Fukushima radiation… what you need to know and why

wishes

Human0815

OOOOOO
reply to post by Human0815

 

Why do'nt yous throw Fuford out of the country, he's so full of bull crap.

edit on 20-1-2014 by OOOOOO because: (no reason given)

He belong to the same Group, Arnie Gundershill, H-ysterical Caldicott,
Snake-Oil Busby, Project Scamalot all the same Unko but in different Names!

But this do not change that we here in Japan have the strictest Law
regarding Radiation, even more strict than the Germans
and it is up to the concerned Americans, Canadians, Martians and what so ever
to change your own stupid Laws!

Same rhetoric, same lack of substance. Where's the proof?

I take everything Arnie Gunderson says with a radioactive grain of salt... a grain the size of a pea. While I do agree with a lot of the stuff he says, he is a very intelligent man....but he also has a vested financial interest in the decommissioning of NPP's so to me, I don't know if what he is saying is true or something he is saying to scare people and increase the business for his company.

nevermind

dragonridr
reply to post by donlashway

 

No actually the heart diseas is caused by genetic defects to the y chromosome. What has happened is we have a third generation showing a higher percentage of heart disease was about 2 percent if i remember correctly. that has nothing to do with cesium they had a full meltdown sending gamma particles everywhere. Its this exposure thats showing long term effects because even though they evacuated residents took a massive dosage of radiation.

The heart beats based on a potassium/sodium Ion pump mechanism. When the body confuses Cesium for Potassium and puts it in heart tissue, that cell won't ionize properly and contract. ie. that cell will not work. Chronically, this will appear to be heart disease, when it's actually a chemical problem. Also cesium 137 atoms sitting in heart tissue damaging cells around them with electron emissions is BAD... and will lead to actual heart disease by progressively killing more and more heart tissue.

RickinVa

wishes

Human0815

OOOOOO
reply to post by Human0815

 

Why do'nt yous throw Fuford out of the country, he's so full of bull crap.

edit on 20-1-2014 by OOOOOO because: (no reason given)

He belong to the same Group, Arnie Gundershill, H-ysterical Caldicott,
Snake-Oil Busby, Project Scamalot all the same Unko but in different Names!

But this do not change that we here in Japan have the strictest Law
regarding Radiation, even more strict than the Germans
and it is up to the concerned Americans, Canadians, Martians and what so ever
to change your own stupid Laws!

Same rhetoric, same lack of substance. Where's the proof?

I take everything Arnie Gunderson says with a radioactive grain of salt... a grain the size of a pea. While I do agree with a lot of the stuff he says, he is a very intelligent man....but he also has a vested financial interest in the decommissioning of NPP's so to me, I don't know if what he is saying is true or something he is saying to scare people and increase the business for his company.

My issue is when people make blanket slanderous insults without any proof just to discredit them instead of actually backing up the name calling with an intelligent discussion (shill tactic). I've asked several times for examples of where any of them have lied and never get any. These people are way more educated in all things nuclear than me and as far as I know most other posters here.

Taking what they say with a grain of salt is fine and a good approach! At least you're doing so without being infantile, rude, insulting and slanderous. And so what if Arnie has anything to sell? He didn't blow up the place and make this mess so he could jump in! People are writing Busby off because they say he's 'selling' iodine... even if he is (which he explained he was promoting it without being paid), again so what? He believes people should be taking iodine so he gets written off? There are businesses designed to go in and clean up after fires - so if they tell you how extensive the damages are they should be presumed to be "in it for themselves" or is it possible they have experience from which they speak?

People need to go after the information and forget about all the incidentals, eg like whether or not they sell anything. If they have actually lied or deceived then prove it. I believe in one of Arnie's videos he corrected something he had said - this doesn't make him a liar, it makes him in error about something that he corrected - posters on here do it all the time, everyone makes errors but that doesn't make them a liar. Yeah, if all these people experienced and educated in nuclear devastation were taken out of the equation we're left with..... TEPCO!!! lolol... yeah, I'll take Arnie's take any day over Tepco.

Is good to double check any information - is just plain immature to call educated people names and provide no examples of where they have actually lied or deceived or mislead.... unlike Tepco does..... which has been well documented in the other Japan monster thread and is even now archived under "lying".

reply to post by 8675309jenny


Can you link a study which shows this? This is the first I've ever heard of this as Cesium breaks down rapidly in water (human body is mostly water) forming other radioactive isotopes as it does. A few isotopes of Cesium are usually gone from the body within weeks.

reply to post by wishes


You can either read this article or not:

squeeze-box.ca...

