Police Shoot and Kill Man for Watering Lawn

reply to post by Domo1


Had this guy been camping in Albuquerque with a hose attachment the incident would have ended peacefully

I've lived in apartments and was pretty aware of who lived there. Seeing a stranger walking around with a hose attachment (would be hard to tell the difference between one and a gun if not within 30 feet) would certainly have resulted in me calling the cops. [

I certainly would not jump the gun there and call the cops, a hose attachment is distinctly smaller than a hand gun . And I know what a derringer looks like. One would think the cops would know the difference. They are trained observers that are around guns every day, go to target practice yet cant make the distinction? Either the neighbors are eating paranoia pie or cant make a reasonable observation. Same applies to the cops , not sure if blind or trigger happy. Its manslaughter to say the least. I guess we better have a orange cap on water sprayers now.



edit to add; Shot 12 times

That is not neutralizing the target, that is a firing squad!


The common police issue Glock 17 has plenty of stopping power with just a few rounds. This man was executed.

Aazadan

Kromlech
They shot him because he watered his lawn, or because his weird-looking hose nozzle looked like a gun? WHICH?

Does it matter which? They were covertly observing him for quite some time. If they can't figure out what he's doing, then maybe they shouldn't be cops? How difficult is it to use some binoculars and look at the object? Or perhaps just walk up to him and ask what's going on.

Wait... I thought owning a gun was legal in the US? So what if he had a damn gun on his own property? So let me get this straight... merely holding a firearm whilst standing on ones own property is enough for the police to get called in? Why would the neighbors be so worried that he had a gun in his possession when he hadn't committed any crimes with the gun? I'm willing to bet they weren't natural US citizens. Either that or they really had a grudge against the guy.

Domo1
reply to post by diggindirt

 

Drunk and high aren't against the law if you are in your own yard minding your own business as this man was.

This is starting to irritate me. He was not in his own yard. He was visiting an apartment complex and walking around/slumped over with a hose attachment (and no hose).

I've lived in apartments and was pretty aware of who lived there. Seeing a stranger walking around with a hose attachment (would be hard to tell the difference between one and a gun if not within 30 feet) would certainly have resulted in me calling the cops.

I am so tired of these BS thread titles 'Someone killed for _____' where the _______ is some mundane activity to elicit an emotional response from the reader. 'Man arrested for dancing', 'Man beaten for jaywalking' etc. The guy wasn't shot for watering his lawn. He wasn't watering anything. He was shot because the cops mistook a hose attachment for a gun.

I think the police were absolute morons with the way they handled the situation, but ATS just makes me cringe.

I'm not doubting the cops screwed up, but I would sure like to see a video before I start pretending I know what actually happened.

So if he was sitting (as the coroner's report stated) on someone else's stoop and was shot by the cops who couldn't tell a hose nozzle from a gun, the cops were only morons. Not criminals.
I see.
And bow to your superior wisdom in the matter. And sincerely hope that neither you or yours ever encounters a moronic cop.

I feel that if a cop takes a life by accident then I feel the family should have right to seek death penalty a life for a life. The chief still stands with his officers decisions. What a cold hearted bastard.

reply to post by diggindirt


Read what I said again.

reply to post by sean


There is never recourse for cop on civilian murder. The chief always makes a statement to press saying "an internal investigation will be conducted while officer _______ is on paid leave "vacation" to save face then days later the Chief clears the officers for his actions and its always justified. Same thing happened here but they were shooting dogs on folks property left and right. A whole neighborhood was in a riot the last time it happened and almost lynched the cop after they witnessed him execute a friendly k9. Its been years since and the killings stopped. I guess when people finally take action it does make the jack boots think twice.

ChaoticOrder
Wait... I thought owning a gun was legal in the US? So what if he had a damn gun on his own property?

Well, your ownership of a firearm is trumped by the "He's coming right at us" theory of cop safety.

If a cop wanders up on you while you are in possession of a firearm, they're authorized by the police union's buffaloing of the prosecutor, the police unions, and the fact that they get to investigate themselves to just #ing murder you by saying "He was coming right at me" and "I can't be judged by my reaction to a rapidly evolving situation". Plus it doesn't hurt that they're all real happy to just perjure themselves at the drop of a hat, as long as it holds the thin blue line.

It's worked so very well for them so far. MUCH better than "you can simply say you thought the cell phone was a gun" or "if they won't stop recording you, just kill them and claim you thought it was a firearm". So far, "he was coming right at me" has been the touchstone of all cop malfeasance. Because they're all shiny heroes.

