NEWS: US Brokers Continental Corporate Takeover: Update March 22, 2005

Originally posted by billybob
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and, incidently, what does the european union have to do with this? i keep hearing from 'conservatives' that the europeans are 'socialist', and that's bad. so are these international trade agreements 'socialist' or 'capitalist' in your opinion?

I really fail to see what you are trying to point out with Disney having the copyright of Mickey for eternity.... i thought they did already...since it was them who came up with the idea in the first place, and they have had this copyright for decades now.... Anyways...

I bring up what is happening in Europe because every European nation is independent, yet they all form part of the European Union...the same thing that NAFTA does with Canada, the US, and Mexico.

BTW, most European countries are not completly socialist, they are a mix of democracy and socialism, and capitalism is the economic system most of them, if not all European countries use.

About your question of why they have to come up with any new laws, the anwser is simple... These three countries, Canada, the US, and Mexico, started an agreement through NAFTA, but as always laws have to change as they agree on what is needed for this new trade system. I don't even know why I have to explain this, i thought it was common knowledge, laws do not remain the same throughtout the history of a nation...laws change as times and the needs of those involved change.



[edit on 23-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by the_oleneo
That is the second great step to an American Union. The first great step was the signing of NAFTA more than 10 years ago. The FTAA will compliment NAFTA-Plus with the next few stepping-stones to a full American Union from the topmost Alaska to the very end of Cape Horn.

Hmmm. IMO - the FTAA is dead and NAFTA super-sized is the fall-back position. ...Brazil, Venezuela and most South American countries are looking at alternate arrangements and allies.

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No, sir, the FTAA is still alive. The Co-chairs are planning to meet next week to continue discussing. See the link below:
www.ftaa-alca.org...

So if we embark on a multi-lateral foreign policy we have subjugated our sovereignty to loathsome foreign interests but if we give our sovereignty away behind closed doors to multinational corporations we are a savvy trading block?

Will it be legal now to purchase prescription drugs manufactured in the U. S. and sold in Canada? Would allowing seniors to purchase and re-import their meds be such a terrible injustice to the pharmaceutical companies? Is this particular trade barrier “good” regulation or “nuisance” regulation?

Originally posted by the_oleneo

Originally posted by soficrow

Hmmm. IMO - the FTAA is dead and NAFTA super-sized is the fall-back position. ...Brazil, Venezuela and most South American countries are looking at alternate arrangements and allies.

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No, sir, the FTAA is still alive. The Co-chairs are planning to meet next week to continue discussing. See the link below:
www.ftaa-alca.org...

Wishful thinking IMO. See The Vagabond's editorial - it's a good one:

South America Moves Left, BRICS Moves West, America Better Be Sharp

Originally posted by Muaddib
I bring up what is happening in Europe because every European nation is independent, yet they all form part of the European Union...the same thing that NAFTA does with Canada, the US, and Mexico.

have you asked very many europeans how independent they feel since the consolidation of the union? i know many are embroiled in disputes over national law vs. trade union dictates.
this is north america. here in canada, free trade has been used to punish the softwood lumber industry.
you give up soveriegnty when you enter into these agreements. your country becomes a corporate division.

Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW, most European countries are not completly socialist, they are a mix of democracy and socialism, and capitalism is the economic system most of them, if not all European countries use.

a mix, eh? hmmmmmm. seems like a good idea. sounds like canada .

Originally posted by Muaddib
laws do not remain the same throughtout the history of a nation...laws change as times and the needs of those involved change.

nation? what's that? an archaic expression, no doubt.

Originally posted by Alexodin
Would allowing seniors to purchase and re-import their meds be such a terrible injustice to the pharmaceutical companies? Is this particular trade barrier “good” regulation or “nuisance” regulation?

or is it plain old protection racket/racketeering using legislation instead of thugs?

Seeing a billybob post today shooting an issue square between the eyes fills my heart with something that has elements of near joy.

Protectionism is an interesting thing. The mob and other gangs have always enjoyed the benefits of payment for their 'protection' services. And, counterintuitively for a nation perceived by some to be the pinnacle of capitalism and market efficiencies, the US is the most 'protected' economy of all.

Originally posted by billybob

have you asked very many europeans how independent they feel since the consolidation of the union?

In Europe people fight and riot for almost anything you can think of, including soccer. In Spain in the 80s you would still hear people in the bars argue about whether or not Franco was good for Spain, believe it or not, quite a good amount of spaniards would argue with you if you said that Franco was an evil bastard. BTW, i do not think president Bush is even close to becoming another Franco.

Originally posted by billybob

i know many are embroiled in disputes over national law vs. trade union dictates.
this is north america. here in canada, free trade has been used to punish the softwood lumber industry.
you give up soveriegnty when you enter into these agreements. your country becomes a corporate division.

How exactly do you give up sovereignty when entering in these agreements? Has Spain, or France given up their sovereingty when they agreed to be part of the European union? Not that I know of.

