To the 1% of Christians going to Heaven:

DeadSeraph
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

BTW... Doesn't that sort of trivialize Jesus suffering? I mean... He REALLY suffered. Scourged, beaten, mocked, crucified, crown of thorns, spear in the side...

Do you believe Jesus said "forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

If so, do you think you should also forgive them for they know not what they do? That teaches you something more than you think it does. Learn it, and forgive them for they know not what they do.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

Matthew 22

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Luke 13

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Matthew 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus himself made it clear there would be few among the many who would actually make it. Nevertheless, the bible also says those few will still be "multitudes".

Don't let the fundie cliques get to you DS. This crap used to come up all the time when I was a Christian. It's pure foolishness to think one sect is better than another, and all others are on the chopping block. One either believes the "gospel", as preached by Christ, or they do not.

Phillippians 2

...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

This sounds interesting, but I'm afraid I don't have any idea what "Episode 1" of this topic was...
can someone at least post a link to a post that will steer me towards the prequel?

reply to post by Klassified


I think that is BS. "Few will make it"

Everyone is free and everyone is free and everyone is free = repeat

We are all perpetual errors and we are all born into circumstances... Sin (algebra) = given area to exist...

death sets us free.

reply to post by Klassified


I think the answer people like this are looking for is deeper than merely where they go to worship on Sunday and what doctrine is preached to them.

Yes, many are called and few are chosen, but Jesus never indicated much about that process except for His teachings and faith. And He the only thing He made crystal clear is that faith must come first.

And I'm not sure who any of us think we are to second-guess God, especially when none of us knows if we will be chosen.

reply to post by Thurisaz

My answer was strictly from a biblical and doctrinal perspective. I WAS a well-studied, fundamentalist Christian for many years of my life. I am now an atheist. I just happen to enjoy the religious forums, and posting from both sides of the fence occasionally.

reply to post by ketsuko

Yes, many are called and few are chosen, but Jesus never indicated much about that process except for His teachings and faith. And He the only thing He made crystal clear is that faith must come first.

I think Jesus was quite clear about what it took to be a follower of his. And what it would take to get into "heaven".

And I'm not sure who any of us think we are to second-guess God, especially when none of us knows if we will be chosen.

Agreed. If one fancies themselves a devout Christian. This is indeed a proper attitude.

reply to post by Klassified


By the process, I meant ceremony and ritual as denomination. Yes, he had plenty of teachings we follow, or try to to the best of our ability, but those don't necessarily indicate that one should be Methodist or Catholic or 7th Day Adventist or most any other denomination.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

I want to hear from the people that say that you and I will perish in hell. I have seen it on this very site, that 99% of Christians will perish in hell.

The "perish in hell" bit, or something similar, comes from quotes from Jesus in the gospels.
Also in Revelation with the Lake of Fire.
I think these sayings in the gospels are all connected to what happened to the Jews in 70 AD (I suppose within a generation of their killing Jesus), with a million dead, a lot sold into slavery, Jerusalem damaged with the wall torn down and the temple leveled.
I think that the lake of fire is connected to the idea of the city of God having its threats eliminated, including people who might scheme to attack it, but of course is allegory about a general situation of peace once everyone eventually become Christians.

I want to hear from that 1%. I want them to tell us all what their secret is. Why does Jesus forgive their sins more than mine?

Forgiveness is granted to those who repent and have God's spirit that is given through Christ to not sin any more.
Sin is doing things like cheating people out of their money, or their wives, or kidnapping their children.
People have a certain amount of sinfulness that no amount of godliness will eliminate because of the nature of the bodies that we live in and the world in general, where one creature lives by taking the life from another.
The ultimate cure from sin is after we die and are resurrected to more spiritually attuned bodies, and probably some other world than this one.
Actually I'm not so sure about the last bit because I think that the entire universe is caught up in this same situation of existence.
We might just have to wait things out for half an eternity, until things evolve further.

reply to post by jmdewey60


That would be well and good if you could convince me anyone here knows the first thing about purity and righteousness and unity. You are promised immortality and that's all you care about. Saving your own ass from the fire. The fact that you keep bringing salvation into it is what undermines the sanctity of your methods. You're only doing it to save yourself. Honestly, I think Jesus should have arranged it so that no person could ever contribute to their own salvation. We could have avoided the "every soul for itself" rat race.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You are promised immortality and that's all you care about. Saving your own ass from the fire.

"Salvation" I'm pretty sure is the topic of the tread, be it from the fire or otherwise.
How do know that we aren't "immortal" anyway?
You can be a shade in Hades, or you can have a real physical body and live in the sunshine.
It depends on what you do now.
I can say that you won't be happy if you are stuck in Hades.
So, being good is what it is about, and others will benefit from your goodness or lack of badness.
Going around giving people momentary imagined happiness by saying they are "saved" will not benefit them in the long-run, if they neglect their salvation.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Many "christians" will go to hell for one simple reason. They distort the knowledge of salvation into a faulty formula:

Faith + X = Salvation

So the individual is taught that; faith + good works, faith + inviting Christ into your heart, faith + making Christ your Lord, faith + Accepting, Faith + Repenting from sin, Faith + Confessing out loud, Faith + water baptism...lead to salvation.

