Liberalism Through The Eyes of a Proud Liberal

reply to post by Bybyots


I'm not sure how this got ceded into a "retro Wednesday" tangent - as the divide between conservatives and liberals is the main factor effecting not only American politics, but the politics of nearly every nation on earth.

Basically speaking - even the problems in Egypt today play out along the same lines.

As someone who took zero interest in reality until I was 21 or 22 the lables have always appeared meaningless. It's not liberalism to not judge a book by its cover, that lesson is in the bible, and it's a good one. Stereotypes are the reason lables exist, lables are stereotypes given life, and that perception becomes reality.

I can't identify with any group myself, I hate libertarians because they're irresponsible with life, and don't realize that society exists because we wanted to escape natural selection. I can't identify with neocons cause they're obsessed with what they perceive as degeneracy (while they cry foul about 'N----- and Judaism, which is degenerate in itself). I can't identify with liberals because I can see that there are differences in races and cultures. At the same time, culture to me, seems to be the rope that binds you to your slavery, or your slavery is what binds you to the culture. It matters not which comes first. We feel safer with our own kind regardless of what we believe in our heads. It is instinct to seek similarities in the other, and you can see it in babies.

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by Hefficide

 

The perfect definition of a criminal, be he rich or poor, someone who wants something for nothing.

That's flaw one in the liberal mind set.

Flaw two is the one you know and choose to ignore. You violate your own ideal of "Laissez-Faire" in that your social nets, your gay marriages, so on, are imposed against the will of the those that don't want it.

That very imposition diametrically opposed and contradictory to your stated beliefs.

Yet, I am willing to let you have your progressive views....ON A STATE LEVEL.

edit on 21-8-2013 by nwtrucker because: grammar

Wanting my tax money (that no mater what side you are on, IS not going away) to go to Social services like Education and Health care, as opposed to national defense. Is not something for nothing, Wanting a road built with my tax money is not either.

I do agree though these issues should be the Purview of the state not the fed.

Yet states have proven numerous times in history unable to in-act social change that was needed.

I am all for states rights, but there are times where Federal law does need to supersede state in My humble opinion, often times on Issues of human rights neglected or inequitable by the constitution.

People didn't want desegregation either, and it took the national guard along with US Marshals to even allow that change to happen in some states.

Which would be fine, BUT The problem we face now is that Neither party are following their stated Ideals, What it meant to be Republican, and what it Meant to be Democrat no longer exist.

Hijacked by the extremes of either party.

Even the Republican party as far back as Reagan abandoned small conservative government, The Reagan era saw government expansion that should of made the Republicans revolt but it didn't... Because their team did it.

Defining "liberalism" is an endeavor in subjective futility.

It is all about perspective. It is subjective, and relative only to those who can exploit it best to advance radical agendas.

IMO

Originally posted by ausername
Defining "liberalism" is an endeavor in subjective futility.

It is all about perspective. It is subjective, and relative only to those who can exploit it best to advance radical agendas.

IMO

Well defining anything is an endeavor in subjective futility in that case. Words mean whatever you subjectively choose them too. The idea that you could define anything starts to become an impossibility, as surely you could find someone who will disagree with you.

reply to post by Hefficide


A liberal would take the time to plan and execute this informative, broad-minded exercise in teaching and bringing folks together...

A conservative would laugh at you for wasting time that should be used to make money...

Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

Good attempt at defining (one ) terms that desperately need defining and finding commonalities between people that invariably outnumber the differences... but then that makes me sound like a liberal... sigh.

Of course these labels are used as pejoratives now, rather than actual descriptors. Even using such labels indicates a serious lack of thought and knowledge of human behavior.

When people resort to short-hand labels, things start falling apart... I know I agree with what you wrote and identify with it, personally, and being invalidated as a thinking being for that by some makes me sad.

Too bad more people can't enjoy diversity and wrap their minds around how dull the world would be without it... or understand that we are all benefited by raising up the least among us.

Choose a side, the puppet master demanded. A side for which you will give all your hard work and wonder. A side that will take your ideas and twist your rhetoric to fit it's own agenda.