Originally posted by billybob
a mix, eh? hmmmmmm. seems like a good idea. sounds like canada

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Not really, it seems that after all this time the European people are forgetting the lessons of history, since most of them are falling for the ideologies of a doctrine that only brought chaos to the world. The mentality of many Europeans, and also quite a few people in the US, is that Capitalism is causing all the problems in the world, i guess these people want to give up capitalism for communism now.

Originally posted by billybob
nation? what's that? an archaic expression, no doubt.

So the United States is not a nation huh?...go cross the border into Canada, or into the US if you are from Canada, and try to return to your country without a passport, and without saying or giving any other proof that you are citizen of your country...let's put it to the test and see whether or not the US and Canada are independent nations.....

Originally posted by Muaddib

How exactly do you give up sovereignty when entering in these agreements? Has Spain, or France given up their sovereingty when they agreed to be part of the European union? Not that I know of.

The EU agreement is NOT the same as NAFTA or NAFTA super-sized. ...and NAFTA terms already involve giving up sovereignty. It's anybody's guess what else is on the table, but it sure looks to involve an expansion of the Patriot Act and under certain circumstances, an acceptance of NORTHCOM's imperative.

The mentality of many Europeans, and also quite a few people in the US, is that Capitalism is causing all the problems in the world, i guess these people want to give up capitalism for communism now.

No Maudib - it's not an either/or situation - and FYI, some of us think that capitalism and communism are the same thing. ...You are promoting the fanatical divide.

...let's put it to the test and see whether or not the US and Canada are independent nations.....

The tests already have been conducted - follow the links I posted above and you will see that corporations have MORE sovereignty than nations under NAFTA.

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billybob
”or is it plain old protection racket/racketeering using legislation instead of thugs?”

What it is, is plain.



MaskedAvatar
”….counterintuitively...”

…..is a word I like to see.


This may be an issue where left and right can recognize that we all stand on common ground. North American defense prerogatives have been coupled with this legislation, so to oppose is to oppose North American defense. It would be better if the issues were considered separately. Trade and defense, though related, are not synonymous.

Originally posted by soficrow

No Maudib - it's not an either/or situation - and FYI, some of us think that capitalism and communism are the same thing. ...You are promoting the fanatical divide.
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Actually the fanatical divide is to actually think that Capitalism and Communism are the same thing.... You can't really support this idea that they are the same thing, it is illogical....

In communism the state/government has total control over manufacturing, investment and trade...while in Capitalism private citizens can have power over manufacturing, investment and trade... in communism a regular citizen cannot have any business with any other country or with individuals in other countries.....while because of capitalism small businesses do make business with people who live in other countries and are also capitalists.

[edit on 23-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Alexodin

North American defense prerogatives have been coupled with this legislation, ...

It would be better if the issues were considered separately. Trade and defense, though related, are not synonymous.

There's the crux of the matter. ...As it stands, "defense" is a higher priority for discussion and negotiation than "trade," as if the two are synonymous in "Fortress North America." Perhaps there is a place for talking defense in NAFTA - but it shouldn't be the focal point.

Seems NAFTA is set to morph into another arm of the security octopus clutching the USA - the "Independent Task Force on the Future of North America" doing background work on NAFTA-Plus is heavy on security and light on trade. ...Task Force members include former Mexican Finance Secretary Pedro Aspe, former Canadian Deputy John Manley, and former Massachusetts Governor William Weld.

The Task Force issued its preliminary report last week - the dominant theme is the creation of a North American defense shield - and the task force clearly views NAFTA as a vehicle for creating Fortress North America.

Much of the report could have been written by the US Department of Homeland Security - "The governments of Canada, Mexico and the United States should articulate as their long range goal a common security perimeter for North America." .....It calls for a liaison with Mexico's armed forces - and a tri-national threat intelligence center. It proposes a 3-country "biometric" border pass to allow Canadians, Mexicans and Americans to move easily around North America. Plus a "North American energy and natural resources security strategy."

Ahem. NAFTA is supposed to be a trade agreement. But then again, it never was just that.

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Originally posted by soficrow
South America Moves Left, BRICS Moves West, America Better Be Sharp

It will fail, nonetheless. The FTAA is too important to NAFTA backers and they're very determined to make the two American continents into one huge trade union. It is already planned. Let the countries of South America experiment among themselves for awhile being "independently" from the North American sphere of influence. At that point, the FTAA backers are already laying the groundworks for the further destabilization of South America. Argentina, particularly the collapse of its economy and its financial system, was the first experiment, a preview of what are to come for the South American countries.

The Central American countries are leaning toward NAFTA/FTAA but wanted to see if they can be self-sufficient, financially, with their own Central American trade framework.

It all come down to which trade union have the MOST money, the MOST resources, the MOST political leverages, the MOST powerful economic-security factors, and the MOST opportunities to control the American continents.

See:

Canada's Patriot Act

The way the Bush administration is handling the "illegal immigration" issue illustrates that this plan is almost implemented.

Ie., see: GPS for Illegal Mexican Immigrants

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