All of these things are false. Salvation is a gift of God's grace. If you add anything of your's to it, it is no longer of grace, but of works.

Salvation comes by believing that the Son of God died for your sins as payment for your everlasting redemption.

The true formula is: Knowledge of Salvation + Love for the Light of the World = Faith in Christ

The Knowledge of Salvation comes when someone shares the Gospel with you. If you Love the "Light" (John3) after attaining the Knowledge of salvation, you have true faith in Christ.

Therefore:

Faith in Christ = Eternal Life

reply to post by jmdewey60


But it seems to me that if we were truly interested in following jesus's example, we would have no problem giving our salvation to someone else, like in the movie Constantine. The fact that a Christian would refuse to give away their salvation, regardless of the circumstances, is testament to the reason for which they strove to attain that salvation. If I could, I would give my salvation to Satan. Giving the most precious gift in the universe to the one person who needs it most. Isn't that what its all about? But no one will do that.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I will take a different sort of approach that might get you thinking on a different plane .We are all aware how the bad guys put on a robe of righteousness (politicians and the like ,even war mongers ) . Well as it turns out when someone puts on the robe of righteousness of Jesus Christ ,we become righteous in Gods eyes .Judgement is then passed over us like the Hebrews were in Egypt .By applying the blood of the sacrifice that God provided in His son He becomes our savior . By grace you are saved in faith and that not of yourself ...It's a gift of God ...peace

DeadSeraph
So I've seen a lot of Christians lately telling people on this site why everyone is going to hell, and only 1% of Christians (or something silly like that) are going to heaven. So you all know who you are, so why don't you tell me and everyone else here why you are going to Heaven and the rest of us are going to roast for eternity?

You really do know who you are, so I want to see if you have the balls to come forward and tell us all (Christians too) why you are destined for the pearly gates, and the other 99% of us are going to roast forever.

If you could include things on your resume that we could shoot for, that would be great. Tips I would appreciate:

-How not to sin

-How to be perfect

-How to have God's perfect knowledge

-Why we're even born if only YOU are the elect

-Why you figure your message of "hope" is very hopeful when you are condemning 99% of CHRISTIANS to hell, and 100% of everyone else

If you could give us all a few tips to get past the pearly whites, and let us all know why we don't belong there, and YOU do, I'd really appreciate it.

edit on 23-3-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-3-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Good thing I missed that whole thread. I don't know the thread in reference.

But why don't you phrase it like this "Why Do SOME Christians Believe This Doctrine?"

And then you could particularly ask us about the different doctrinal beliefs in each denomination. And then we could discuss how there aren't really that many denominations as they all come from just a few groups.

But conversely we could ask the same questions of all religions.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


From a human's point ,it's more about receiving the gift .If someone gave you something that had no value then how much could you appreciate it ? But if someone gave you a gift that would be appreciated for all eternity you might love that gift all the more . It's all about love .....peace

reply to post by WarminIndy


Wouldn't matter, because they would all have the same fuzzy answers that only work if you stop thinking about it and just swallow the worm.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

The true formula is: Knowledge of Salvation + Love for the Light of the World = Faith in Christ

"Knowledge of Salvation" shows up in Luke 1:77 in relation to the line "to enable us to serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him all our days." which was to be brought about by the work of John the Baptist, which we know was preaching repentance.

To the OP, nobody is going to "Hell" see this thread from 2009 on ATS Hell Is False

But not all that have thought they are going to heaven are, for example the so called Christians that killed William Tyndale, there works don't get them to heaven that's for sure. Ironically it could be that Tyndale is in heaven right now, and those that killed him are sleeping in death awaiting a resurrection to be judged on what they do after they get resurrected and informed of there errors, will they be able to change after they learn the reality of truth ?

Personally I know for a fact I am neither going to heaven or hell, my hope is outlined in Psalms 37:10 &11

Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11  But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace

Also See John 5: 28 & 29

AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Wouldn't matter, because they would all have the same fuzzy answers that only work if you stop thinking about it and just swallow the worm.

No, that is exactly why we have so many. People asked questions and formulated their own ideas.

As you could probably tell, JmDewey and I have very different doctrinal stances and never give each other fuzzy answers, but we don't swallow each other's doctrines.

I think if you stop asking questions it's because you don't have the intellectual depth or that you have permitted yourself to stop seeking. If you think it's a fuzzy answer, investigate your question more thoroughly. And remember important things about the Bible, as we are dealing with Christianity in this thread, cultural context of when it was written, how words were used, who the author was and the purpose of the writing. When you fall back on "Constantine made the Bible", that's a conspiracy theory and not fact or truth.

Weed the conspiracy theories out that have been interpolated back into what people think the Bible says. When people believe in predestination, discover where that doctrine originated, who the proponents were, who authored the writing (post-Biblical) and who their opponents were.

And for goodness sake, don't ever think a Catholic and a Baptist agree on every point or are required to, they agree on the fundamentals, the incidentals are what makes for different doctrines.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

That's just a bunch of thinly veiled anti-Catholic stuff that fundamentalist preachers spew from their pulpits. You know .. the fundamentalist preacher types that the OP is talking about ... **we are going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell. guess what .. those preachers are wrong.