Sadly, no one questions if the story actually holds up, or if "I can't be judged by my reaction" is really something that's up to absolving them from the death. "Was your judgement for #" or "perhaps you're a bit too trigger happy with that judgement" or "it's become patently obvious that you're all honorless perjuring liars" is never brought up.

reply to post by hogstooth


Those are rough guidlines.

If he was a big guy or just to heavy drink his tolerance would be higher.

minusinfinity
[

He was drunk and high ,look at the autopsy report.

There are always two sides.

Sorry but I hust cant grasp how in any civilised country being drunk and high warrents summary execution on the spot!


Only time LEO should EVER even draw there weapons is if there is a direct threat to themselves or the public, never because someine being difficult.

crazyewok

Only time LEO should EVER even draw there weapons is if there is a direct threat to themselves or the public, never because someine being difficult.

He was coming right at them. How dare you question the shiny heroes! Don't you watch TV?

HomerinNC
reply to post by Sremmos80

 

according to the story, he pointed it at the LEOs, so they opened fire.

If it was a real firearm and the LEO was killed because he hesitated, what would you say then?

What would I say?

O well he died in the line of duty thats what!

If your so concerned for your own skin dont join the police.

British police dont just charge in and shoot s*** up and get on just fine so dont see why the USA cops need too.

If I surreptitiously viewed my unarmed neighbor for 15 minutes and shot him 12 times, I have no doubt that I would be tried for first degree murder.
This illustrates the difference between the police and common citizens.

butcherguy
If I surreptitiously viewed my unarmed neighbor for 15 minutes and shot him 12 times, I have no doubt that I would be tried for first degree murder.

You're not a shiny hero. Try it... say "He was coming right at me".

Did it make you feel empowered? No. You don't have the lobbying power of $32 million in bribe money in the bank like FOP. If you did, a shiny blue aura of power would have enveloped you, and you'd have developed the ability to pass judgement on your own actions outside the rule of law.

ChaoticOrder
Wait... I thought owning a gun was legal in the US? So what if he had a damn gun on his own property? So let me get this straight... merely holding a firearm whilst standing on ones own property is enough for the police to get called in? Why would the neighbors be so worried that he had a gun in his possession when he hadn't committed any crimes with the gun? I'm willing to bet they weren't natural US citizens. Either that or they really had a grudge against the guy.

edit on 10/4/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

It is legal to own a gun in the US, though a few areas have effectively outlawed them with local laws. However, the cops don't care about the legality of a weapon. To them if you have a gun, even if it's in your own property (for which you can still get a brandishing charge) you have a deadly weapon that can be used against them.

This goes back to what I said before, in modern police philosophy it's all about threat neutralization. Even if what you're doing is legal, it represents a threat to the officer, and they are trained to take you down by any means available until you can no longer potentially threaten them.

When it comes to the neighbors call, as I said it can count as brandishing which is a crime. The neighbor could also say they feel threatened which is enough to cause the cops to show up and just convince the person to stop doing something that could be interpreted as threatening to their neighbor.

TheWhiteKnight

6.5 million, that buys a lot of amnesia

reply to post by strawburry

 

You think so? You think that money, or anything can fill this gaping horror?

What a telling remark. I'd worry, were I related to you.

To you it does, or you wouldn't have dreamed of making such a statement; not even in a nightmare does this have any truth in it.

Money cannot even buy love, let alone bring back loss of life. I suggest a spiritual retreat. A long one.

# 224

edit on 9-4-2014 by TheWhiteKnight because: (no reason given)

Did they refuse the 6.5 million or hand it back?

Wonder how their lifestyle "improved" up in the world with that 6.5 million, new car? New house? Holidays?

the new slogan is

To Serve , ya best protect ya neck !

reminds of the poor kid in his girlfriends room.

she said she didn't know him and dad shot him dead.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by minusinfinity

 

And that reason was explained in the article as well as by several people in this thread already. His neighbors saw him holding a spray nozzle, thought it was a gun, and called the police. Maybe while he was high, he was pretending it was a gun and making gun noises and motions, but that STILL isn't a justifiable reason to call the police.

No freaking BS man. I swear... I'm taking my kids toy guns away from them this evening because accoring to "minusinfinity" my kids playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians aren't innocent. ... This is a shame... even more so that s/he is saying stupid crap like that.

I have the final report from the District Attorney's Office and they were justified in protecting themselves.

What really happened-and what underground internet sites claim to have happened is completely different.

The District Attorney's Office is appealing the monetary award.

spooky24
The District Attorney's Office is appealing the monetary award.

Of that, I have no doubt. I wonder if it hurts having FOP's hand up his ass when they use him as a puppet.