word "Akh" means "fertile field,garden,irrigated lands,"thus the Egyptian Nu-Akh is in reality the flood waters that irrigate and fertilize the cultivated lands,which is in perfect keeping with Noah's double personification as the man of the flood and the gardener or husbandman.The ark of Noah is a replica of the ark of the sun that floats across the heavenly waters of Nu (or Nun). Additionally,Noah-Nuach is identical to the Egyptian "nuch" which means "drunkenness",a clear reference to the drunken episode of Noah the wine maker.