My Trip To Disneyland (August 2013)

And just as an aside note on how erroneous it is to assert non-initiated know nothing of Freemasonry, I would like to present some quotes that are verifiable and attributed to real Masons, not Joe Nobodies, like most of the typical anti-Freemasons will cite. Once again, I am not anti-masonic. Get this through your heads..

“The common eye sees only the outside of things, and judges by that, but the ‘all seeing eye’ pierces through, and reads the heart and the soul, finding there capacities which the outside didn’t indicate or promise, and which the other kind couldn’t detect.” —Mark Twain, Famous American Author and Freemason, 1899

Famous Freemason and former Harvard student Albert Pike (1809-1892) believed true Freemasonry represented something akin to the ancient doctrine of the Aryan race—a fact not widely recognized. Pike, a pillar of American Masonry, is best known for his 1871 book, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

But few realize he penned two other noteworthy books that examine ancient Aryan spirituality: Aryan Deities and Worship as Contained in the Rig-Veda, and Irano-Aryan Faith and Doctrine as Contained in the Zend Avesta. “The world owes all its correct and profound conceptions of the Deity, and its knowledge of the existence of the human soul, to the great Aryan race.” —Albert Pike, Irano-Aryan Faith and Doctrine as Contained in the Zend Avesta

“The real source from whence the Ancient Wisdom came was…Old India, the Mother of Civilizations and Religions, and of the esoteric or concealed wisdom.” —Dr. J.D. Buck, Mystic Masonry

“It has been called “The Third Eye.” The Ancient Hindus called it the Eye of Siva…It is atrophied, and therefore dormant in the average individual…The Eye of Siva is, in fact, an All-Seeing-Eye; for it practically annuls Space and Time as concepts on the physical plane…
A real Master [Mason], then, has the Eye of Siva; the pineal gland, dormant in others, is active in him…”
—Dr. J.D. Buck, Mystic Masonry

I could go on, but I won't for now. And as many of you have put it before, anybody can learn anything about Freemasonry, it just takes the time, dedication, and will to learn by reading their actual materials; not spewed and regurgitated hatred on Youtube.

reply to post by network dude

Only a sociopath would think in everything inverse. It's how they justify their actions.

And that's the exact type of people that I am describing : sociopaths. Who else approves the spending of millions of dollars on stupid nonsense while children die of starvation in Africa? You are out of your mind if you think this world isn't run by sociopaths, because with the conviction of Bradley Manning, there is no other alternative...

Or..... all the Higher up masons that rule the world just cannot get enough of that hot ass Minnie mouse. (see masonic sex ritual)

Funny but A) I don't believe in 'high-level' masons, because ironically there is no such thing. The third degree of Master Mason of the Blue Lodge is the highest degree in Freemasonry. They are only supplemental teachings, and B) I don't believe in masonic sex rituals, unless it's done at home between in the privacy of the Mason and his wife; I don't know like making babies?

Overall, I enjoy your sense of humor, but attempting to lump me in with the anti-masons because I don't share every particular viewpoint of the ATS Masons, is highly inaccurate labeling of my beliefs concerning your fraternity.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
I NEVER SAID IT WAS!!! Jesus Christ...How many times can you misrepresent what I said?

You implied it was.

Benevolent & Protective Order of the Mouse

Knights of the Loyal Inkwell

Neither of these word plays, possibly have anything in common with the Masonic Order and Knights Templar?

Nope. Because the real life groups are called the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks (B.P.O.E.) and the Royal Order of Moose. And I think the second would be closer to the Knights of Columbus as there is no stand alone Masonic group using the name Knights Templar. Both instances in Masonry, the Scottish and York Rite, are incorporated into the larger body.

Like "The Fraternal Order of Free and Accepted Masons" or "Knights of the Temple of Solomon"?

Those would be equally as fictitious. The examples given are the ones being discussed, not some personal invention.

I never said nor inferred that by them doing a word play like this, that it was a teaching emulated in Freemasonry, so just stop.

Right.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
However these play on words suggest a masonic influence IN the play on words.

How do you get a 'Masonic influence in the play on words' without Masons? Where would someone learn a 'Masonic influence' if not in lodge or from a Mason? Stop backpedalling.

You mean to tell me there is only one meaning to any particular symbol? Get outta here with that garbage...

We are not talking about the meaning of Masonic symbols, we are talking about the meaning of a few symbols in Disneyland which have nothing to do with Masonry except to the non-Masons (read: you).

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
As a whole, you are correct. However, how many employees of Disney, let alone Disneyland do you suspect of being Freemasons, which would warrant the forming of such a lodge?

Why even form a lodge in association with Disneyland period? Is your local lodge not enough?

Dude seriously, why can you not get this?