That is an article from "Bad Science" which goes into great detail about the issues with Arnie Gunderson.

This is the same guy who said that Nuclear energy was not economical because we would have to train hundreds if not thousands of people to work at the plants....forget about that fact it would add hundreds if not thousands of jobs to the economy...

This is a guy who got fired from the Industry, tried for a decade to continue to work for it and then had to become a teacher because he was blackballed. He has a vendetta against nuclear power. He is the Al Gore of Nuclear Energy.

And here you go with some REAL industry experts view of Arnie:

atomicinsights.com...
atomicinsights.com...
atomicinsights.com...

Rod Adams is a legit Nuclear Expert, who still works in the industry.

I could go on, but you are the one who has chosen to blindly follow an anti nuclear shill, so I doubt you will read those articles.

reply to post by donlashway


You have really bad information. Cesium can't just pool up in the heart like you posted and cause heart disease for extended periods of time:

Does Cesium accumulate in human body? No, it is expelled in one to four months, compared to one month of Potassium:
Cesium 137 and 134. The biological half-life of Cesium is between one and four months. ICRP standard give 110 days for man and 65 days for women. Some quotations: (53+-12 days in children). 112 days in adults. Some differences between population may arise: biological half time is somewhat shorter among Scandinavian males (84 days), not in females (64 days).

You can also take medication if you had a low dosage exposure which would curb the effects.

marco-casolino.blogspot.com...

reply to post by poet1b


Of course it doesn't magically blend...no magic needed. As soon as it hits that water it starts to break down to other radioactive elements, and at the same time the concentration of radioactive isotopes is diluted. By the time it is a few kilometers off shore it is so diluted that you could take a cup of sea water, distill it and drink it with little to no chance of radiation sickness. A few hundred K out and you'd never even notice. It's not like the radiation stays in a congealed mass floating around the ocean.

reply to post by raymundoko

Effects Of Cesium-137 On Human Health However: ”Research done by Dr. Yuri Bandazhevsky, and his colleagues and students, in Belarus during the period 1991 through 1999, correlated whole body radiation levels of 10 to 30 Becquerels per kilogram of whole body weight with abnormal heart rhythms and levels of 50 Becquerels per kilogram of body weight with irreversible damage to the tissues of the heart and other vital organs. One of the key discoveries made by Bandazhevsky was that Cesium-137 bioconcentrates in the endocrine and heart tissues, as well as the pancreas, kidneys and intestines. This goes completely against one of the primary assumptions used by the ICRP to calculate “effective dose” as measured by milliseiverts: that Cesium-137 is uniformly distributed in human tissues. Let me restate that. The current ICRP methodology is to assume that the absorbed dose is uniformly distributed in human tissues. This is, in fact, not the case…It was never previously translated in large part because shortly after Dr. Bandazhevsky presented it to the Parliament and the President of Belarus, he was summarily arrested and imprisoned.”

For review from previous post, if interested in learning more search Dr. Yuri Bandazhevsky.
Thanks for the input.

If it's in your environment everywhere does that pill still work forever ?


Maybe worth noting just like in Japan they didn't want the people to panic, this was the reason for his arrest.

reply to post by donlashway


I think you have read his study wrong:

www.smw.ch...

The heart had the LOWEST concentration in the body. This would be expected as it has a high amount of water pass through it.

The Thyroid had the HIGHEST concentration in the body.

Organ Bq of Cs-137/kg
1. Thyroid 2054 ± 288
2. Adrenals 1576 ± 290
3. Pancreas 1359 ± 350
4. Thymus 930 ± 278
5. Skeletal muscle 902 ± 234
6. Small intestine 880 ± 140
7. Large intestine 758 ± 182
8. Kidney 645 ± 135
9. Spleen 608 ± 109
10. Heart 478 ± 106

Y. I. Bandazhevsky also wasn't imprisoned because he claimed it was causing heart disease, he was imprisoned because he continually and publicly called out the poor cleanup efforts of the disaster. Mainly that clean, non radioactive food was no longer being shipped to areas because the government deemed them as "clean" because children were no longer suffering from Iodine shock.

From another study, and probably where people are getting the heart disease thing from:

radionucleide.free.fr...

Subjective complaints reported by many children included pain in the region of the heart, headache, weakness, irritability, and nasal bleeding. As shown in table 2, such complaints were expressed by 10 children (30%) in group 1, 12 children (39%) in group 2, and 19 children (63%) in group 3. In addition, 10 children (30%) in group 3 (high radio-contamination) reported permanent fatigue and depressive mood. At the end of the stay at the sanatorium, the children had practically no subjective complaints any longer.

