NEWS: Britain Outlaws Fox Hunting

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
(Save the bandwidth!)

Yep, you're right that "NO human will be free" line is purely opinion with nothing to back it up. As this is a public forum and freedom of speach is practiced here I am free to type any of my many opinions. And my opinion stands without backup.
So what are the key fox hunting issues that I failed to (even though I didn't realise I was expected to) respond to?

And I'm an animal-terrorist? Believe me the last thing I do is terrorise animals...

"Animal-terrorist", must be a new term from the patriot act?????
You are labeled a terrorist now for believing in animal rights?????

And I'm sorry but that bit about the pigs don't make sence.
(ya been listening to too much floyd?)
So what if millions of animals don't get born?

"And who has the right to decide whether a pig should be born and live under humane conditions for awhile?" Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but that's pretty lame mate.

(Edited to fix edit box)

[edit on 22/11/2004 by ANOK]

[edit on 22/11/2004 by ANOK]

im glad to see the ban i think it is well deserved now dont get me wrong im not a tree hugger but killing them that way is barbaric i dontknow why there is even a discussion about it should be banned and it will! they say its a way of life a tradition well im sure it can be modified slightly instead of using foxes get the dogs to kill sand bags or somthing the point is its not needed its cruel and it will stop

It should have been banned decades ago...to say it is an old tradition is not an excuse.
It used to be an old tradition sending 8year old boys up chimneys to clean them out .
Time moves on.
If the fox population needs keeping down,there are far better ways of doing it.


If the toffs want to gallop around the English countryside in their nice red blazers ...let them....Just leave the dogs at home.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
(Save the bandwidth!)

Yep, you're right that "NO human will be free" line is purely opinion with nothing to back it up. As this is a public forum and freedom of speach is practiced here I am free to type any of my many opinions. And my opinion stands without backup.
So what are the key fox hunting issues that I failed to (even though I didn't realise I was expected to) respond to?

And I'm an animal-terrorist? Believe me the last thing I do is terrorise animals...

"Animal-terrorist", must be a new term from the patriot act?????
You are labeled a terrorist now for believing in animal rights?????

And I'm sorry but that bit about the pigs don't make sence.
(ya been listening to too much floyd?)
So what if millions of animals don't get born?

"And who has the right to decide whether a pig should be born and live under humane conditions for awhile?" Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but that's pretty lame mate.

(Edited to fix edit box)

[edit on 22/11/2004 by ANOK]

[edit on 22/11/2004 by ANOK]

Not one of my best posts...I was in a hurry & perhaps didn't express myself very well.

I didn't mean to imply that you're not entitled to your opinion, just saying that the concept of animals being "free" doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

You weren't "expected" to do anything, I just noticed that you quoted my post but only responded to a small part of what I was trying to say. Which is no big deal, of course.

I wasn't labeling you a terrorist, but many on the fringes of the Animal Rights movement are terrorists. There's no valid excuse for such behaviour.

As for the pig bit, it's about the basic fact that animals are part of the food chain. I don't mind being at the top of that chain, but am trying to be more responsible about it by only eating meat from animals that have been raised (and dispatched) humanely.

The key fox hunting ban points are: 1) this won't reduce the number of foxes that are culled, 2) other culling methods are less humane than hunting, 3) animals bred for food using intensive methods need help much more than foxes do, 4) foxes are not cute & cuddly, and 5) this is really about class warfare, not animal welfare (which is odd, considering all the hunting people I know are perfectly ordinary...not a "toff" among them...)

We clearly disagree and will probably continue to disagree, but I didn't mean to be rude.

Originally posted by GEORGEIf the toffs want to gallop around the English countryside in their nice red blazers ...let them....Just leave the dogs at home.

Mmm, trouble.

You see George, it's exactly this kind of nonsense that causes the problem to grow. It is exactly the same as me turning round to you and saying, "These bloody peasants don't deserve a voice. Lets just trample them to death under the feet of our horses and let their work-shy friends raise a half glass of mead to them in their crumbling social club."

As soon as you resort to name calling I think your objection should be automatically void and you lose your right to voice an opinion.

Benjj

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
(Save the bandwidth!)

Don't worry I didn't take your post as being rude, I have very thick skin.
I only answerd a small part of your post to make a point and without going back and re-reading everything i don't even remember what the point was...LOL
Anyway...
I agree there are certain fringes that are a little excesive, but that can be said about almost any movement.
At least animal rights folks don't shoot ppl like anti-abortion "terrorists" have.
Anyway you shouldn't label a whole group of ppl on the actions of a few.

I respect you for trying to only eat meat that was raised humanely.
But the whole point of animal rights and exploitation for food is non of it is NECESSARY. Humans do not HAVE to eat meat, it is a personal choice.
So the "we are the top of the food chain" argument don't realy fly.
But anyway this is a thread about fox hunting, so back to the topic.

1) Artificial control of foxes by hunting, shooting, snaring etc. is neither necessary nor useful. Foxes, as with many wild animals, have their own biological method of population control. They will breed up to, but not over, the optimum level sustainable by their local environment.
www.huntsabs.org.uk... (warning:content might make you think!)

1a) So why no rabbit/hare/badger/squirrel/rat/dog/cat hunt? You see it's not about animal control at all. Just rich folks getting their jollies off.
(I know those animals are traped and some hunted by farmers but not the same way foxes were)

3) I agree and as I mentioned in an earlier post animal-rights activists are working to liberate ALL animals. The fox hunting issue is just getting a lot of publicity right now for obvious reasons.

