The Liberal Atheist Agenda and the Denial of Self

belief doesnt neccessarily equate with religion... i do not follow any religious or scientific dogma, but i still have "faith" , be it in the universe, in nature or whatever... atheism as it is now, is about to become as much of a dogma, than every other organised religion,... transhumanist agenda comes to mind... do not let technocracy become the new religion

Well, I am an Atheist, although I lean towards being agnostic to some degree. And as far as being a liberal vs. conservative, I'd have to say I'm neither. I can agree with both sides on certain things.

I'm sure there are people who claim to be atheists that say they don't think people should believe in god because it is "stupid" or "makes no sense."

And if you ask me, an atheist has to believe in SOMETHING. An atheist person may believe the death penalty is alright. Another may believe same sex marriage is alright. And may even believe the opposite. And so on and so forth on many other issues.

So, everyone has beliefs on some kind of a level. But there is a big difference from one belief to another. Beliefs come in all shapes, sizes, and categories. But when it comes to the belief in the supernatural or divine. An actual atheist will tell you that they don't believe that there is something that is supernatural or divine, which of course involves some sort of a deity. That's basically atheism at it's core. Not really anything else to say about it.

Anything that pertains outside of supernatural beliefs, such as social beliefs, cultural beliefs, political beliefs, they will have a belief to some extent. Beliefs can be flexible, and don't always have to pertain to faith in the supernatural. And it seems like too many people forget to acknowledge that.

I gave up believing in God for lent.

ahnggk
Suddenly, everyone can own at least 3 cars per family, everyone can afford comfortable houses, have their own swimming pools, garage workshop, fully pimped kitchen, 50 inch flatscreen TVs, full wardrobe, complete gadgetry for all the kids.....

.....It will be an enormous strain to our planet's resources. It's end will be inevitable.

What is this Switzerland lifestyle you are talking about? I think that's something out of the 90's - no one I know could afford that crap my God. But that's no excuse for cultural-cide. And no excuse for harassing religious people yet again - and other people who wish to have free speech, be unique and enjoy life.

Besides, if we are the leading country in the world, there is nothing wrong with having good enough standards to look up to. What good are we as a leader if our standards are utter crap?

I'm talking both economically and socially - our nation has failed as a leader in both respects - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something better.

In fact, there is something sick about thinking the solution to saving others is destroying yourself, especially if you are acting as a role model. That's not the way to save anyone.

-----

Here, let me give you an example. Let's say that some countries in Africa have terrible human rights records. Therefore, in the U.S., we decide well, we don't need good human rights records, either! We can afford to take it down a notch or two, because, well, it's just not fair that those countries are lacking in human rights and the U.S. isn't!

Not fair at all! But then... what's supposed to happen when there is a net decrease in human rights? And who is going to be the new world leader in human rights? China?

The Chinese recently got a seat on the U.N. Security Council, and part of the global policy impact of that is predicted to be less public information available - the Chinese are very strict on who gets access to information or not, and that mindset is predicted to expand in the coming decades.

Liberals do tend to have this idea that resources are finite - and that is a gigantic mistake. Instead of rationing, we should be problem-solving. Believe it or not, we should be taking space travel and developing technology for both undersea and space facilities at a faster rate.

However, the current liberal atheist agenda has put a halt to all problem solving that adds more into the system, and is instead relying on rationing - and what we are rationing is just going to run out.

reply to post by darkbake


Wait ... what?

1. The Peoples Republic of China is and has been a permanent member of the UN Security Council as are the US, the UK, France and Russia (the Russian Federation) since 1971. I'm not sure how this fact impacts your assertion that either less or more information will be available, somewhere somehow, but I'd expect the status quo to continue, i.e. governments are secretive and don't like their dirty laundry waved in public.

2. "Liberals" are the only ones who believe that "resources are finite"? Really? So, in the bifurcated-falsely-dichotomous worldview that we've been handed and that you seem to be espousing here, would that mean that "conservatives" typically support space-travel and development, alternate resource development, development of the oceans, etc? That's just absurd based on my observations of the world; do you have any factual support for your idea?

3. What in the world is the "liberal atheist agenda" anyway? I've been reading this thread for days without seeing a reasonable explanation of what you mean by that yet, and honestly, your phrasing seems like more baseless partisan flapdoodle to me. Are you suggesting that all atheists are liberals, or that all liberals are atheists, and that somehow, contrary to reason, these folks have ALL gotten together to create an agenda of some sort... to do what? Again, any references, documentation, evidence to back this up?

How about one week without this senseless religion-inspired petty insults?

