The 40 000 year old Sphinx

poet1b

Unless time has made these pieces look better, which I highly doubt, these are some exceptionally well made carvings.

I agree the workmanship is beautiful.

They also all seem to attempt to accurately portray actual animals.

It's partially why this is such an impressive find, the quality of the art, the age and the LionMan being the oldest anthropomorphic piece we know of currently.

Why wouldn't this also include a sculpture of one of the people in the artists community?

its certainly possible that its an artistic representation of a shaman wearing a lion skin much like some North American shamans wore bearskins during religious ceremonies

The head in the fourth picture, is that another depiction of the head on the human like form, or is that another carving? It looks lion like, but it also looks chimp like.

It's a depiction of a European cave lion, they didn't have mane's like their modern African counterparts which throws some people off

Why would be picture called the lion man not also be an accurate depiction of, possibly, what Neanderthals actually looked like.

I personally don't see a resemblance to Neanderthals and just because there is consensus amongst anthropologists that it is not a depiction doesn't make any of us right. I just don't think it is based on al the research I've done involving Neanderthal.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


I double that, it's symbolism. It's a 2 way street, but still exaggerated to the point of being symbolism.

reply to post by peter vlar


Hard to say what they actually looked like, but I could see this being a Neanderthal. The face appearing more lion like, with the elongated head. The nose could have been very different from ours, giving a more snout like appearance. The neck was probably very thicke.

This was a predator with strength more like a gorilla. It probably moved quite a bit different than humans or apes. The snout like tilt of its head would have been an advantage when eating prey. Do we know how they ate their prey?

I think the possibility that this could be a carving showing what a Neanderthal might have looked like gives a lot of room for thought. Fun to consider the possibilities.

a reply to: Skyfloating

Personally I feel that these beings may be the fabled Lyrans.. .this is just my theory due to the pieces of the puzzle a that I have acquired and based on my current understanding.

I believe that they are what we consider supernatural as they may have higher dimensional capabilities.
Not talking from a new age spiritual hockus pockus sense, but from the perspective that if they had many millions or billions of years longer to evolve than us humans (before we were even created) that their DNA may be able to transmit and receive more information from a broader spectrum of reality.

For example I train in a traditional hidden lineage of Kung Fu in which we focus a lot on internal arts and manipulation of sound and vibration. The higher students are at a level where they can completely disable the newer students nervous system without physically touching them making it impossible for them to use their bodies.

I myself am already able to use my own energy to create a shield that can repel physical force, many people who do not believe me have tested it and all evidently felt their strike almost completely absorbed before it touched me physically and felt their hand repel as it touched me as if there was some form of sponge or repelling force between us, like magnets being pushing away from one another. Although this takes me some time to gather my Qi and is not applicable in combat this ability to most would seem as supernatural.

In relevance to this topic I feel that IF these beings are much older and developed than the human race by many millions of years it is possible they had developed similar capabilities and evolved to operate on a larger spectrum of reality.

I have also studied a lot about Ancient cultures and am hoping within the next 2 years to go on an expedition with Robert Schoch to Cobekli Tepe and in my research have found conclusive evidence that the egyption sphinx is AT LEAST 12,000 years old due to water erosion on and around it. Many experts in these fields agree with this.

I have never seen someone with a vast understanding of these things or the qualifications to pass an educated opinion of this disagree that the Sphinx and other ancient structures are much older than mainstream history would have the public think.

Just my thoughts and theories.

Namaste.

Great Post.


I have a question for those that are here.

Is it possible or is there a method to determine the origin of an old artifact.
(besides the elements, composition,etc.)

For example
If I were to go on a voyage to....Lets say Peru. But, this is one of those kind of trips where you load everything onto your car or your ship and you go. To make a long story short, you set up a camp....Do not want to go back......1000 years later, we find your stuff.

^^With that being said, you find my statue of a robot-something that was not created by one single people, but just an inevitable step in our progression if were lazy and have computers. So, in our little story, let say you find robots that the actual south americans have made also.

