There's no evidence that extraterrestrial visitation has occurred

reply to post by neoholographic


Thus, we come to another issue where some folks criteria and standards for evidence is more elastic than others.

That's fine. Enjoy.
If it brings meaning to your life and helps you sleep better, wonderful.

Many of us, however, have higher standards.

Any argument for Aliens ... requires Aliens; not stories about them, not depressions in the ground, not anything vaguely interpretive or circumstantial, but, actual aliens.

Give us a body to poke at with a stick, a credible living representative to interview in person, and/or independently verifiable communication/signal from an off-planet/interstellar source.

As the saying goes; "Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence", and, as it applies to Aliens, or any other animal or personality that's accrued mythological properties, like Bigfoot, the Lochness Monster, or anything else, we require a very high level of fantastic evidence, which, here, pretty much requires an Alien, in person.

AliceBleachWhite
reply to post by neoholographic

 

Thus, we come to another issue where some folks criteria and standards for evidence is more elastic than others.

That's fine. Enjoy.
If it brings meaning to your life and helps you sleep better, wonderful.

Many of us, however, have higher standards.

Any argument for Aliens ... requires Aliens; not stories about them, not depressions in the ground, not anything vaguely interpretive or circumstantial, but, actual aliens.

Give us a body to poke at with a stick, a credible living representative to interview in person, and/or independently verifiable communication/signal from an off-planet/interstellar source.

As the saying goes; "Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence", and, as it applies to Aliens, or any other animal or personality that's accrued mythological properties, like Bigfoot, the Lochness Monster, or anything else, we require a very high level of fantastic evidence, which, here, pretty much requires an Alien, in person.

edit on 2/23/2014 by AliceBleachWhite because: (no reason given)

So, what's your take on the Star Child Skull? In my opinion its definitely nonhuman or "alien".

www.starchildproject.com...

Pladuim

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Again, more nonsense.

You don't have higher standards of proof, you just say that to make yourself feel better about being closed minded. When people start talking about fascinating claims require fascinating evidence, you realize they have no argument. Why is this an extraordinary claim? Based on what?

What's extraordinary evidence?

At the end of the day, it just needs evidence and we don't have to have your subjective view or any skeptics view of what's considered extraordinary evidence to reach a conclusion that extraterrestrial visitation has occurred.

At the end of the day it's just your belief and nothing more and that's fine. Like I keep saying though, some skeptics are so insecure about what they believe they have to try to define what conclusions others may reach.

In order to make yourself feel better, you're under the delusion that you have this higher standard of evidence and anyone that disagrees with you is just a gullible, wishful thinker.

You guys in this thread are proving my point.

It's not enough that you've reached a different conclusion, you want to make it seem that nobody can reach a different conclusion than you.

This is really small minded and there's plenty of people who look at the available evidence and reach the conclusion that extraterrestrial visitation has occurred. Why can't you accept the fact that people can look at the evidence and reach this conclusion? It's fine that you have reached a different conclusion but I'm not so insecure in what I believe that I have to make it seem that you're not smart enough to see things my way.

It makes no sense.

reply to post by neoholographic



i was skeptical about aliens in the past... but i do not claim i have seen them... in fact i never see them... but common sense tells me that they do exist... just because we cannot see them does not mean they do not exist.
i 'feel' that they are already 'around' us.
so it is just either we cant see them or they hide themselves from us. maybe...

sometimes... maybe... we need to ask ourselves, do we only have this one chance to experience life as 'helpless' humans on this planet? only for 1-150 years?

peace

Pladuim

So, what's your take on the Star Child Skull? In my opinion its definitely nonhuman or "alien".

www.starchildproject.com...

Pladuim

Lloyde Pye was a fraud.

Enjoy some of the recent debate about the "starchild" as well as some other skulls contained in THIS Thread

Short answer; the skull is human. It's likely some poor child similar this:


The desecration and sensationalism in exploiting human remains for personal gain in promoting a side-show is unconscionable.

neoholographic
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

Again, more nonsense.

Because you say so?

Right.

Call the presses. Telephone the media. Breaking news! An ATS member has finally solved all of UFOlogy!

Um. NO.

You've made a personal subjective judgement in favor bias for something you want to believe in.

For myself, and many others, if there's going to be Aliens, then, then better BE Aliens.
Until then, have fun with that.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite



" made a personal subjective judgement in favor bias for something you want to believe in."