Choose a side, the puppeteer demanded, for regardless of which, my agenda is still the thing being debated.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Choose a side, the puppet master demanded. A side for which you will give all your hard work and wonder. A side that will take your ideas and twist your rhetoric to fit it's own agenda.

Choose a side, the puppeteer demanded, for regardless of which, my agenda is still the thing being debated.

~Tenth

Choose a herd, or at your own peril your herd will be chosen for you by default.

You can't be a free thinker or a centrist, the two herds will simply not allow that, you may vote as an independent, but at some time you will be identified as a member of the herd on the left or the herd on the right...

baaaa

reply to post by ausername


That only happens when you let others do the speaking for you my friend. A huge problem that all political parties and ideologies have. If more moderates spoke from the heart and spoke up about what their goals and ideas were, the extremism would be drowned out over night.

All the anger and money in the world can't affect a population who have refused to participate or acknowledge their existence in the first place.

~Tenth

Originally posted by ausername

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Choose a side, the puppet master demanded. A side for which you will give all your hard work and wonder. A side that will take your ideas and twist your rhetoric to fit it's own agenda.

Choose a side, the puppeteer demanded, for regardless of which, my agenda is still the thing being debated.

~Tenth

Choose a herd, or at your own peril your herd will be chosen for you by default.

You can't be a free thinker or a centrist, the two herds will simply not allow that, you may vote as an independent, but at some time you will be identified as a member of the herd on the left or the herd on the right...

baaaa

Don't these talking monkeys know that Eden has enough to go around?
Plenty in this holy garden, silly old monkeys,
Where there's one you're bound to divide it
Right in two

Fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky and
Fight over life, over blood, over air and light,
Over love, over sun, over another.
Fight for the time, for the one, for the rise.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by ausername

 

That only happens when you let others do the speaking for you my friend. A huge problem that all political parties and ideologies have. If more moderates spoke from the heart and spoke up about what their goals and ideas were, the extremism would be drowned out over night.

All the anger and money in the world can't affect a population who have refused to participate or acknowledge their existence in the first place.

~Tenth

Anyone can do the above as well, just no one does.

Write your reps, demand the change you want.

Call them, email, letter writing work, if you do them.

We are letting the crazys run the asylum because the moderates refuse to be vocal with their demands, like the left and right extremes are.

reply to post by benrl


What I was referring to was welfare/assured services, etc., where the individual thinks he/she's entitled to benefits without any contribution back.(Obviously, the incapable are exempt.) Not services like basic education, roads the and the like, where exchange is obvious.

As far as federal imposition goes, you find the segregation issue, etc., justified. OK. how about the current NSA activity? I assume not. The trouble is, many do think it's "justified".

All acts are justified be the doers.

Justification is subjective. The door is open or closed.

The founding fathers didn't say "unless justified".

Again, nothing is perfect.

I will take state rights and their potential drawbacks over federalism and their obvious drawbacks any day.

A matter of preference, I suppose.

reply to post by Hefficide


Good post just a couple of points.

First you say its all about respect, but what I find in many , perhaps not with you but with others, is that when you feel the need for the government to provide for the "less fortunate" you make yourself superior to that person. They can't make it on their own so we must intervene. I have always said I would rather have someone ignore or even dislike me rather than pity me.

Again I am not saying you do this, but I think that it is a very fine line from what you are saying.

reply to post by Hefficide


My other question is that doesn't forcing people to provide for others through taxation destroy the potential for morality. People no longer give out of their good heart, but because they are forced to.

Let's be honest, probably everyone on this board has more than just the bare minimum to survive, the fact we all have the timer and the means to be online proves that. Yet we know there are people that don't have food. Yet we are not sacrificing all of our luxuries to ensure they are fed.

But some of us demand that wealth be taken from the collective to provide for this. Shouldn't we at least give all we can before demanding others be forced to give? I don't see how one can be claiming to help people out of morality without doing this.

reply to post by Hefficide


First off, you commie bastid, you never did explain why you hate 'Murica!