How can we determine its origin??
I ask this because you can't just walk around "ascribing" artifacts that may be foreign in origin. 2 sub-questions-How native is the concept (symbolism) and the methodology behind its creation(carving tech,geology)?

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
Nothing from the truly ancient past (such as this case of 40,000 ybp) can ever be completely identified with any particular culture, because we don't (and likely never will) know enough about the various cultures extant at the time.

However, there is good reason to associate this carving with the locals, as you alluded to with your robot carving:

After this artifact was identified, a similar, but smaller, lion-headed sculpture was found, along with other animal figures and several flutes, in another cave in the same region of Germany. This leads to the possibility that the lion-figure played an important role in the mythology of humans of the early Upper Paleolithic.

Source: Wiki

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Greetings

Thank You for responding. I agree. I believe there "has to be" a trail of development in symbolism and craft or I can't assign these fact as 'locals'.The alleged locals [from somewhere??].
*snip

This leads to the possibility

*snip*
I'm just entertaining the "other side of the coin"

Peace to all

a reply to: Harte

This is correct.

Between now and 40,000 years ago there have been many, and I mean MANY apocalyptic events that have not only wiped most of the human species off of this planet but also erased most of our history. Our only true hope of recovering that knowledge is through the "Hall of Records" which is essentially tuning into the collective consciousness of the species. From my understanding all the "RAW" information of past events still exists, the atoms and energy still contain that information, like the history of a computer, but tuning into that is something beoynd human capability at the moment... Whether that is possible or not and whether or not that exists is not currently prove able by science although there are some scientific theories on this.

But from personal experiences I have experienced tuning into it while on entheogenic substances. But the information attained is literally impossible to make sense of once out of the trance, Although I have managed to recollect a lot through meditation.

I don't think it is possible to physically determine the exact events and dates of past events, nor that it is of much importance, I think the main focus of our efforts are taking whatever we can from the past and past mistakes and events to learn and develop our selves, individually and as a species.

originally posted by: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
a reply to: Harte

Greetings

Thank You for responding. I agree. I believe there "has to be" a trail of development in symbolism and craft or I can't assign these fact as 'locals'.The alleged locals [from somewhere??].
*snip

This leads to the possibility

*snip*
I'm just entertaining the "other side of the coin"

Peace to all

This is why the field of Archaeology exists.

Harte

a reply to: poet1b

well it possibly indicates the first cult/religion/shaman or woman

Religious behaviour is thought to have emerged by the Upper Paleolithic, before 30,000 years ago at the latest,[1] but behavioral patterns such as burial rites that one might characterize as religious - or as ancestral to religious behaviour - reach back into the Middle Paleolithic, as early as 300,000 years ago, coinciding with the first appearance of Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens. Religious behaviour may combine (for example) ritual, spirituality, mythology and magical thinking or animism - aspects that may have had separate histories of development during the Middle Paleolithic before combining into "religion proper" of behavioral modernity.

There are suggestions for the first appearance of religious or spiritual experience in the Lower Paleolithic (significantly earlier than 300,000 years ago, pre-Homo sapiens), but these remain controversial and have limited support.

en.wikipedia.org...

so it may have all started before Rome

Im starting to think that such advanced civilizations long before the Ancient Egypt or even Ancient Babylon may have existed, whether Atlanteans, Lemurians, could there have been an advanced civilizations existing with high understanding of the Earth's energy and way to do monuments?

Sure, I mean it's the very height of civilization to square off some stones and stand them up, isn't it?

Harte

I would say that it's perfectly reasonable to believe that the Sphinx is 40,000 years old.

There are very few works of human ingenuity that would survive even an elapse of 1,000 years. Only megalithic works of stone can survive being reclaimed by the Earth. Estimates of shown that if human activity dissipated completely at some point, that the only things that would be around for some sort of "Alien Anthropologists" to study would likely be Mount Rushmore and the Pyramids.