I'll have to say "Ditto" and leave it at that. Your reply was as expected, thank you.

Pladuim

reply to post by neoholographic


The golden balls of light of Northern California, what are these things? Hundreds if not thousands of people all along the coast have seen these things, including myself.

I saw it go into the ocean, whereas others saw multiple soar high into the sky/space.

I speculate... Maybe they *are* the craft? Maybe they are actually a type of species that we are just unaware of, only visible in certain light spectrums?

All I know is, these orange balls are capable of going into the depths of our ocean to the heights of space.

Maybe they reside in a dimension we simply can't perceive, and only once in a while do they enter the third dimension?
Similar to the flat land philosophy. What if these beings are always here, but we just can't see them with our limited senses.

What is humiliating for people, is they are forced to admit that there may be an entire "reality" outside of the little box we call ours.

reply to post by ThinkingCap



Didn't you hear? They are chinese lanterns that got caught up in a weather balloon and there was swamp gas, too!

In my OPINION, you have to be open minded to witness the extraordinary. Those with closed minds and a debunk-or-bust agenda will likely never experience anything extraordinary. I don't need an ET to poke with a stick to know that there is something out of the ordinary going on, on a daily basis, all over the globe.

Being closed minded sounds dull as hell to me. Thankfully, I have an open mind.

reply to post by neoholographic


You said a lot and then not much... There is lots of talk, hype and faked photo's and not one single thing we can see and touch and know it'snot from earth.

Of course aliens do not exist. After all, they are regarded as physical beings are they not? Yet not a single piece of evidence exists.

And then... we have to consider the evolution of their craft over the last 60 years that seems to match TV and films and if that doesn't ring and bells in peoples heads (some it won't) then you'd have to agree that their are new designs, models and makes from different production lines or planets from billions of miles away. What do they do with all their old used ones?

And there are still some who wont have bells ringing yet...

Pladuim
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

" made a personal subjective judgement in favor bias for something you want to believe in."

I'll have to say "Ditto" and leave it at that. Your reply was as expected, thank you.

Pladuim

Um, no, unless by 'bias' you mean basing my position on actual independently verifiable replicable valid and legitimate evidence.

A bit from another of our members detailed in the thread I linked previous:

OccamsRazor04

Here are some facts.

DNA testing done in 1999 by BOLD found 100% human X and 100% human Y chromosomes. Meaning the mother and father were both 100% human.

DNA testing done in 2003 found the mtDNA was 100% human. This is consistent with the testing done in 1999.

Steven Novella, an assistant professor at Yale University Medical School determined the skull was of a child that had congenital hydrocephalus, and the cranial deformations were from the accumulat of cerebrospinal fluid within the skull.

Now the FOXP2 gene testing is evidence of fraud. There are about about 3 billion base pairs in the human genome. One of Pye's tests consisted of a sample of only 400 base pairs. He tested 400 pairs out of 3 billion and then concluded the DNA couldn't be human. Pye also concluded it's impossible for an abnormality like this of the FOXP2 gene to exist in humans. Here is proof that is a complete lie.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com...

From THIS POST

Additionally, from another member in that same thread:

raymundoko

the Starchild’s mitochondrial DNA was relatively easy to recover and showed it had a human mother

Dr Matthew Brown, a Dentist in London, made close-up x-rays images of the maxilla in September 2004. He states that the roots of unerupted teeth are consistent with those of a child who was about 4½ yrs old.

Dr David Hodges, a radiologist, stated that the suture lines were open and growing at the time of death. Dr.David Sweet, an internationally renowned forensic pathologist at the University of British Columbia, was of the opinion that the skull was that of a 5-6 year old, based upon the dentition in the right maxillary fragment

Their DNA research from 2003 shows that it was a human that was part of en.wikipedia.org...

DNA testing in 1999 at BOLD (Bureau of Legal Dentistry), a forensic DNA lab in Vancouver, British Columbia found standard X and Y chromosomes in two samples taken from the skull, "conclusive evidence that the child was not only human (and male), but both of his parents must have been human as well, for each must have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes."
Further DNA testing in 2003 at Trace Genetics, which specializes in extracting DNA from ancient samples, isolated mitochondrial DNA from both recovered skulls. The child belongs to haplogroup C. Since mitochondrial DNA is inherited exclusively from the mother, it makes it possible to trace the offspring's maternal lineage. The DNA test therefore confirmed that the child's mother was a Haplogroup C human female. However, the adult female found with the child belonged to haplogroup A. Both haplotypes are characteristic Native American haplogroups, but the different haplogroup for each skull indicates that the adult female was not the child's mother.

from THIS POST
Some of the material quoted above came from
THIS SOURCE, which contains links to other sources and Citations as well.