Disneyland employs thouands of people. In the 1950's when it was completed Masonry was at its highest, 1 in 20 men joined. Using the smallest amount of Disneyland employees (3-4,000 in the off season) and being conservative in saying half were men, that gives us 75-100 Masons. This is a fair amount of men for a lodge and it could have been significantly higher in the peak season when the workforce was huge.

There are numerous intances of men forming lodges at larger corporations at that time and why would this be any exception? You would not need to travel and could meet after work. This would have become their 'local lodge'.

It is obvious I do get it as I understand how Masonry works.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Again in the 1950's when Freemasonry was at it's highest...Care to cite the rates of men joining now? Because the fact is you know that it is dropping.

I won't go through another point for point with you again, because you will simply just argue against strawman versions of whatever I said.

Once again, I would like to bow out of this thread by simply stating that I respectfully disagree, while although you offered what could be seen as a unique viewpoint, I do not adopt it as my own.

So you are stating that Freemasonry is not a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons?

Poor Fellow-Soldiers (Knights) of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Again in the 1950's when Freemasonry was at it's highest...Care to cite the rates of men joining now? Because the fact is you know that it is dropping.

And what does that have to do with when that Masonic club was active?

So you are stating that Freemasonry is not a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons?

It does not use either of the names that you generated on placards, identifiers or markings.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I asked you a yes or no question, not a deflection.. Is Freemasonry or is it not, a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons? It's a yes or no answer. I'm not asking for a verbatim statement, and you would ill informed to assume that all connections must be made so definitively...Use some common sense..

The Mysteries
In every race and every clime,
Since the earliest days of Time,
Men have taught the Mystic Quest Shown the Way to Peace and rest.
Bacchus died, and rose again,
On the golden Asian Plain;
Osiris rose from out the grave,
And thereby mankind did save:
Adonis likewise shed his blood
By the yellow Syrian flood,
Zoroaster brought to birth Mithra from His Cave of Earth.
And to-day in Christian Lands
We with them can join hands.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
I asked you a yes or no question, not a deflection..

The answer to your irrelevant question is membership is up in some jurisdictions (mine) and down and others. Again, what does this have to do with when this Masonic group was active?

And it is supremely comical and hypocritical that you insist on answers as numerous questions I directed at you have still gone unanswered. Review the thread if you 'missed' them.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
I asked you a yes or no question, not a deflection.. Is Freemasonry or is it not, a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons? It's a yes or no answer. I'm not asking for a verbatim statement...

Nice of you to edit your post and not address my response above.

Masonry is a fraternal order and some jurisidictions use the words 'free and accepted' but NONE of them use the words I quoted above so what the hell is your point?

...and you would ill informed to assume that all connections must be made so definitively...

Either the name is right or it is not.

Use some common sense..

I have been, I think this is why you are so confused about a great many things.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus



Funny, you think I should answer everyone of your questions which have no real bearing, and once again are formulated as rebuttals to a strawman argument, yet you can't even answer a simple yes or no.

And I'm sorry; I was under the impression that the edit button exists for a reason.

The answer to your irrelevant question is membership is up in some jurisdictions (mine) and down and others. Again, what does this have to do with when this Masonic group was active?

Because to my knowledge, from what was presented in this thread, I haven't seen any evidence to show it was 'de-activated'. Regardless, you didn't answer MY question as to why even such a lodge would be necessary when the local lodge would do fine. Freemasonry isn't an aspect of the workplace...It's almost like keeping the separation of church and state in school..

Period. Point blank. Your guesstimation of how many employee's of Disneyland were masons who took part in the masonic club is hearsay unless you have actual numbers from an authority of the park stating such. Secondly, there is no need to even associate Freemasonry in the form of a club, if Walt was never a Mason. Now, having a 'workshop' where you could learn to sign up for the DeMolay international, would be perfectly okay, I could understand this..

However I do not understand the outright denial of any involvement with Freemasonry, when there are a lot of influences very apparent. Walt Disney was a member of DeMolay, which is based on part and influenced by the teachings of Freemasonry; to say that part of is life is irrelevant in his work is nonsensical and illogical.

End of my opinions here.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Funny, you think I should answer everyone of your questions which have no real bearing...

I guess it is funny. Funny that a Mason wannabe with no insight into how the Fraternity operates is going to come on here and 'explain' how certain symbols at Disneyland were placed there, in his well-knowledged opinion, by 'Masonic influence', and then refuses to explain what this Masonic influence is and who the persons exerting are.

And I'm sorry; I was under the impression that the quote button exists for a reason.

It does, and proper etiquette (as well as honesty) dictate that if you change you words post facto you indicate as much. But hey, being a wannabe Mason, you know all about Masonry's stance on honesty.

Unless of course you happen to be emplyoing your assinine premise that by teaching someone about honesty you are teaching them how to be dishonest.

Edit to add:

Because to my knowledge, from what was presented in this thread, I haven't seen any evidence to show it was 'de-activated'.