Subjective means it was unsubstantiated. They could not link complaints about the heart, headache etc with exposure to radiation as the radiation levels in their bodies did NOT drop during the week stay at the medical facility, but their symptoms faded. This could indicated that most of their symptoms were related to their extremely stressful life and less about the exposure to radiation.

correlated whole body radiation levels of 10 to 30 Becquerels per kilogram of whole body weight with abnormal heart rhythms and levels of 50 Becquerels per kilogram of body weight with irreversible damage to the tissues of the heart and other vital organs.

reply to post by raymundoko

One of the key discoveries made by Bandazhevsky was that Cesium-137 bioconcentrates in the endocrine and heart tissues, as well as the pancreas, kidneys and intestines. This goes completely against one of the primary assumptions used by the ICRP to calculate “effective dose” as measured by milliseiverts: that Cesium-137 is uniformly distributed in human tissues. Let me restate that. The current ICRP methodology is to assume that the absorbed dose is uniformly distributed in human tissues. This is, in fact, not the case…

Not sure about why you posted the other information ?
And yes there is the other side of why he was arrested; the official charges were he took bribes from students.

Yuri Bandazhevsky (born on January 9 1957 in Belarus), former director of the Medical Institute in Gomel (Belarus), is a scientist working on sanitary consequences of the Chernobyl disaster. He was the first to create an institute in Belarus, in 1989, specially dedicated to scientific work on the 1986 Chernobyl disaster. Bandazhevsky studied at the Medical Institute of Grodno and became a specialist of anatomic pathology. He supported his doctoral thesis in 1987, a year after the Chernobyl disaster, and named director of the Central Laboratory of Scientific Research. In 1990, he was named director of the Gomel Medical Institute [1]. On June 2001 Yuri Bandazhevski was sentenced to eight years imprisonment on the grounds that he had received bribes from students' parents. The institute's Deputy Director, Vladimir Ravkov, also received an eight-year prison sentence. Bandazhevski's lawyer claimed that he had been convicted on the basis of two testimonies made under duress, without any material evidence. According to many human rights groups Dr. Bandazhevski was a prisoner of conscience. Amnesty International has stated on their website "His conviction was widely believed to be related to his scientific research into the Chernobyl catastrophe and his open criticism of the official response to the Chernobyl nuclear reactor disaster on people living in the region of Gomel." His arrest came soon after he published reports critical of the official research being conducted into the Chernobyl incident. Yuri Bandazhevsky was released on parole from prison on August 5, 2005, and prohibited for five months of leaving Belarus. He was afterward invited by the mayor of Clermont-Ferrand, in France, to work at the university and at the hospital on Chernobyl's consequences. Clermont-Ferrand has been since 1977 linked to Gomel where Bandhazevsky used to work. In France, he is notably supported by the Commission de recherche et d'information indépendantes sur la radioactivité (CRIIRAD).

chem europe

If you want to know more about Chernobyl graphic video

reply to post by raymundoko


Except for this statement ...

I could go on, but you are the one who has chosen to blindly follow an anti nuclear shill, so I doubt you will read those articles.

... at least your post was respectfully put together.

At least you provided something regarding concerns about Arnie instead of just calling him (and every other nuclear person with an opinion) names with nothing to support the concern. I read over what you posted - What I'd be interested in is Arnie answering these accusations before I formed an opinion - I like to go to the source before passing judgment. That being said, in the greater scheme of things and in any event these are minute issues within a much larger and far more important picture, i.e. Fukushima's present and future effects on the global environment.

However, you don't know anything about me let alone whether or not I blindly follow anyone. I read information from all sources if I see it as contributing to a greater truth. I absolutely believe man-made radiation can be lethal and that Fukushima is as deadly as some are trying to say it is mainly because there's no stopping it for decades and the ocean/air won't survive the continued, intense bombardment.

Busby also showed particles from a filter from Tokyo analyzed with high concentration of Cesium and lead and something else I can't recall. Steven Starr did an excellent presentation which I posted. Arnie is not the only one speaking out about how bad Fukushima is.

A member called NewsWorthy just posted his conversation in a California hospital with a medical doctor and radiation - the real question to me is if its from Fukushima, Handford, both or even another source unyet identified.