In short, testing conducted by the Bureau Of Legal Dentistry of the "Starchild" skull conclusively found the skull belonged to a HUMAN Male child, and that the parents of the child were both Human as well.
Further, the child belonged to Haplogroup C

Despite any and all of this, Pye continued his desecration of these human remains in exploiting them to promote his sensationalist sideshow spectacle of the "Starchild", which due the never ending supply of ready willing dupes continued to turn him a profit.

Of course, let's not allow something like Science get in the way of allowing anyone to believe what they want to believe.

lovebeck
reply to post by ThinkingCap

 

Didn't you hear? They are chinese lanterns that got caught up in a weather balloon and there was swamp gas, too!

In my OPINION, you have to be open minded to witness the extraordinary. Those with closed minds and a debunk-or-bust agenda will likely never experience anything extraordinary. I don't need an ET to poke with a stick to know that there is something out of the ordinary going on, on a daily basis, all over the globe.

Being closed minded sounds dull as hell to me. Thankfully, I have an open mind.

Exactly!

What's really sad is that they think if you don't agree with them then you must have a lower standard of evidence than they do. It's just silly. They're not comfortable in their own belief and they then make the leap about the conclusions you're allowed to reach.

It's like Plato said, a prison.

At the end of the day, there's mountains of evidence to support the conclusion that extraterrestrial visitation has occurred. I will post these 3 links yet again:

Here's just a few abduction cases.

www.ufocasebook.com...

Here's some close encounters of the 3rd kind.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Trace Evidence

www.ufoevidence.org...

We could be evidence of extraterrestrial visitation based on the growing evidence for Panspermia.

Did life’s building blocks fly to Earth and Mars on solar winds?

New research out of the University of Hawaii suggests that both water and organic molecules travel the universe in tandem, seeding planets with “little reaction vessels” that could help provide dead planets with that first, all-important step in life’s development. This is another piece of evidence in favor of the panspermia hypothesis, which argues that life on Earth began thanks to an influx of molecules from outer space. Comets and meteorites are the typical carriers for this material, but this study suggests that even dust blown through the solar system on solar winds could provide a planet with both life’s most complex precursors and the water needed to allow those precursors to assemble into life.

www.extremetech.com...

Like I said, there's more than enough evidence to reach the conclusion that extraterrestrial visitation has occurred. There's just some skeptics that are so insecure in their belief that they can't accept that someone has reached a different conclusion then they have.

reply to post by neoholographic


In court there is the expression "beyond reasonable doubt". I think that the evidence, beyond all reasonable doubt, shows that there is something here. Also, it is not ET or inter dimensional, it can be both - ETs are spiritual (inter dimensional) beings from other worlds.

AliceBleachWhite

Pladuim
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

" made a personal subjective judgement in favor bias for something you want to believe in."

I'll have to say "Ditto" and leave it at that. Your reply was as expected, thank you.

Pladuim

Um, no, unless by 'bias' you mean basing my position on actual independently verifiable replicable valid and legitimate evidence.

A bit from another of our members detailed in the thread I linked previous:

OccamsRazor04

Here are some facts.

DNA testing done in 1999 by BOLD found 100% human X and 100% human Y chromosomes. Meaning the mother and father were both 100% human.

DNA testing done in 2003 found the mtDNA was 100% human. This is consistent with the testing done in 1999.

Steven Novella, an assistant professor at Yale University Medical School determined the skull was of a child that had congenital hydrocephalus, and the cranial deformations were from the accumulat of cerebrospinal fluid within the skull.

Now the FOXP2 gene testing is evidence of fraud. There are about about 3 billion base pairs in the human genome. One of Pye's tests consisted of a sample of only 400 base pairs. He tested 400 pairs out of 3 billion and then concluded the DNA couldn't be human. Pye also concluded it's impossible for an abnormality like this of the FOXP2 gene to exist in humans. Here is proof that is a complete lie.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com...

