Lets think about it for a moment...

I live in the past-always have and always will-it is my profession. I have very little interest in current events, such as partisan political struggles, domestic agendas, or social issues. Seldom am I involved in anything that is not a decade or more in the past.

The events of September 11th are an exception in that I have ties to the region in question along with large hard files on many of the players. Along with that comes 3 decades of dealing with the American government in the areas of intelligence, both domestic and foreign, along with law enforcement and incarceration issues. I have contacts in every single country in the world who are in the same occupation as I am.

Therefore, on ATS I always speak from a position of strength. Plainly put I know what I am talking about-or I will say this is not my area of expertise. I don't understand cyber terrorism in a technical sense, however I am well schooled in it's application and impact. Surly, you can see for yourself the number of posters here who simply post with nothing but emotion, and very few facts.

In a rare event I was highly effected, emotionally, upon on studying the facts of attack on the US Cole. I knew what was coming and was simply stunned that President Clinton, due to his failings to control his personal impulses, was powerless to respond due to political concerns, of an upcoming election.

I already had a large, personal knowledge of not only of Al'qida, but years of study of Osama bin Laden and his motivations and determination to strike the American homeland. At the time it is quite likely that 99.9% of American citizens even knew he existed, much less a threat. I remember President Clinton saying as he watched events unfold on the morning of September 11th how " my entire world drained out of me and I was left in a void of depression and guilt at the thought that I allowed this to happen"

I felt the exact same way-and still do. Perhaps that will give you an understanding of why I post the things I do.

reply to post by spooky24


I am going to assume that you are who you say you are, and because of your background you probably know something that I don't. In my attempts to understand what happened on 9/11, I read and watched everything I could get my hands on.

My opinion is mainly based on three books.... Disconnecting the Dots: How 9/11 Was Allowed to Happen,
The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation and
Another Nineteen: Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects.

After I read these books and researched some things in these books that I didn't know, the incompetence/coincidence theory is an insult to my intelligence.

People that tell me incompetence/coincidences was responsible for all the f*ck ups and that the (in your face coverup) is to hide the incompetence from the American people and nothing more, these people, are a perfect fit for the "nukes in the basement, lasers from outer space, vicsims, and TV fakery" category as far as I'm concerned.

I would love your opinion about these books if you read them, if not then I highly recommend all three books.

reply to post by whatsecret


i want you to think about this one real good real real good .

go to my thread on what time did you hear about 9-11 and read the replys from serious members there and have a long hard think about the size of the operation and people involved .

in news rooms they have all the clocks of the world well they do on t.v anyway and nobody noticed that one .

and notice my thread count some have vanished ??? wonder why

I am aware of Kevin Fenton's work however 'the wall' that existed between the American intelligence investigators(CIA) and criminal investigators(FBI) has been in place since the forming of the two agency's and is still in place today. This is not by choice-our legal system requires that FBI agents can't share, or exchange information from intelligence operators because this would taint any foreseeable criminal prosecution-because the CIA is not bound by the restraints of Miranda in field operations. Better said any information given FBI agents by CIA operators is considered hearsay-and would not be allowed in any American court room.

Mr Fenton knows this and any dubious connection of wrongdoing between the agency's exchange of information in not their fault-nor does it mean they are incompetent-if you want to blame someone start with the Founding Fathers as they wrote the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments. This has been a problem for decades and using this difficult to explain procedure as any kind of complacency that lead to the attacks is ridiculous-and again Mr Fenton knows this.

I can't fault him for wanting to make a buck by highlighting this problem and there is no doubt his publishers edited his work to make it controversial in order for it to stand out and sell. Persons who have never been involved in the publishing business just has no idea how it has changed since broadband went into the mainstream around the millennium. Basically, it is now in the tabloid business and since the 2007 economic collapse it has further reduced it's self to that of the British press.

As far as the other works the 9/11 commission was neutered by partisan politics to the point that it was flawed from the start and doomed to fail. A quick peek at what is going on in Washington today is proof of how party politics can destroy any good intentions.

After the complete confessions of Ramzi Bin Al-Shibh and Khalid Sheik Mohammed in 2007 the timeline of the attacks, and the individuals involved, the financing along with the areas of contact is solid and irrefutable. Any work that starts with the byline:

" Although a number of books have demonstrated that the official accounts are false"

I'm not going to waste my time on.

reply to post by spooky24

I am aware of Kevin Fenton's work however 'the wall' that existed between the American intelligence investigators(CIA) and criminal investigators(FBI) has been in place since the forming of the two agency's and is still in place today. This is not by choice-our legal system requires that FBI agents can't share, or exchange information from intelligence operators because this would taint any foreseeable criminal prosecution-because the CIA is not bound by the restraints of Miranda in field operations. Better said any information given FBI agents by CIA operators is considered hearsay-and would not be allowed in any American court room.

I agree with Kevin Ryan that in order to debunk the official story we should believe as much of that story as possible. To me it means that if you actually know what the official story is then you should know that it debunks itself.

Most people think that the information sharing policy prevented the field agents to do what had to be done. But according to the government that is not true.

Page 35

It is clear, therefore, that the information sharing failures in the summer of 2001 were not the result of legal barriers but of the 'failure of individuals to understand that the barriers did not apply to the facts at hand. Simply put, there was no legal reason why the information could not have been shared

In America ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it. This obviously did not apply to the individuals who did not understand the law. Unless you know if anybody (other than the victims and their families) had any consequences for not sharing the information because of their ignorance of the law?

if you want to blame someone start with the Founding Fathers as they wrote the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments.

That's just nonsense. The Constitution had nothing to do with 9/11. Amendments to The Constitution made it a perfect instructions manual for how to keep the people free.

You can keep blaming the policy if you want but until we have accountability in government all we are doing is rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

I do think you understand that so much of this is trying to see how many goats can dance on a pinhead. The whole thing about the miscommunication, and or, misinterpretation of policy has simply been done to death. I don't recall anything sinister about it in Mr. Fenton's work. You can't use the unfair advantage of hindsight to criticize the actions of individuals without taking in to consideration all the other events going on at the same time-and putting them into context.

A good example of that would be the biggest thing going on in America on September 10th was the "Passenger bill of rights debate" in both houses of Congress. People were screaming about airport searches being to intrusive and violating their rights. When that is taken into consideration it alters the view of complacency of the screeners in DC and Boston.

Another good example is the infamous Phoenix memo. The Justice department nixed any further investigation simply because 'searching and investigating middle eastern men in all flight schools' was considered 'racial profiling' a huge issue at the time and a landmark Supreme court decision was expected soon(that was later dropped) and it was an extremely important issue at the time. The Justice department was not being incompetent-they were enforcing policy.



This is one of the most fundamental guides in historical research. You can't go back to 1933 and say the German people were stupid for giving the Fuhrer the Chancellorship without recognizing that the people were desperate for Jobs, Alcohol and cigarettes-that is what he promised them-and that is what he delivered.

As far as the constitution I stand by what I said and even deepen it as about 75% of America's social problems are due to the vagueness of the documents- Abortion, gun laws, discrimination and many more.

The guidelines in place for different departments of government are policy's-not laws. Failure to follow proper procedures without malice is not illegal as it can be interpreted as unintentional.

reply to post by spooky24


Well, I disagree with every word in your last reply. I'm not saying you're wrong, I think we are looking at it from different points of view.

I enjoyed this conversation though, thanks.