The sheer number of cataclysms that have essentially repaved the earth and events of Global Cooling throughout the Holocene show that besides humans weathering out these cataclysms and being reverted to stone age beginnings, it's unlikely we will ever find what kind of structures and technology's our much older and equally intelligent ancestors had.

Adressings the Sphinx, it's really #ing old. Geologists have studied the enclosure of the temple of the Sphinx and find that the limestone had undergone thousands of years of rain erosion. What's even crazier, is that there wasn't rainfall in the Nile valley before 9,000 years ago. So it predates the conventional dating of when the Pyramids were supposed to be erected. By more than 5,000 years!

Another thing, the Sphinx, at first, was likely just a whole Lion. The face would have been a Lion too. However when the Nubian people moved into Egypt and conquered it, the Pharaoh as an act of power likely had his face carved from what was then a Lion's head. That is why the face carved into the Sphinx resembles a Nubian instead of an Egyptian. This would also indicated why the face and head of the Sphinx is so disproportionately small compared to the rest of the body.

a reply to: GreenCross

Did you read the thread at all or just infer a topic from the thread title? If you had read through it you would have known that the "sphinx" in question is actually a small carved figuring called the LionMan and associated with Aurignacian culture which was thriving in Europe approx 40,000 YA.

But since you've thrown it out there, let me take a swing at your statement regarding age and dating of the Giza Sphinx. One aspect believers in the 10,000 year old sphinx seem to gloss over or completely ignore is that Dr. Robert Schoch, when dating the weathering of the sphinx, came up with a different date for each side of the sphinx based on his own data and research. Additionally other geologists, such as British geologist Colin Reader, have disputed the findings of Schoch with one big point of contention being the uneven distribution of the water erosion which gives varying dates depending on what part of the sphinx enclosure you are studying, particularly the western enclosure wall(I was given the date that made Schoch famous) which is thought to be the result rain runoff as opposed to torrential rain proposed by Schoch and john Anthony West. choices tudy is over 2 decades old and is not the end all be all of geology and I try not to take anything too seriously from a guy with a PhD who works at a two year school that can't grant degrees. You've got to take it all with a grain of salt and sift through the BS.

a reply to: peter vlar

I was a bit hasty when posting my last reply, I had somewhere I had to be. So, I mistakenly overlooked the fact that I never tied the points I was trying to make back in with the initial topic. So good call Peter.

I'll use this opportunity to tie it all together.

I wanted to use the Giza Sphinx as a way to compare and contrast with the alleged 40,000 year old "German" Sphinx. I feel that the Giza Sphinx and "German" Sphinx both confirm that megaliths and even small stone idols that have survived are remnants of human activity that is much older than previously thought. This weakens the archaic idea that humanity was locked into a hunter/gather or proto-agrarian mode of living for thousands of years. The ancients were not stupid, they had the same size brain cases that we do now. Meaning that brain size and thinking capacity should be proportionate to their modern counterparts. But in contrast, I wanted to make the point, that the Giza Sphinx was likely not a Sphinx in the first place. So the Sphinx movement that seemed to be making its way through ancient cultures must have not have been influential in Egypt in it's initial construction as a Lion. Perhaps once the Nubians conquered Egypt, they had brought the Sphinx imagery with them. It would be interesting to radiocarbon date as many different Egyptian Sphinx sculptures as possible to see if the originate pre or post Nubian invasion. Perhaps since the Lion Man, is a different morphology than the Giza Sphinx....then maybe they are entirely unrelated?

Also I do understand that Schoch has many detractors. The other geologist bring up valid points. However, I'm not entirely convinced that Schoch is wrong. I feel that many people who are out to reinforce the modern "standard" ideology, are just continuing on the same self-serving confirmation bias that has been perpetrated time and time again. But that's entirely my opinion. I'm partial to the works of Schoch and Randall Carlson. But I'm always open to both sides.

originally posted by: GreenCross
I would say that it's perfectly reasonable to believe that the Sphinx is 40,000 years old.