That what was 'deactivated', the club? Call up the Disney Recreation Center and ask them.

Regardless, you didn't answer MY question as to why even such a lodge would be necessary when the local lodge would do fine. Freemasonry isn't an aspect of the workplace...It's almost like keeping the separation of church and state in school..

I asnwered that quite clearly, scroll up. It made it easier for companies that had large amounts of associates to meet at work instead of traveling off-site, it owuld have become their home lodge if they choose to make it so.

Period. Point blank. Your guesstimation of how many employee's of Disneyland were masons who took part in the masonic club is hearsay unless you have actual numbers from an authority of the park stating such.

My estimates are accurate as 1 in 20 men were Masons at that point and the law of averages dictates in larger statistical samples.

Secondly, there is no need to even associate Freemasonry in the form of a club, if Walt was never a Mason. Now, having a 'workshop' where you could learn to sign up for the DeMolay international, would be perfectly okay, I could understand this..

Hey Mr. Potato Head, I am not sure why you have such a hard time digesting that there were 4,000,000 Masons at that point and it was a very prevelant part of society (along with other fraternal groups) so catering to your employee's likes; softball, Masonry, bowling, etc. is just good corporate culture.

However I do not understand the outright denial of any involvement with Freemasonry, when there are a lot of influences very apparent. Walt Disney was a member of DeMolay, which is based on part and influenced by the teachings of Freemasonry; to say that part of is life is irrelevant in his work is nonsensical and illogical.

Because when we do something, stick our name on it, we do it RIGHT. Evidenced by cornerstone layings, participation in parades, public events, etc, etc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Masonry is a fraternal order and some jurisidictions use the words 'free and accepted' but NONE of them use the words I quoted above so what the hell is your point?

I asked for a yes or no answer. What part of that did you not understand? I will repeat my question one last time in the hope that you will stop your pointless distractions and answer the question. This is a question about common sense, not whether the Masons identify themselves definitively as such.

Is Freemasonry, or is it not, a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons? I want a yes or no. Nothing else.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Unless of course you happen to be emplyoing your assinine premise that by teaching someone about honesty you are teaching them how to be dishonest.

It isn't an asinine premise. If you would actually read, I said it is through the inverse application of your teachings, that you teach them the opposite. Not that it was something directly and deliberately done.

Teaching me to be honest would be training me from the time I was a child to answer questions truthfully, and to not knowingly tell lies. Now, by doing the exact opposite of what you told me, lying and deliberately telling them, you have learned how to be dishonest. Jesus...

Funny that a Mason wannabe with no insight into how the Fraternity operates is

The problem is once again you have thrown the rebuttal of a strawman argument at me, which you have never once denied doing. How is that for some honesty?

Secondly, I never said any of this malarky had anything to do with the Fraternity conspiring to create this, which is what you have continually tried to infer, that I am outlining some sort of conspiracy by Freemasons and the Jewish bankers to rob children of their innocence..

I stated clearly and for the last time, that the masonic influence was in the WORDING OF THE PLAY, not INFLUENCING THROUGH IT. Do you honestly think I believe that good ol' Walt had his crew leave that there to brainwash young children into adopting satanic ideals? You are out of your friggin mind. If anything, you have been the dishonest one here, not I.

Finally, you throw the term 'mason wannabe' around like it is a derogatory term. You should be proud somebody actually wants to learn about your society, instead of believing you follow Satan...Your attitude towards those who view Freemasonry through an external perspective is appalling, and lends an odd sort of credence to some things people say about masons. True or not, you certainly don't help your case of convincing people you aren't demon worshipers, when you treat everybody outside of the order, like you are so holier than thou...Drop the self-righteousness. I'm not impressed.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

It does, and proper etiquette

Oh!?! And you know so much about proper etiquette, don't you, Mr. Holierthanthou?

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Is Freemasonry, or is it not, a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons? I want a yes or no. Nothing else.

No.

Not all jurisdictions use that verbiage, but you knew that being a wannabe Mason and all. Look up South Carolina.

It isn't an asinine premise. If you would actually read, I said it is through the inverse application of your teachings, that you teach them the opposite. Not that it was something directly and deliberately done.

Teaching me to be honest would be training me from the time I was a child to answer questions truthfully, and to not knowingly tell lies. Now, by doing the exact opposite of what you told me, lying and deliberately telling them, you have learned how to be dishonest. Jesus...

I see you are sharing your vast wealth of child developmental learning with us today. How kind. Children do not learn to lie because we teach them to be honest. Children typcially lie because of fairly uniform reasons:

Around the age of 5 or 6 children start to develop a more consistent understanding of the difference between fantasy and reality and are less likely to insist on the truth of their imaginings. Around this age, a child begins to develop a conscience and understand that certain behaviors may disappoint his or her parents. He or she may also begin to experience feelings of guilt associated with misdeeds. For the first time, the child may construct a lie in an attempt to avoid punishment and/or disapproval. Children this age may also tell fibs or exaggerate extensively in order to get their parents’ attention.