4) So? (Ow c'mon foxes aren't cute??????) I got a neighbour that aint cute and cudly either so can I go hunt them down with packs of dogs. And I got neighbours who keep having kids, lots of them, do they need culling????

5) Yes it it. Well fox hunting was a sport of the rich and priveliged. And with those nice red coats they do make an awfully jolly nice target for those of us po' erchins 'oo really only want anover bowl ov poridge mate.

We as humans have become very adept at finding justification for the wrongs we do.

Originally posted by Merkin
Mmm, trouble.
As soon as you resort to name calling I think your objection should be automatically void and you lose your right to voice an opinion.

Benjj

TOFF: [Perh. a vulgar perversion of TUFT, as formerly applied to a nobleman or gentleman-commoner at Oxford.]
TUFT: the gold tassel formerly worn by titled undergraduates at Oxford and Cambridge
It is a long established British slang to call a huntsman a Toff. Name calling in this instance and the exaggerated contradiction about trampling peasants would be the word Aristo. Many huntsman actually refer to themselves as Toffs as a proud badge. If you call them an Aristo or Bloody Aristo they will take very serious exception.

I agree there are certain fringes that are a little excesive, but that can be said about almost any movement.
At least animal rights folks don't shoot ppl like anti-abortion "terrorists" have.
Anyway you shouldn't label a whole group of ppl on the actions of a few.[\quote]

No, they just terrorize people, desecrate graves, send hate mail, etc. As you say, though, that's just a few & I trust you're not one of those.

I respect you for trying to only eat meat that was raised humanely.
But the whole point of animal rights and exploitation for food is non of it is NECESSARY. Humans do not HAVE to eat meat, it is a personal choice.
So the "we are the top of the food chain" argument don't realy fly.

Humans don't have to do alot of things, but eating meat is something that most have done ever since our ancestor first picked up a rock and hit something over the head with it. We are, in fact, at the top of the food chain...but unlike all other predators, we do have choices and I'm all for people choosing to avoid eating meat. Non-vegetarians should refuse to eat any meat unless they know exactly where it came from and how it was raised. We get all our meat from a local farmer; he keeps his own free-range chickens, turkeys, cattle, pigs & sheep and sells directly to the public. It costs more, so we eat less of it, and have added non-animal sources of protein to our diet.

1) Artificial control of foxes by hunting, shooting, snaring etc. is neither necessary nor useful. Foxes, as with many wild animals, have their own biological method of population control. They will breed up to, but not over, the optimum level sustainable by their local environment.
www.huntsabs.org.uk... (warning:content might make you think!)

You may be right...I don't claim to be an expert in this field, but I do know farmers who believe foxes need to be controlled for the sake of their livestock.

1a) So why no rabbit/hare/badger/squirrel/rat/dog/cat hunt? You see it's not about animal control at all. Just rich folks getting their jollies off.
(I know those animals are traped and some hunted by farmers but not the same way foxes were)

Many other animals ARE hunted. I kill rats (with poision) all the time, but we never see a bunch of looines outside the house with signs saying "Save the Rats!". Even fishing is a form of hunting. I personally don't kill anything, except rats, moles, flies and the occasional spider, but millions of people around the world hunt all sorts of animals. Get over it.

I think your comment about "rich folks getting their jollies off" is very telling; as I said before, this is about class warfare, not about foxes...

3) I agree and as I mentioned in an earlier post animal-rights activists are working to liberate ALL animals. The fox hunting issue is just getting a lot of publicity right now for obvious reasons.

I'm not sure how "obvious" it really is. I suspect many people have been led to believe that hunting with dogs is somehow "worse" than other forms of hunting, so "nasty" that the leaders of this country were justified in wasting a tremendous amount of time to pass an ill-advised law against it. The truth is that this is simply Tony Blair throwing a bone to his Left...he didn't even want to do it, in the end, but had backed himself into a corner.

4) So? (Ow c'mon foxes aren't cute??????) I got a neighbour that aint cute and cudly either so can I go hunt them down with packs of dogs. And I got neighbours who keep having kids, lots of them, do they need culling????

I was just pointing out that foxes are themselves predators. Presumaby your neighbors & their kids don't go around killing the local farmer's chickens!

5) Yes it it. Well fox hunting was a sport of the rich and priveliged. And with those nice red coats they do make an awfully jolly nice target for those of us po' erchins 'oo really only want anover bowl ov poridge mate.

Reverse-snobbery again. As I said before, I don't hunt, but know quite a few who do, and they really are just ordinary people.

We as humans have become very adept at finding justification for the wrongs we do.

You're right. But even if fox hunting does belong on the list of wrongs, it would come in WAY down near the bottom of the list. This whole issue has been blown out of all proportion.

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye

Ya wanna dance?...We're already going around in circles.

Ah, defeated by a superior argument!



(kidding, of course...have a great day!)

I am putting everyone on notice here and now. Please stop the big quotes or the next warning you recieve will not be the small 20 point big quote warn, but something rather substantial.

Thank you for your attention.

FredT

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
Ah, defeated by a superior argument!

(kidding, of course...have a great day!)

Touche!

(me too...and you too!)