_____________________________________________________________________

Okay, that's out of the way.

Nice thread, but it still won't change many opinions, unfortunately.

To so many here I am a neo-con, cross-burning, Dick Cheney smooching, republican wealth-monger who spits on anyone making minimum wage.

We spend time defining ourselves and even more time redefining ourselves after others try to define us!

Be who you are.

Be free to be who you are.

(just because you're wrong doesn't mean it's not right)

reply to post by beezzer


Nice try. Lib.

Now that it's come up, I've always wondered how many outrageous right-wing posts were, in fact, garbage written by leftie shills?

Like the ones paid to 'demonstrate' in public....

So I'm curious... is the proud liberal proud of the current President and his administration?

You either believe the person is left to 'regulate' their own pursuits and thank no other for the privilege or you don't.

Liberalism in it's classical sense means to be free rise or fall on their own volition.

Freedom from government, freedom from your neighbor, freedom of thought.

It is like people have made a mold and said here your this you are suppose to hold these beliefs.

Not true.

Labels get corrupted just like anything else and YEA what passes for what people call liberalism today gives them all a bad name.

Same thing with the flip side of that coin, the yin to their yang only thing I am proud about is being an American.

Political ideology ?

Not so much because that is a current reflection of what we should try to avoid.

Democrat/Republican ?

Liberal/Conservative ?

Pretty much has nothing to do with the real world except when it comes to voting time.

I'm a liberal for a few selective reasons. Listed below.

I believe that one should have the choice to live their lives however they please, even if it's detrimental to themselves, as long as they hurt nobody else. (with the exception of abortion, because I believe that you have the choice, even though personally it is against my religion, I will not force my beliefs on others)

I believe it's better for everyone as a whole, for there to be government assistance, even though I myself would never use such programs, Even though I've been homeless before. I take care of myself, I don't take any charity, There are some who would (and do) take advantage of these programs, those people should be ashamed of themselves. I believe that despite those horrid individuals who selfishly take advantage of said programs, they should still exist, for the people that can't live without them, and whatever collateral damage comes from the bad people, is worth it, to save the one good person who couldn't survive without it.

I believe that it's better for these programs to exist for the people who really need them, and can't take care of themselves, and I am absolutely okay with spending my hard earned money through taxes, to pay for everything I don't agree with, just so the things I do agree with can be funded as well.

I believe that it's better to give than to receive, I believe that greed is evil, and throwing up tax dollars is a useless argument. I would rather go without in life, to see others be helped than to have more and see people suffer.

I believe in technology, even though it has been used in an evil way, such as spying on American citizens.

I believe that for everything good, there is usually something bad, Even if it could be avoided, it would take a lot of effort to do so, and thereby waste the money you complained about in the first place.

In a perfect society liberalism would be a perfect selfless way of life, however we don't live in that society. I am perfectly fine with all of the negative stereotypes, and badmouthing that comes my way for the way I believe. But I believe the way I do because it's the right thing to do, and I am willing to sacrifice myself for the greater good of those who need it.

Shame on anyone who takes advantage of liberalism to suit their own selfish ends, they will have to live with the things they have done, and will answer for it accordingly.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
So I'm curious... is the proud liberal proud of the current President and his administration?

Not even a little bit - at all.

I supported the current POTUS through two elections because I truly wanted to believe that he would bring universal healthcare to the United States.

What we got was a fiasco that puts medical insurance into the same boat as auto insurance. Funny thing... before it was mandatory, even as a "high risk teenage driver" I paid about 10%, for car insurance, of what I presently pay - as a "responsible adult with a completely blank MVR".

Obama didn't just fail do deliver universal healthcare.... he sold all of our souls to Kaiser/ Aetna / Blue Cross.

That's just the tip of the iceberg however. He also continued and expanded on every single policy that made me despise Bush/Cheney.

I venture to say, Obama is about as Liberal or socialist as is Neil Boortz is - when the rubber hits the road. That is to say "Not at all".