From THIS POST

Additionally, from another member in that same thread:

raymundoko

the Starchild’s mitochondrial DNA was relatively easy to recover and showed it had a human mother

Dr Matthew Brown, a Dentist in London, made close-up x-rays images of the maxilla in September 2004. He states that the roots of unerupted teeth are consistent with those of a child who was about 4½ yrs old.

Dr David Hodges, a radiologist, stated that the suture lines were open and growing at the time of death. Dr.David Sweet, an internationally renowned forensic pathologist at the University of British Columbia, was of the opinion that the skull was that of a 5-6 year old, based upon the dentition in the right maxillary fragment

Their DNA research from 2003 shows that it was a human that was part of en.wikipedia.org...

DNA testing in 1999 at BOLD (Bureau of Legal Dentistry), a forensic DNA lab in Vancouver, British Columbia found standard X and Y chromosomes in two samples taken from the skull, "conclusive evidence that the child was not only human (and male), but both of his parents must have been human as well, for each must have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes."
Further DNA testing in 2003 at Trace Genetics, which specializes in extracting DNA from ancient samples, isolated mitochondrial DNA from both recovered skulls. The child belongs to haplogroup C. Since mitochondrial DNA is inherited exclusively from the mother, it makes it possible to trace the offspring's maternal lineage. The DNA test therefore confirmed that the child's mother was a Haplogroup C human female. However, the adult female found with the child belonged to haplogroup A. Both haplotypes are characteristic Native American haplogroups, but the different haplogroup for each skull indicates that the adult female was not the child's mother.

from THIS POST
Some of the material quoted above came from
THIS SOURCE, which contains links to other sources and Citations as well.

In short, testing conducted by the Bureau Of Legal Dentistry of the "Starchild" skull conclusively found the skull belonged to a HUMAN Male child, and that the parents of the child were both Human as well.
Further, the child belonged to Haplogroup C

Despite any and all of this, Pye continued his desecration of these human remains in exploiting them to promote his sensationalist sideshow spectacle of the "Starchild", which due the never ending supply of ready willing dupes continued to turn him a profit.

Of course, let's not allow something like Science get in the way of allowing anyone to believe what they want to believe.

edit on 2/24/2014 by AliceBleachWhite because: (no reason given)

You are working under the assumption that the difference must leave a genetic trace, but the changes need not be in terms of genes at all. Apparently people's minds or brains can be altered to reflect alien characteristics. This would not show up in the genes. One abductee was told that a child was altered during gestation. Also, many abductees acquire psychic abilities as a result of their experiences. This does not require genetic changes per se. In other words, the hybridisation or star child phenomena, may be operative on a psychic rather than genetic level.

AliceBleachWhite
reply to post by neoholographic

 

Any argument for Aliens ... requires Aliens; not stories about them, not depressions in the ground, not anything vaguely interpretive or circumstantial, but, actual aliens.

I believe Iceland exists but I have never been there. I also believe there are extra solar planets but have never seen one. Many people have seen aliens and I believe them for all kinds of reasons.

reply to post by neoholographic


I agree, there is a ton of evidence out there, solid evidence, if you know where to look. Career military types, professional pilots, and those associated with the space program provide some of the best testimonial evidence there is.

If you would've asked me in mid 2012 if I believed or was interested in this subject, I would have looked at you like you were nuts and checked your temperature. Then, I saw something on my way home from work. Just like the title of J. Fox's documentary, I know what I saw. It wasn't a plane, swamp gas, or a weather balloon. And it was definitely not a chinese lantern.

After this occurred, I began researching the subject, first by looking for information and other eye witness descriptions similar to my own (three orange/amber glowing orbs in a delta shape which hovered then took off at lightning speed). Actually, I did find another witness who reported the same sighting to MUFON. This took place on a major interstate highway and was witnessed by several people, as evidenced by, all the cars that were completely stopped on the road way with their drivers looking up, slack jawed and wide eyed.

To answer the "pics or it didn't happen crowd" my cell phone was within reach but I was so fascinated by what I was experiencing and by what my eyes were LOOKING at, it did not enter my mind to take a photo or video until shortly after the experience, and I am a photographer! I think this may be why there aren't more photos and videos out there, especially as of late. The unbelievability of what I was witnessing, the adrenaline, the awe...what ever you want to call it, "it" totally trumped any thought of getting a photo.