Hot particles have been debunked? How so?

reply to post by wishes


You are correct. I shouldn't have said you chose to blindly follow. My apologies.

reply to post by wishes


At this point you want to believe you cant convince someone who wants to believe this is a global catastrophe. Ive explained in detail the threats of radiation and the dangers the plant imposes on us. If you are not in Japan there is no danger if you are you increased your chances of getting cancer. By probably about 2 percent less than smoking cigarettes. Ive explained why in water radiation is less of a threat and why volume is important when looking at radiation. At this point id have to say all the evidence is in front of you your choosing to ignore it maybe its your lack of faith in science i dont know. Trust me ive worked with nuclear materials in a lab for medical research if i was screaming about dangers then be worried. This whole radiation spill will increase cancer around the world by about .001 hardly an end of the world scenario. This amounts to a couple of hundred additional cases though it will be within the statistical margin so we wont truly know.

In japan yes feel sorry for them they will deal with this for about 10 years by then clean up will be completed and the fuel rods will have cooled enough to dry cask them. As for now dont go within 20 miles of the plant and you will be fine this wasnt as bad as it could have been if reactor melted down there was no radiation burns no one has lost hair no one has recieved a high enough dose to kill them.Sea life is just fine the die offs you keep reading about is from changing temperatures in the pacific its getting warmer. It helps some species hurts others thats nature.

reply to post by raymundoko


For the radioactive contamination of the waste water to disperse as quickly as you claim, it would have to be magic. I did the numbers a few pages back, based on the strontium Bqs of the waste water, that shows you are wrong. How about you throw up some numbers to prove how you came up with your claims.

poet1b
reply to post by raymundoko

 

For the radioactive contamination of the waste water to disperse as quickly as you claim, it would have to be magic. I did the numbers a few pages back, based on the strontium Bqs of the waste water, that shows you are wrong. How about you throw up some numbers to prove how you came up with your claims.

Please post them again id love to see those numbers also please provide any data you use thanks.

dragonridr
reply to post by wishes

 

At this point you want to believe you cant convince someone who wants to believe this is a global catastrophe. Ive explained in detail the threats of radiation and the dangers the plant imposes on us. If you are not in Japan there is no danger if you are you increased your chances of getting cancer. By probably about 2 percent less than smoking cigarettes. Ive explained why in water radiation is less of a threat and why volume is important when looking at radiation. At this point id have to say all the evidence is in front of you your choosing to ignore it maybe its your lack of faith in science i dont know. Trust me ive worked with nuclear materials in a lab for medical research if i was screaming about dangers then be worried. This whole radiation spill will increase cancer around the world by about .001 hardly an end of the world scenario. This amounts to a couple of hundred additional cases though it will be within the statistical margin so we wont truly know.

In japan yes feel sorry for them they will deal with this for about 10 years by then clean up will be completed and the fuel rods will have cooled enough to dry cask them. As for now dont go within 20 miles of the plant and you will be fine this wasnt as bad as it could have been if reactor melted down there was no radiation burns no one has lost hair no one has recieved a high enough dose to kill them.Sea life is just fine the die offs you keep reading about is from changing temperatures in the pacific its getting warmer. It helps some species hurts others thats nature.

What I really deeply, truly want to believe is that Fukushima is not going to destroy the ocean and air we breathe - however - based on the nuclear industry's track record(s), based on the government responses (none except to remove/dismantle detectors and raise limits), based on my understanding of the dangers of man-made radiation (not normal background radiation) and based on Tepco's estimate of oh, maybe in 40 years we'll have this dealt with (!) meanwhile toxic water continues to pour into the ocean 24/7 I think the news is 'not good'. Add to that if #3 falls, well, it becomes a whole new level of "real bad"...

July 2011 readings nearby in rain:
search.yahoo.com...=A0SO81LE3t5SiTsAcM5XNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'Byc25qcnVyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--/SIG=120f1glhv/EXP=1390366532/* *http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=jNES9q-2D8Y

Steven Starr presentation:
www.youtube.com...

Time will tell that's a fact - let's see if in even 5 years this topic is still controversial rather than established facts. As far as being in more danger in Japan, I disagree - all the stuff in the air comes my way. All the stuff in the ocean also comes my way. It comes down in the rain and bioaccumulates in the food chain. The system wants you to believe all the high rates of cancer are from smoking and 'unknown' causes - they NEVER EVER admit the thousands of atomic bombs and leaking nuclear waste and spent uranium weapons could have ANYTHING to do with the cancer rates. The system (medical, governmental, pharmaceutical, etc.) all lie by omission on a daily basis and employees silenced one way or another.

One thing is for sure....

If you start seeing iodine-131 coming out of Fukushima tomorrow, then the situation has gone from very bad to extremely bad.

Will that ever happen? Not saying that.