Grimpachi
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

First why don't you tell us all

how you PERSONALLY know staunch militaristic atheists

Since you seem to have insight into this matter.
Are they anything like Westboro Baptist Church?

edit on 22-12-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

There are only a few self identified atheists left in my program, all the extremely outspoken westboro baptist types have all failed out or fallen far enough behind that I don't encounter them with any sort of frequency. Most of the atheists I personally encounter are at work (retail) and do not hold/pursue scientific degrees. Mostly local artists whose work I sell and those who are heavily devoted to certain political movements.

These militants and westboro types are the extremes of the spectrum on either end.

I was asking what YOUR experience was as you are a self identified atheist who has said in the past that you use ATS as a platform to preach your atheism as you view as a sort of social cancer.

I wanted to give you a platform to show off the good works which are done by the movement you identify with.

I do agree with you that there really is no atheist plot to end religious freedoms, but on the other hand I don't really see anti-abortion movements as a move by a church to impose a theocracy.

-FBB

PS
You never answered my question about how I was demonizing an entire group. Did I demonize the atheist "movement" by pointing out that their structure is similar to political and religious institutions?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


In response to the last part of your post: any ideologically based organization will share similarities with other such organizations. Just because a Christian and a communist share similar physical makeups doesn't mean they share the same opinions and approaches. Same goes for atheism.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


I am sorry but you seriously misunderstood my post. You were going on and on about how christians were being demonized and you were adamant in calling out that behavior as wrong but when it came to atheists being demonized you were perfectly fine with staying quite. I never said you were demonizing them I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

BTW I never said I preach my atheism here as you put it but I do speak my mind on a variety of issues do you not do the same? I certainly do not shy away from topics or discussions here but in everyday life you wouldn't know what my affiliations were. Can you say the same?

Now as for your question about what have atheists done for the world. Its a bit off topic but since you must be under a false impression check these links here and here that should get you started but if you go to any of the atheist foundation websites they always have somthing going on raising money for a varity of charities and social programs.

To answer your question of

how you PERSONALLY know staunch militaristic atheists

Sorry but I have never met one. I have heard stories on here about them even you say you know some. But let me ask what qualifies as a staunch military atheist in your opinion. Is it they simply declare that they think the belief in Zeus and Odin are stupid and that makes them so bad in your eyes or is it because they have the audacity to claim the same thing about a christian deity that puts them over the top?

reply to post by Grimpachi


Staunch military atheists are usually atheists who believe that any semblance of organized religion is an affront to the intelligence of the human species and the virtues therein, and that any self respecting humans are thus obligated to eradicate it. Such zealotry generally results in anything remotely spiritual being automatically suspect and eventually leeched of any real emotional significance. Authoritarian/totalitarian atheism, I guess you could say.

darkbake,

You are going to get blasted for this, but I've seen this coming for a long time.

The current movement in our society is toward a completely secular one with the State set up in place of a "god" as provider and giver of your rights. This is the natural outcome of the secular movement. Right now, it's couched in terms of leaving you "free" to do as you like and you are encouraged to live a life of hedonism while the state assumes more and more of the important and responsible decisions in your life.

Once they assume enough control, the guilding will come off the cage.

If will be complete social conformity with no individuality permitted. You and I will become statistics in the machine of the state to be used and sacrificed to the greater good of the group and the state.

You speak of nationalism? Such things are used to focus the emotions of the group to give them a goal to work against that keeps them from focusing on their own personal misery. The USSR used the US, North Korea also uses the US, and the Middle East uses the Big and Little Satans. In Orwell's world, they were Oceania and East Asia.

In this case, they are working toward a New World Order, so nationalism may be the wrong word. I think it's internal tribalism they're encouraging. There will be good tribes and bad tribes. They will focus the collective against the bad tribes, systematically, one by one.

One of my private theories is that the trend toward extreme body modification is a partial outgrowth of the new movement toward extreme social conformity. People are no longer allowed to be individuals, and certainly, individuality of thought is almost persecuted these days. And some social tribes are also viewed with increasing suspicion and dislike. Body modification is just about the only way to be truly different. After all, for some in society, the way to be "diverse" is not to think differently, but to look differently, and who looks more differently than the person who modifies their body?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Well in that case I have never met one that I know of. I had one friend that almost described to a T but even he could see value in philosophy and had an affinity for Metaphysics plus there is the thing about energy cannot be destroyed or created only transformed so your not really gone just part of something else. Actually dude was pretty deep when you got to know him but he was adamant that organized religion was a blight on humanity.

reply to post by ketsuko

The current movement in our society is toward a completely secular one with the State set up in place of a "god" as provider and giver of your rights. This is the natural outcome of the secular movement. Right now, it's couched in terms of leaving you "free" to do as you like and you are encouraged to live a life of hedonism while the state assumes more and more of the important and responsible decisions in your life.

Are you referring to the "pursuit of happiness"? The quest for that which brings us the most satisfaction in our lives?

If will be complete social conformity with no individuality permitted. You and I will become statistics in the machine of the state to be used and sacrificed to the greater good of the group and the state.

