China flexes its military muscle in the Sunda Strait

RAAF observe "exercises"

In what seems to be (quietly) both a stiff middle finger response to the USA's recent push into the Pacific and a result of recent incursions into Indonesian territorial waters by Australian Naval vessels, RAAF has observed Chinese naval vessels conducting exercises between Christmas Island ( Aus) and Bali ( Indonesia) - a first in our nations history.
According to the report above: The unusual naval exercise late last week is considered to have been a deliberate and provocative move by the Chinese that will send a clear message to the region.

This unannounced set of exercises has taken everyone by surprise and as moves go, seems to signal China's regional intent in our area goes far beyond what the government here states is 'self interest based economics. While brushing it off as a kind of 'quid pro quo' to Australia's own exercises held regularly in the area, in reality this move has left Canberra and the ADF scrambling to find a new foothold in regional security matters and left many more clinging to the desperate hope what little US presence is here, remains here to balance the power and so, keep China's ambitions in check.

Aside from our own Naval harassment of Indonesia and a recent spying scandal that have already inflamed an historically difficult relationship between our two nations, this move by China also places Australian citizens and assets squarely and definitively "in the middle" between two super powers, one rising, one aging and certainly signals to Canberra that China is prepared to put its money, military and manpower where its assets are.

I felt it was an interesting development worth monitoring...something worth mentioning as so far, and outside of this quiet mention on the ABC, Murdoch media hasn't reported squat of value on this to the Australian people.

If this has been posted already, apology, I did a quick search and google, but didn't see it.

Ro.

reply to post by Rosha


bugger me dead, that sure is close
from the news article linked in the op,

For the first time, the Chinese navy sent warships sailing through the Sunda Strait between the Indonesian islands of Java and Sumatra.

The ships travelled along the southern edge of Java, close to Christmas Island, and then through the Lombok Strait between Lombok and Bali.

Remember Obama talking tough about China during his visit to Darwin, something about a USMC base being constructed there.

weirdguy
reply to post by Rosha

 

bugger me dead, that sure is close
from the news article linked in the op,

For the first time, the Chinese navy sent warships sailing through the Sunda Strait between the Indonesian islands of Java and Sumatra.

The ships travelled along the southern edge of Java, close to Christmas Island, and then through the Lombok Strait between Lombok and Bali.

Remember Obama talking tough about China during his visit to Darwin, something about a USMC base being constructed there.

Yup..paddle distance.

We have "officially" about 200 marines based here full time at the moment at ADF's Robertson Barracks Darwin, though the number is closer to 1200 full time and hits 3000 on rotation months. So far Aus wide, we have them plus 86 US "installations" including military 'advisers' and civilian contractors stationed in SA, Pine Gap and in WA, including those who run the Exmouth array. Darwin locals aren't too happy now..about the noise I mean, after a stella welcomes at first by many.
grumpy locals
The marines in Darwin as I type have been there nearly four years now on 'exercises' and 'exchanges', and they are having housing built for them on ADF bases across Australia not just in Darwin. 2013 story on Darwin build An interesting deal and switcharoo occurred there too with the Holland group scheduled to build them, loosing its tender for no reason, some suspect to a US company. At this time no sneaky plans have surfaced nor any announcements leaked that a stand alone USMC base will be built here, but we're expecting it wont be long before this occurs and our gov will use China as its excuse for that and a new regional arms race. Hokey Jo isn't planning a fire sale of our last remaining assets for our budgets sake.

:/

Ro

reply to post by Rosha


Good pick up mate, somewhat misconcerting too. Could be a NWO move for China to have Indonesia and the US have Australia by getting china to threaten American strategic interests in south east Asia. That would allow the US so 'come to the rescue' of it's strategic interests and its loyal puppet in south east asia.'

Australian would beg the Americans to come to their rescue so it would work out well for both China and the US.

It's also an opportunity for China to build a proxy military power in the region. All in all, a good move for China, not quite so good for indonesia, a good move for the US but all bad for Australia.

reply to post by Rosha

Recall the Chinese submarine-launched ICBM off Los Angeles coast?
The front porch of the Military Industrial Complex Headquarters...talk about "balls"!!!
We took that message from them very seriously...

reply to post by learnatic


Yes, though I have to wonder then why Indonesia bothered to sign a co-operation deal with us. Meh. It would be somewhat ironic and sad to be hit by bombs and planes we sold them eh?
Deal Link
China has always been a worry where it mattered most to worry as we are a US launch pad along with the Philippines to intentional war in the South China Sea - which China has already said it will take by force if necessary. The recent sabre rattling and 'policy shift' of Obama's did send Asian hackles rising and had already placed us on the chess board as a viable target as we do give more than just material support to US ambitions already.

