'Why Gold Would Be Useless in an Economic Apocalypse'

Firstly the army would step in to bring about or regain order

Secondly gold would be used to back a new currency

Gold will always be important

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


And after a major societal collapse, how many people will care about computers or space shuttles?

reply to post by gladtobehere


Your argument (as well as Ron Paul's) almost implies that there is some mystical reason for 'hoarding gold.' The bankers don't even think it's useful. Gold is useful in a highly connected society of opulence. In a SHTF scenario, there is no opulence for the most part.

brazenalderpadrescorpio

Because there are a lot of rich people out there that only use gold as jewelry.

Funny you should mention that. On occasion, I stop into pawn shops looking for good deals here and there. I don't know if it's just me or what, but I've noticed a distinct lack of 14k jewelry available. Used to be 18k was hard to find, now it's 14k as well. A lot of 9k and 10k available, and the few 14k pieces are way overpriced. Anyone else notice that lately?

To your point, though, I really doubt the Federal Reserve Bank used Germany's nearly 700 tons of gold to make jewelry. What would they do with it? Sell it? They are the Federal Reserve, they print all the money they need. So why not return the gold, if they have it. If not, what happened to it? If the Fed does have it, why hold on to it if it's just a shiny metal taking up space?

brazenalderpadrescorpio

In a Mad Max scenario there would be no need for a space program. The elites mentioned in another post would probably be the only ones going into space.

You are overlooking some of the other properties of gold. It is extremely acid resistant. It makes first rate heat and radiation shielding. It is an excellent electrical conductor, and it's non-tarnishing properties make for electronic equipment with unmatched reliability. It's very ductile and malleable, an ounce of gold can be stretched into a wire up to 50 miles long, it can be hammered into sheets thousands of an inch thick.

I can go on and on about the known properties of gold, but I can't help but wonder about what properties may not be so well known. It's generally thought that secret technologies being developed by governments may be up to 50 years ahead of the technologies available commercially. Who knows what new technologies may depend heavily on gold? Is that why the Fed doesn't want to give up any?

Something you want to keep in mind about the Mad Max, SHTF scenario. Food, you can grow, hunt, fish, etc. Food is a renewable resource. Shelter, cut trees down and they grow back. Iron, carbon, lead, copper, and tin are pretty abundant on the earth, as are the chemicals needed to make gunpowder. Heavier elements like gold, platinum, and uranium are very rare because they are only formed in supernovas. I read once something to the effect that all the platinum in the world would fit inside an average two-story house. Not sure if that's true, but the point is these heavier elements don't exactly grow on trees, so to speak. Unless mankind is reduced to stone knives and bear skins, elements like gold will be sought after by those who know what they can do.

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio


Gold and precious metals will be used at first....if the world totally collapses then yes...but I dont think you will see instant total collapse....you will see a major downfall....then precious metals will sky rocket...either they save us or we go down further.

I think owning a little bit of gold and silver couldnt hurt.

Gold was used all over Argentina when it had its recent economic collapse and what is funny is...1 oz gold coins were too big....they prefered junk jewelry and stuff like that...so it may be good to get some smaller golder pieces as well.

One thing I actually keep is a solar charged battery that can charge a tablet or phone...on my tablet and phone i have 1000s of books...ebooks.... Some are to preserve history..others are for survival...to making just about anything.

I place gold like all my other survival tools...its just another tool that may help me when that time comes.

Gold is surprisingly abundant in most Western nations.

I would stock up on things that are a little more scarce, if you are looking for tradables.

I bet there would be those who would gladly exchange a bar of gold for...

A pack of cigarettes...

A few oxycodones or hydrocodones...

A bottle or two of booze...

People who have addictions of one thing or another will be hurting pretty good and I'd wager they'd gladly trade gold to satiate those addictions.

Terminal1
I bet there would be those who would gladly exchange a bar of gold for...

A pack of cigarettes...

A few oxycodones or hydrocodones...

A bottle or two of booze...

People who have addictions of one thing or another will be hurting pretty good and I'd wager they'd gladly trade gold to satiate those addictions.

Those people don't have gold.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Are you saying Charlie Sheen has no addictions?

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio


Don't you believe it. Gold has been valuable, during war and peace, feast or famine for the last 10,000 years. I have 26% of my investments in precious metals and other tangible commodities. In any SHTF scenario, you would do well to have a bit of everything for trade/ barter. Most important is your ability to produce something people need to live.

Gold is money....always has been, always will be.

Terminal1
reply to post by VictorVonDoom

 

Are you saying Charlie Sheen has no addictions?

Touche` !

But, he is a "winner" after all.