In my experience, as an individual who at one time was not at all interested in this subject, it took an extraordinary event to open my eyes, and my mind, to the subject. FTR, I have a degree in the sciences and am working on another. I have well above average intelligence and enjoy studying physics and stats for fun. In short, I'm no dummy. To have people talk down to others like they are brainless for expressing their belief in ET or ED beings, shouting for proof, repeatedly linking to previous posts, both irritates and amuses me.

Unfortunately, there are those who will do whatever it takes to put their spin on the subject in order to try and debunk said evidence, especially here.

The multitudinous use of words, AKA wordiness, of a few of the responses in this thread speaks volumes to me. Idk why some people use ALL the words suggested by their thesaurus, in order to make a point. Maybe they feel that using uncommon terms and words, over and over in the same sentence, will make their response appear more intelligent. Those types of responses just set my BS meter off and make me chuckle.

So, I tend to ignore their message, not because their view differs from my own, but because the manner in which it is conveyed is just obnoxious. The addition of their opinion of what the members of ATS expect makes me straight up LOL.

Keep up the good work and don't let anyone derail or highjack your OP.

Seems there is a member trying to do just that...

Nice thread. Every thread with UFO in the title attracts the same skeptics with the same excuses. The feeling of superiority must be like a drug.

I believe that aliens exist and have/are visiting this planet. I also think that most of the time they don't want to be seen...why? We can only speculate, but to discount so many viewings and testimonies is a bit closed-minded in my opinion.

reply to post by neoholographic


I wasn't going to get sucked into another debate about this, but the guy you're dismissing here is 100% right!

You've decided to believe in something based on the evidence you've seen and he requires more evidence.

His threshold for better quality evidence is just higher than yours.

I've seen so much evidence for UFOs and Aliens over the years that my head is left spinning by it all, yet, my motto remains the same. "Millennium Falcons or it didn't happen"

Show me an alien, show me her spacecraft, show me the money, because all the evidence I have seen so far is anecdotal or a video of a light moving in the sky. And whilst it's definitely evidence for the potential case of the existence of aliens, it hasn't yet met my high standards to be considered beyond reasonable doubt.

Night Star
reply to post by thesearchfortruth

 

Well surely someone or something is piloting those UFO's.

well i think there could be a fair case layed out that some ufo's could be unmanned drones. That could explain the high speed maneuvers that have been documented many times. I too am about half convinced about actual alien visitation. When you include the ancient scriptures of many religions and add all the evidence leading up to today it does make a very strong case. I think i am waiting for that one unquestionable event though, whatever it may be. I am a skeptic at heart. But i do want to believe.

neoholographicThere's plenty of evidence but of course you will just stick your head in the sand and say where's the evidence no matter how much evidence is presented.

Why do you assume that everyone who isn’t drinking your Kool- Aid is either too scared to handle your truth or unwilling to accept your conclusions. You ever thought that just maybe you need a lot less proof to be convinced and that is the only difference between us?

When we talk evidence we are not talking about new evidence, but a repeat of the same old types… As example: Your close encounters of the 3rd kind are all eyewitness reports with nothing more in substance.

Here's a list of just some of the alien abduction cases from 1950-2005. Have you investigated all of them? Have you talked to the witnesses in these cases and weighed their credibility? Of course these things can't be evidence because the skeptics says they can't be.

Once again what more do we have but a witness report in EVERY case? I can find millions of people who truly believe in “little people”, doesn’t make it real though.

At the end of the day, I could fill up 3 pages with evidence and you will simply stick your head in the sand and say there's no evidence.

As I said before, can you provide something that is really alien as proof? That is the problem here, there has never been anything truly alien as proof. People believe in big foot, but sooner or later we need at least DNA, don’t we, or is a eye witness report good enough here too?

A real skeptic would say there's evidence but it's not enough for me to reach the conclusion that extraterrestrial visitation has occurred. A pseudoskeptic has such a strong, blind belief that and they're threatened just at the mere thought that there's evidence.

Isn’t that basically what I been saying. The evidence has stalled, and even with the advancement that just about every human on the planet is now instantly connected has not provided anything new. My first post states that we have the same evidence over the last 6000 years and at some point one would think we would need evidence that is actually alien in nature for proof. 100s of people convienced they been abducted doesn't make it real, 1000s of people seeing something funny in the sky doesn't make it alien, just because they assume it is. Can you see my point?

reply to post by HomerinNC


Your avatar is historic evidence! Why have a picture like that if you did not have some idea they existed?