By the age of 7 or 8, most children have learned to tell the difference between fantasy and reality and can usually be counted on to tell the truth. The most common reasons for children to lie at this age are to avoid being punished, or to avoid doing something unpleasant like emptying the trash. Children may also begin to grasp the concept of polite social lying around this age. They may pretend to like the knitted socks that Grandma gave them for their birthday, or compliment a friend’s new haircut even though they think it looks ridiculous. Altruistic lies to protect others from harm may be told as well. Lies at this age may also be a cry for help. Children who are very fearful of disappointing their parents and are feeling overwhelmed by school or some other area of their lives, may lie in an attempt to deal with this pressure. source

The thought that you lie because someone teaches you about honesty is the giant toolbag of toolbag nonsense. Get a grip.

The problem is once again you have thrown the rebuttal of a strawman argument at me, which you have never once denied doing. How is that for some honesty?

I will not deny you think they are strawmen. Feel better?

Secondly, I never said any of this malarky had anything to do with the Fraternity conspiring to create this, which is what you have continually tried to infer, that I am outlining some sort of conspiracy by Freemasons and the Jewish bankers to rob children of their innocence..

You are the person who first inserted the term 'Masonic influence' in regards the images in the Original Post and have yet to explain coherently what the hell you are talking about.

'Jewish bankers', what kind of retarded tangent is that?

I stated clearly and for the last time, that the masonic influence was in the WORDING OF THE PLAY, not INFLUENCING THROUGH IT.

And how was the 'wording of the play' due to a Masonic influence when it clearly dealt with the Moose and Elks?

Do you honestly think I believe that good ol' Walt had his crew leave that there to brainwash young children into adopting satanic ideals?

Jewish bankers, now Satan, look who is going all non-sequitor.

Finally, you throw the term 'mason wannabe' around like it is a derogatory term. You should be proud somebody actually wants to learn about your society...

You learn by keeping you mouth shut and allow people who actually know to explain to you, not offer half-baked opinions on what you 'think' it may be.

True or not, you certainly don't help your case of convincing people you aren't demon worshipers...

I could not care if you or anyone else thinks I worship demons or a rutabaga.

Oh!?! And you know so much about proper etiquette, don't you, Mr. Holierthanthou?

I know it is not proper etiquette to offer opinions on subjects of which you are not well versed (Masonry in your case).

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

Thanks for the clarification.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

You're trying to infer that there is Masonic influence with Disneyland.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

I'd say though that just because there is influence that doesn't mean they are Masons.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
The true power of Freemasonry is in the teachings, not your fabled positions of power. Degrees do not represent power. Knowledge and applications of the teachings are. This 'high-level Mason' nonsense is an erroneous assertion at best.

I agree.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

My Lodge started because a bunch of Idaho Power workers wanted to meet on a different night than the Lodge they belonged to.

As to a club being formed, a group of Northern Idaho Brothers decided that they couldn't drive the hour drive to the nearest York Rite body so they created a club.

reply to post by KSigMason

I'd say though that just because there is influence that doesn't mean they are Masons.

And I agree with this. I have tried to outline to A.M. I don't believe any influence is a direct result of the Fraternity as some sort of conspiracy, but in the similarity of the 'Disney Orders' to actual names of secret societies.

Apparently however, it's considered heresy on a public forum to assert that there are those who are outside of Masonry that may work for their own nefarious ends by using the organization..

And incase it was overlooked I would like to post this last tidbit here, just incase there are any of you who are confused..

However, I can not rule out the possibility and likelihood that there are those who join Freemasonry for their own nefarious purposes, like I don't know; the very ill gain that you seek to prevent, when they fill out their petition saying not to? Since you guys love analogies so much, allow me to make another one.

Saying some people don't join Freemasonry for nefarious purposes, is like saying some people don't join the police force to become a bully with a badge; it is inaccurate, your cosmic laws say the same thing, and you know it. As a whole though, no, I do not blanket stereotype Freemasons on the actions of so relatively few members. Therein lies the difference between most of these assertions being leveled.

Whatever though

Call me a cynic, but I do not believe that kids in DeMolay have either the life experience nor the mental maturity to comprehend the lessons which Freemasonry teaches (and DeMolay attempts to teach.)

Whether or not someone was in DeMolay or not, I cannot see it having any more influence on the the rest of their life than having been a boy scout.

After all, they're just kids.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas

Is Freemasonry, or is it not, a fraternal order of or for free and accepted masons? I want a yes or no. Nothing else.

This question is illogical in the sense that you are only a Mason once you have already joined. It is therefore not for Masons, as only non-Masons can join.

It's a bit like asking if a job is for employees only...