Not only this but given recent outings about US spying, and revelations of "our" base in Pine Gap's role this wouldn't have gone down well, despite the fact China has known of PG activity for decades and has profited from them happily - until now. Combine that with China's recent back door usurping of our car manufacturing industry and buy ups of massive amounts of land here, one does tend to wonder if we should be learning Mandarin. In most circles it is already understood that outside of a nuclear engagement, in a US v China conventional war, China will win hands down.

If nothing else it will be very interesting to see how our so called 'government' handles this..and to watch just how Australians do react when the news of this escalated threat gets right out there into social consciousnesses.
I dont think it will stop them buying Chinese goods :/


Ro

Granite
reply to post by Rosha

 

Recall the Chinese submarine-launched ICBM off Los Angeles coast?
The front porch of the Military Industrial Complex Headquarters...talk about "balls"!!!
We took that message from them very seriously...

I would have thought the ' see what we can do as we bust our own satellite out of orbit' link would have been the biggest wake up message to Obama and his cronies..but no....it was ignored and the US still made the push into Asian 'territory' anyway and worse, did it arrogantly and immaturely.

Hm...on behalf of those who will/may one day reap the full consequences of that decision, thanks for nothing Obama!


Ro

reply to post by Rosha

Yes, it is called "Chicago Politics" thuggery

Granite
reply to post by Rosha

 

Yes, it is called "Chicago Politics" thuggery

Or, is Obama actually right for once here?
China has been posturing in the Northern Pacific region for many years now.
Remember how fast Japan consumed the whole Pacific? Perhaps that is what he is trying to avoid.
just sayin

Granite
reply to post by Rosha

 

Yes, it is called "Chicago Politics" thuggery

Well..you're right, though whatever it's called, it risks a whole lot more than a regional conflict.
I'm so sick of it.

Ro

weirdguy

Granite
reply to post by Rosha

 

Yes, it is called "Chicago Politics" thuggery

Or, is Obama actually right for once here?
China has been posturing in the Northern Pacific region for many years now.
Remember how fast Japan consumed the whole Pacific? Perhaps that is what he is trying to avoid.
just sayin

Hm not sure. From what I see, a lot of what China has been up to over the past decade has been in direct response to the US/Taiwan issue and US sabre rattling and SCS impositions, so I don't know. At this stage, even despite going after the Dollar and recent market attacks, China doesn't seem to be making any claim to military expansion beyond Sth China Sea or its age old claim to Taiwan, not just yet and even this latest muscle flex up north is a response not a direct action....they're letting us know for sure that they will protect their 'little brother'..though everyone knows China ( politically) will smile at your face and stab you in the back and always plays a long, long, long-game though, so its anyone guess.

I'd have thought for the US that Japan's denials of war crimes in WW2 and the rise of the right wing nationalists there, would have been more of an immediate threat and concern to their interest, but no they keep butting heads with China and well..China wont be bullied..so its like poking a stick at a tiger...using us in Au as the stick.

I have noted with interest the rise today of several articles about China, ranging from fear driving rhetoric, to absurd racial profiling..laying the ground work (quietly) I feel for future war propaganda via Murdoch Press..none of these articles or any Murdoch news stream is carrying the ABC story about the actual threat or actual news on what happened last week.

link 1
link2
link3

Offline for the night ...


Ro

reply to post by Rosha


Just as I was about to log off..a Murdoch press page finally posted this :

Bishop 'not fazed'

"FOREIGN Minister Julie Bishop says she doesn't have security concerns about China staging navy exercises south of Indonesia because they took place in international waters."

That's like saying " I dont have concerns about that plague, its occurring in that park over there.." ugh.
A little hard to tell if she and our gov is this naive or if its just public avoidance in the name of "de-escalation".

I do note the difference between the ABC headline and this one, as how MSM has chosen to break this story to the public will matter and not just as it will form the wider opinion about it. Written this specific way, not her words per say but the style of its presentation, it can be more easily dismissed as well. Those crafty little Murdoch leprechauns....in the worst case scenario, this will mean Australians en mass would not be reliably informed, and so wouldn't know what's hit them until it hits...making them sitting ducks for whatever propaganda Gov wants them to eat.



Ro

This is how the Chinese central news agency reports it,

After the mission in the South China Seaand the East China Sea, the flotilla passed along crucial straits, including the Sunda Strait, Lombok Strait, and Makassar Strait to enter the Indian Ocean and the West Pacific Ocean for the drill.

Focusing on anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense as well as anti-submarine action, the training enhanced the navy's far-sea combat abilities and capacity to safeguard marine rights and interests, said Commander of the Nanhai Fleet Jiang Weilie, who also serves as the flotilla's commander.

english.cntv.cn...

Just safeguarding their marine rights and interests with China's largest landing ship.

Imagine the shock on Australia's Navy's face when they found out (from the yanks) and didn't have a clue!