VictorVonDoom
To your point, though, I really doubt the Federal Reserve Bank used Germany's nearly 700 tons of gold to make jewelry. What would they do with it? Sell it? They are the Federal Reserve, they print all the money they need. So why not return the gold, if they have it. If not, what happened to it? If the Fed does have it, why hold on to it if it's just a shiny metal taking up space?

If you don't believe that jewelry has a lot of value in today's society of luxury (when I say today I mean before SHTF), notice the price of some large diamonds. Some of a diamond's value is admittedly industrial and technological. But consider this, if they found a huge diamond, do you think that they would split it up and use it for industrial reasons? It'd be used as jewelry. I could be wrong, but I can't see that this wouldn't be true.

You are overlooking some of the other properties of gold. It is extremely acid resistant. It makes first rate heat and radiation shielding. It is an excellent electrical conductor, and it's non-tarnishing properties make for electronic equipment with unmatched reliability. It's very ductile and malleable, an ounce of gold can be stretched into a wire up to 50 miles long, it can be hammered into sheets thousands of an inch thick.

I can go on and on about the known properties of gold, but I can't help but wonder about what properties may not be so well known. It's generally thought that secret technologies being developed by governments may be up to 50 years ahead of the technologies available commercially. Who knows what new technologies may depend heavily on gold? Is that why the Fed doesn't want to give up any?

A post-technological society is concerned with things like electronics, secondarily.

reply to post by deadcalm


Yeah, but like you mentioned, I wouldn't put most of my stock in gold in that scenario.

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio


Oh, I'm not saying that jewelry doesn't have value. But when you are talking diamonds you have to realize that De Beers artificially manipulates prices. Diamonds are far more common than the prices would indicate, and diamonds can be created artificially. If you get a chance, go on ebay and check out the price difference between a loose one carat diamond and a loose one carat ruby. I did this last week and I was really surprised.

And to be fair, the title of the thread was about an economic apocolypse, not a technological one. When I think economic apocolypse, I think like the Fed's Ponzi scheme collapsing. Everything still works, but Federal Reserve Notes go the way of the Weimar Marks or the Zimbabwe Dollars. In that case, the trade value of gold skyrockets, and it's physical and chemical properties remain just as important.

In a technological collapse, like a solar flare frying all the world's electronics or something like that, the prized commodity would be energy. Energy would be the lifeblood of any society attempting to rebuild, be it manpower, horsepower, hydro, coal, etc.

In a total colapse of mankind, gold is useless, unless you are going to produce electronic parts, it woukd go back to direct trading of goods, no monetarian system. In my point of view that would be the best for all of us, not of course the apocaliptic event, but a permaculture like system. Because, again in my point of view, every system is perfect when it's in the paper, when it's a formula, and i mean all systems, religious, politics, economics. But manking is gready by nature, "if i can have a litle bit more than them why not?" Thats what goes wrong with our perfect systems to benefit all mankind.




Systems theory - en.wikipedia.org...
www.permaculture.org...

In a TEOTWAWKI scenario i will have gold from those that do not survive.

Gold will be everywhere for the collecting.

If others want what i have they will have to pay.

And because i will have gold already they will have to pay.

If they want to pay in gold it will take a lot of gold because i will set the price.

I worked in the gold mining business and know how to find gold

pirhanna
I think salt would likely become a high priotity tradable commodity as it was a couple thousand years ago.

I agree. Your survival depends on potable water, shelter, food and salt (in that order more less).

Here in Michigan we sit on top of salt deposits, but I'm not sure how edible halite is (my buddy tells me not to eat it, but I tried it many times and I never got sick). You need it to survive and even though a few pounds will get you by for a long time nutrition wise, it is a great preservative for smoking, salting, and pickling foods, all would be necessary without electricity/fridge.

If you live by the sea, great, as long as it's not too polluted. Blood and bone marrow contains salt if you have nothing else.

Iodine is another important nutrient you can't live without.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


But I think that the whole point that a lot of us are trying to make is that in a SHTF scenario (I'm talking about a complete and utter global meltdown) there's not a whole lot of value to gold besides the "it looks pretty" factor. Without being able to mass produce computer and equipment that utilize gold, there's not even much of a secondary type of value to gold, either.

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio




sometimes i wonder why non-edible things like "money" or golds are more valuable on this planet.

peace

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio


Well then you really have to define "complete and utter global meltdown."

Financial collapse - gold has value.

Global thermonuclear war - nobody left to value anything.

Large scale conventional war - gold has value.

Zombie apocolypse - gold not so valuable there.

For some reason the technological development of the human race reverts back to where it was in the 1500s - gold still has value. Strangely enough, in a situation like that the value of aluminum would skyrocket. Refining aluminum without electricity is very expensive.