Time will tell all her secrets, she almost always does at some point.

wishes

dragonridr
reply to post by wishes

 

At this point you want to believe you cant convince someone who wants to believe this is a global catastrophe. Ive explained in detail the threats of radiation and the dangers the plant imposes on us. If you are not in Japan there is no danger if you are you increased your chances of getting cancer. By probably about 2 percent less than smoking cigarettes. Ive explained why in water radiation is less of a threat and why volume is important when looking at radiation. At this point id have to say all the evidence is in front of you your choosing to ignore it maybe its your lack of faith in science i dont know. Trust me ive worked with nuclear materials in a lab for medical research if i was screaming about dangers then be worried. This whole radiation spill will increase cancer around the world by about .001 hardly an end of the world scenario. This amounts to a couple of hundred additional cases though it will be within the statistical margin so we wont truly know.

In japan yes feel sorry for them they will deal with this for about 10 years by then clean up will be completed and the fuel rods will have cooled enough to dry cask them. As for now dont go within 20 miles of the plant and you will be fine this wasnt as bad as it could have been if reactor melted down there was no radiation burns no one has lost hair no one has recieved a high enough dose to kill them.Sea life is just fine the die offs you keep reading about is from changing temperatures in the pacific its getting warmer. It helps some species hurts others thats nature.

What I really deeply, truly want to believe is that Fukushima is not going to destroy the ocean and air we breathe - however - based on the nuclear industry's track record(s), based on the government responses (none except to remove/dismantle detectors and raise limits), based on my understanding of the dangers of man-made radiation (not normal background radiation) and based on Tepco's estimate of oh, maybe in 40 years we'll have this dealt with (!) meanwhile toxic water continues to pour into the ocean 24/7 I think the news is 'not good'. Add to that if #3 falls, well, it becomes a whole new level of "real bad"...

July 2011 readings nearby in rain:
search.yahoo.com...=A0SO81LE3t5SiTsAcM5XNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'Byc25qcnVyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--/SIG=120f1glhv/EXP=1390366532/* *http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=jNES9q-2D8Y

Steven Starr presentation:
www.youtube.com...

Time will tell that's a fact - let's see if in even 5 years this topic is still controversial rather than established facts. As far as being in more danger in Japan, I disagree - all the stuff in the air comes my way. All the stuff in the ocean also comes my way. It comes down in the rain and bioaccumulates in the food chain. The system wants you to believe all the high rates of cancer are from smoking and 'unknown' causes - they NEVER EVER admit the thousands of atomic bombs and leaking nuclear waste and spent uranium weapons could have ANYTHING to do with the cancer rates. The system (medical, governmental, pharmaceutical, etc.) all lie by omission on a daily basis and employees silenced one way or another.

Well this will be ok problem is what about the next one. I think if we are going to continue to develop the process we need more scientists and less engineers involved. See the engineers underestimated the maximum flood level. Nuclear power can be made perfectly safe theres scientists all over the globe that have come up with solutions to problems but theres no money in it. Meaning companies dont want to spend the money for the level of protection, instead they design it to what they determine is the worst scenario.Obviously in this case the designers were so wrong there breakwall wasnt high enough and they literally built it so the water hit the cooling unit head on. The reactors should be designed to immediately shut down in a severe earthquake as well. There shouldnt have been this mass panic to shutdown the reactor it should have already been down. And the reactor housing well dont get me started.

reply to post by dragonridr

“Trust me ive worked with nuclear materials in a lab for medical research if i was screaming about dangers then be worried.”

Is this your claim of authority? Are you a degreed professional? Licensed? Do you feel responsible and liable for what you write here?

“…what's important is the intensity of the exposure.”

I could almost agree if we add the qualifier that we are only considering emitted radiation and the intensity of the energies released. The radioactive nucleotides produced, released and still being produced and released are the main concern of those informed about this disaster.

“The only danger was the initial exposure because those were not beta particles.”

Health professionals working with radiation as a tool might disagree; Alpha and Gamma are fast and powerful going right through the tissue, Beta however, are absorbed by the tissue causing damage.

“However by this point the reactor is shut down no new radiation is being created”

Just don’t know what to say about your belief other than all of us here writing daily have failed to enlighten you, sorry, do you read any of it?

“You know so little about radiation now you've gone to just making silly statements. Its not recommended for anyone to eat a couple of ounces of cesium though you could and live.”

Dangerous statement; anyone eating a gram of Cesium 55 would likely die from the resulting hydrogen explosion. Do I need to explain ?
Please, consider what you write, believe it or not bad information can hurt people.