Removing party affiliation from ballots. Small step. Enormous effect.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


That's why I said there isn't any ingle fix but one thing I am pretty sure of is making it to where less people vote would only make things worse.

Think about it this way if you took all the people in the country right now that refused to vote the last election because they felt it was fixed and had they voted 3rd party there would now be a legitimate 3rd party to run next election. How do you think costa rica established those other parties.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You pretty much summed up my answer to Grimpachi for me. Providing the knowledge at the ballot box just lets voters be lazy about their choices.

Heck, at the very least we could give it a try in a location to see how it turns out. See how many people end up voting down party lines, see how many show up to vote, and see how the representatives (and their parties) go about obtaining votes among other things. All I know is that the system we have currently isn't working and has been hijacked by the Republicans and the Democrats. We need to change things so that we can take it back.

Grimpachi

How do you think costa rica established those other parties.

Civil War of 1948.

When the US was young there was similar diversity.

Over the last two and a half centuries the US is stale and homogenized.

Given that much time in relative stability Costa Rica will look more like the US of today than the Costa Rica of today.

If it werent for that conflict Costa Rica would likely already be more like the US is politically. One or two token parties, a too powerful central government and an appetite for oppression.

reply to post by BardingTheBard

If you don't go in knowing who you are voting for and able to explain to someone else why... you are NOT making an informed vote.

It is the "hardass" version that says "Here are the names and offices they are running for. Choose". It is the dumbed down version which says "Here... let me help you... we know you couldn't be bothered to study ahead of time."

I'm just curious, but what state are you in to vote? My ballot has *MUCH* more than just the Presidency and Senate/House races..and of course I know those names. Not just who I want, but who I don't. Same with Sheriff, Mayor and major local issues. However...that's still just part of the longer year's ballots.

If we expect a public than can barely SHOW UP at more than 50% on their very best years for elections to put hours into learning every last name of city, county, state and federal races all rolled into one day and ballot's voting? We'll be lucky if even half of those who show up NOW would come again.

Dumbing it down is removing anything an intelligent person at the voting booth can use for ques and judgement to the decision....and (hopefully by their thinking) left with nothing but the warm and fuzzy or scary mental image the media machines of both sides have worked tirelessly to generate.

Less information is NEVER more power in a Democratic system. Never, IMO. It can only perpetuate ignorance, which, as my siggy line suggests...robs everyone of freedom.

Just my opinion, naturally.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Lol. I know many Costa Ricans that disagree with you. 2002 was when things changed there up until then it was a 2 party system like ours.

You probably need a little quote.....here.

This article lists political parties in Costa Rica. Costa Rica used to have a two-party system, which meant that there were two dominant political parties, the Social Christian Unity Party and the National Liberation Party, with extreme difficulty for anybody to achieve electoral success under the banner of any other party. After the 2002 elections and the strong showing of the brand-new Citizens' Action Party, it was considered very likely that the old two-party system was on the verge of giving way to a multi-party system. Several other parties have gained prominence since then, and the 2006 elections made it clear that Costa Rica is now a multi-party system.

It's wiki but it's true.

When I stay in San Jose I have a friend that owns a hostel by the political offices his family is prominent there and dates back pretty far. I learned a lot about the countries history and the current politics even the stuff no one talks about. Like the slave traders than ran ships from there.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


Look truth be told, I know a lot of people who agree with you and I've even noticed that a lot of politicians down here in Texas refrain from advertising their party affiliation in their ads. Doesn't make me like it and more often than not those politicians turn out to be like tumbleweeds, they roll in a different direction every day depending on which way the wind blows.

And if you think that's bad, every time I meet someone who promotes any kind of "political literacy testing" they turn out to be some of the most politically ignorant people I've ever met. I was talking to a Tea Partier yesterday who is a family member and one who advocates for just such a thing and while we were discussing the govt. shutdown, he ask me what a C.R. was. Go figure!

My best advice for you would be; "Be careful what you ask for because you just may get it."

Flatfish
And if you think that's bad, every time I meet someone who promotes any kind of "political literacy testing"...

I was planning on returning to this thread and addressing it in bulk later but I gotta make this clear before anyone else runs with it.

I have zero... zero... support for any kind of political literacy testing. The test just becomes another officialized mechanism for subtly filtering and guiding the voting the process by the very people being voted on.

The proposal here... is to remove the built in support for "single button press voting" and "sports team voting" without having to even know the name of the person you are voting for. The only thing the government need do is display the candidates and the office they are running for.

It is up to the voters to figure out how they want to know who to vote for. Whether it's what their dad told them or months of excruciating research. Doesn't matter... it removes the government itself from the process of gently and not so gently telling you what parties are "real" or "viable" and wants you to vote for.

If this article doesn't make it flagrantly clear who benefits from parties on ballots (hint, it's not just democrats)... and will fight to keep it because it's one of the core tools in their tool chest for retaining power and control... then I dunno.

Justice concludes black voters need Democratic Party

Voters in this small city decided overwhelmingly last year to do away with the party affiliation of candidates in local elections, but the Obama administration recently overruled the electorate and decided that equal rights for black voters cannot be achieved without the Democratic Party.

The Justice Department’s ruling, which affects races for City Council and mayor, went so far as to say partisan elections are needed so that black voters can elect their “candidates of choice” - identified by the department as those who are Democrats and almost exclusively black.

BardingTheBard
The proposal here... is to remove the built in support for "single button press voting" and "sports team voting" without having to even know the name of the person you are voting for. The only thing the government need do is display the candidates and the office they are running for.

I'm not so sure that's all the government "need do." Do you have any idea how long it will take for some of these voters to complete their ballots and what that will do to the already ridiculously long lines at polling stations? For starters, we're going to need some accompanying legislation that mandates that the polling stations remain open for at least a month or more. More than likely, we're also going to need to figure out which taxes are going to be raised to fund these prolonged elections.

BardingTheBard It is up to the voters to figure out how they want to know who to vote for.

Are you saying that we should put this up for a vote? I could be wrong but I suspect that the majority of the voters would reject this idea.

I haven't been a 'party line" voter in the past but after this recent shutdown debacle, I planning on exercising my right to do just that very thing in the future. Right now, I don't think I'll ever vote for another republican, period.

BardingTheBard
If this article doesn't make it flagrantly clear who benefits from parties on ballots (hint, it's not just democrats)... and will fight to keep it because it's one of the core tools in their tool chest for retaining power and control... then I dunno.

Justice concludes black voters need Democratic Party

Voters in this small city decided overwhelmingly last year to do away with the party affiliation of candidates in local elections, but the Obama administration recently overruled the electorate and decided that equal rights for black voters cannot be achieved without the Democratic Party.

The Justice Department’s ruling, which affects races for City Council and mayor, went so far as to say partisan elections are needed so that black voters can elect their “candidates of choice” - identified by the department as those who are Democrats and almost exclusively black.

Not sure, but I think it said this happened in N. Carolina. While I admit that I don't know all the details surrounding this ruling, when it comes to civil rights issues and N. Carolina, I tend to lean in favor of the U.S. Justice Dept..