Imagine the shock on the USA's Navy's face when they didn't have a clue, then accidentally found out!

reply to post by Rosha


Would like to see Chuck Norris win this one. Just the female military contingent, out numbers the intire US population.
www.youtube.com...

Agit8dChop
Imagine the shock on Australia's Navy's face when they found out (from the yanks) and didn't have a clue!

Imagine the shock on the USA's Navy's face when they didn't have a clue, then accidentally found out!

edit on 13-2-2014 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

Wish it were so , however they would have been picked up by the Exmouth array long before any nasty surprises, the ABC article used 'observed' quite specifically and RAAF, not Navy was a clue too.

Ro

Granite
reply to post by Rosha

 

Recall the Chinese submarine-launched ICBM off Los Angeles coast?
The front porch of the Military Industrial Complex Headquarters...talk about "balls"!!!
We took that message from them very seriously...

Wrong. There was never a chinese launched ICBM off the LA coastline fired by the chinese. there were no subs in the area chinese or otherwise. According to official reports.

Seems news is slowly filtering...and we're dealing with it in the usual Aussie way.

Looking forward to Jakarta 'leaking' the dossier they've collected on our recent naval incursions.

If anyone has media links to this news and from as many different sources as possible, could you please load them here for an ongoing time line analysis? Cartoons too as they seem to give a good sense of underlying public twitter.

taa

Ro







This cartoon came along side this article ( below)
Idon snub

Rosha
Aside from our own Naval harassment of Indonesia and a recent spying scandal that have already inflamed an historically difficult relationship between our two nations, this move by China also places Australian citizens and assets squarely and definitively "in the middle" between two super powers, one rising, one aging and certainly signals to Canberra that China is prepared to put its money, military and manpower where its assets are.

Except for the fact that China is NOT a superpower. China is a developing nation that has not yet become a nation that innovates or has the capability to project force outward. They lack the logistical support. Their economy is also entirely based on a GIANT ponzi scheme where debt is the name of the game. In tier 1 cities for instance, it takes about $4 of new debt to create $1 of GDP growth. Also bear in mind even with the distorted Chinese GDP, its current nominal GDP is 2x smaller than Americas...meaning a country with 300+ million people has an economy twice the size of a country with 1.3 billion people.

We really shouldn't get carried away with the superpower slogan. Until China has a sustainable economy and a military with the same capacities as the United States, it will never be a true equal to the US. A lot of what China is doing is posturing itself to hide the paper tiger that it is. Don't get me wrong, it is a powerful country...but I wouldn't get too carried away with the "chinese miracle". China really is so last decade.

rock427

Rosha
Aside from our own Naval harassment of Indonesia and a recent spying scandal that have already inflamed an historically difficult relationship between our two nations, this move by China also places Australian citizens and assets squarely and definitively "in the middle" between two super powers, one rising, one aging and certainly signals to Canberra that China is prepared to put its money, military and manpower where its assets are.

Except for the fact that China is NOT a superpower. China is a developing nation that has not yet become a nation that innovates or has the capability to project force outward. They lack the logistical support. Their economy is also entirely based on a GIANT ponzi scheme where debt is the name of the game. In tier 1 cities for instance, it takes about $4 of new debt to create $1 of GDP growth. Also bear in mind even with the distorted Chinese GDP, its current nominal GDP is 2x smaller than Americas...meaning a country with 300+ million people has an economy twice the size of a country with 1.3 billion people.

We really shouldn't get carried away with the superpower slogan. Until China has a sustainable economy and a military with the same capacities as the United States, it will never be a true equal to the US. A lot of what China is doing is posturing itself to hide the paper tiger that it is. Don't get me wrong, it is a powerful country...but I wouldn't get too carried away with the "chinese miracle". China really is so last decade.

edit on 16-2-2014 by rock427 because: (no reason given)

I see your points, and can only respond from what I know, and that is, that this may have been true before they signed defense and economic agreements with Russia and Iran, but it is no longer true today. Maybe it would be more correct though to say China are one large part of an emerging super power 'block'.
They also do have a substantial missile capability and technological resources that have yet to be fully disclosed along with regional networks close to Au and globally that will support and defend them, in preference to open support or defense of the US. China also holds more US debt than any other nation and so is the largest creditor - and it does have a large leverage in that - and in its buy up of treasury bonds and in its capacity to manipulate the market as freely as it does, it does pose a layered risk that is worth respecting. I used to be of the same position , dismissive and 'paper tiger' view, then I spoke to a Chinese businessman one day and that view changed. Seeing the long game being played a bit better since then, I understand now that most of how we perceive China is exactly how they wish to be perceived. As we plan for 10/20/30 years maybe, they plan in centuries.

Overall, it is not so much what China has that makes it such a threat, it is what it can do with what it has, what it is prepared to do, this matters more.

Ty for the view it brings up important awareness and yes, I agree panic would be purposeless.

Ro