You have a very odd understanding of the term "reasonable," given that there is absolutely no evidence to indicate such an age can possibly be the case.

originally posted by: GreenCross
There are very few works of human ingenuity that would survive even an elapse of 1,000 years. Only megalithic works of stone can survive being reclaimed by the Earth. Estimates of shown that if human activity dissipated completely at some point, that the only things that would be around for some sort of "Alien Anthropologists" to study would likely be Mount Rushmore and the Pyramids.

Utterly absurd.

Geological disturbances (you know, like the underlaying support for roads and streets , or the 100 foot deep foundations for skyscrapers) aren't going anywhere.

I always find this ignorant and foolish position hilariious, given that we've found ther remains of primitive huts that are a million years old.

originally posted by: GreenCross


Adressings the Sphinx, it's really #ing old. Geologists have studied the enclosure of the temple of the Sphinx and find that the limestone had undergone thousands of years of rain erosion. What's even crazier, is that there wasn't rainfall in the Nile valley before 9,000 years ago. So it predates the conventional dating of when the Pyramids were supposed to be erected. By more than 5,000 years!

Clearly, you've never looked beyond fringe claims concerning the sphinx.

The temple in front of it - purely Egyptian in design - was built out of the limestone that came out of the sphinx enclosure.

You should note that rainfall has nothing whatsoever to do with the date for the sphinx provided by Dr. Robert Schoch - the only academic that believes anything like what you stated (that's right, it's not true that "Geologists have studied the enclosure of the temple of the Sphinx and find that the limestone had undergone thousands of years of rain erosion...") and his date is only around 6,000 BC.

originally posted by: GreenCross
Another thing, the Sphinx, at first, was likely just a whole Lion. The face would have been a Lion too. However when the Nubian people moved into Egypt and conquered it, the Pharaoh as an act of power likely had his face carved from what was then a Lion's head. That is why the face carved into the Sphinx resembles a Nubian instead of an Egyptian. This would also indicated why the face and head of the Sphinx is so disproportionately small compared to the rest of the body.

If a large lion head existed on the sphinx, it would have broken off and fallen down.

The neck area of the sphinx consists of a layer of extremely weak limestone.

You've not read the thread, have you?

Harte

I was trying to make a new topic because I believe this is important to know, I don't have the post count to do so (i think), if someone else would like to, that would be great.

THEY DUG HOLES DEEP INTO THE SPHINX IN 1978!

Basically This video shows Zahi Hawas with Edgar Cayce's son drilling holes into the Sphinx in 1978, Zahi Hawas helped the Cayce foundation and the Cayce foundations reason for drilling was to find the Hall of Records which according to Cayce was left by the survivors of Atlantis.



Here's more information about the Video from Robert Bauval, he also goes into how the Cayce foundation funded Zahi's education in the US. This is all very interesting because Zahi in the media will show (pretend) to be very staunch that it was just Egyptians and no outside interference but this tape and what Robert has to say tells a different story.

a reply to: PoleShaft2013
This thread is about the lion man carving, not the sphinx in Egypt.

There are a thousand other threads here about the Egyptian sphinx. You might want to post in one of those.

Harte

a reply to: rickymouse good point, neanderthals became extinct about 30,000 years ago so if the sphinx is 40,000 years old, it could be a relic of theirs.

The only reason why the mainstream magazines and history books do not say that the sphinx is 12,000 years old is because they say there was no other people around 12,000 years ago who could have built it. Then Gobekli Tepe was found. Gobekli Tepe is the site which forces everybody to rethink Easter Island and Tiahuanaco. Then we look at all the underwater ruins and historical evidence. It is simply true and these people are talking to us but people have to be smart in order to understand it.

That is why the flood was obviously true because we have plenty of underwater evidence.

12,000 years ago there were lakes in the Sahara because of the ice age, there was a ton of ice across northern America and Europe. This age started building around 125,000 thousand years ago and it peaked around 21,000 years ago. This is obviously not peaking in the middle of it's existence so you can picture all of that ice melting, it's incredible.