Really? Because that sounds a lot like Christianity to me. All doing the same things for the same reasons with the same ultimate reward in mind. The same fruits are forbidding and the same labor demanded, the same wisdom given in the same cryptic manner with the same shadowy promise emblazoned on the front of the same generic pamphlet. In other words, conformacy to a T. I went to a funeral recently, and everyone is given the same words to speak in response to the pastor's prompts. That's conformacy. Everyone is given the same song to sing at the same time. That's conformacy. Everyone read the same book and the same verse and is encouraged to give the same reaction. They are programmed to not only understand what is expected of them, but to embrace it as authentic.

You know what's not conformacy? Pursuit of happiness.

One of my private theories is that the trend toward extreme body modification is a partial outgrowth of the new movement toward extreme social conformity. People are no longer allowed to be individuals, and certainly, individuality of thought is almost persecuted these days.

With all due respect, I disagree. When we are able to change our bodies effectively, cheaply, and easily, we will be several giant leaps closer to embodying the abstract. The art we make with our hands will be our hands, and the rest of our bodies as well. Our love and passion, dreams and hopes, fears and beliefs, philosophies and curiosities, could all be translated into our physicality with an unprecedented ease and clarity. We will be able to project our imaginations directly into and onto ourselves. We would become possessed with the possibilities, inflamed by the potency of what we could manufacture within the confines of our gray matter and how we could recreate it and broadcast it within and through the fabric of our world. Becoming our own gods, modeling our nature and our lives after the image of our souls. The exact opposite of what we are instructed in the Bible.

If that's not the highway, the expressway to individuality, I can't imagine what is.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What you see as something to be feared in religion. I see all around us today. Social conformity to the narrow views of the state enforced above all else. Conform or be destroyed.

Hedonism is not freedom. It's a means of making you think you are free until all the real freedoms, all the things that truly matter, all your actual choices, are taken from you by the state in the name of letting you be more free to do what you want exactly like a child with a parent. Big brother is watching ... and he really is.

"War is Peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is Strength."

And you may be allowed to look as different as you want, but don't you dare presume to think different ...

reply to post by ketsuko


What do you understand hedonism to be?

Also:

It's a means of making you think you are free until all the real freedoms, all the things that truly matter, all your actual choices, are taken from you by the state in the name of letting you be more free to do what you want exactly like a child with a parent. Big brother is watching ... and he really is.

In contrast to serving the one divine plan which essentially guarantees all of your decisions and dreams and trials and suffering were predetermined without your consent, and your entire life is a play written out in every minute detail by someone who never asked what you wanted.

I can see why you might hold "hedonism" in such low regard, given how much responsibility would otherwise be placed on your shoulders in regard to ascribing some actual meaning and purpose to your life. I find a certain freedom in being able to do so. I feel there is much more reward to crawling as a free man than marching as a slave.

rupertg
tip: part of the point of being an Atheist is NOT being as annoying as religious folks. shut up about it.

Oh, the irony... honestly the Atheist's on this site are starting to sound more intolerant and bigoted then the religious nuts.

Konduit

rupertg
tip: part of the point of being an Atheist is NOT being as annoying as religious folks. shut up about it.

Oh, the irony... honestly the Atheist's on this site are starting to sound more intolerant and bigoted then the religious nuts.

edit on 23-12-2013 by Konduit because: (no reason given)

I feel compelled to point out that the member you are responding to does not speak for all of us, nor am I certain that s/he claims to be an atheist. Please keep that in mind while casting aspersions and generalities with that broad brush.

Do people not understand that the liberal/conservative schlock is a total farce? Those words are supposed to be used as descriptors, not definitions. We are all composed of both ends of the spectrum. People assume that if one is sexually cautious, they must be a conservative? Or sexual liberalism = general liberalism? Conservatives are magically converted to liberals if they have abortions or condone an abortion? If someone thinks that our government is over-bloated and needs to be culled, then they are conservative by definition? Or is there a mathematical formula that determines which category one falls into? I personally don't see myself proudly wearing a label, as I see importance in upholding tried-and-true values shared by elders as well as progressive openness to change and social evolution.

I'm sorry to wax philosophical a bit off the track here, but I'm just tired of people falling for these divisive weapons launched at the community by TPTB. We are supposed to lean towards unity. Or is that too liberal a statement for some? (I kid there.)

Atheist believes in the state and that the state can fix things that they don't agree with, which is very dangerous, because the government will grow too large and out of control, then u have the right atmosphere for a convincing communist to seize control with his deceitful rhetoric.

reply to post by amfirst1

Atheist believes in the state and that the state can fix things that they don't agree with,

Who is the atheist you are talking about because I am an atheist and don't believe that.

Are you talking about a specific atheist or are you trying to paint all atheists with that statement?