Before complaining, visit this thread

I decided to create this thread simply to try to insert some reality into some people's heads. I live in Portugal, working 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with no opportunity to reject work on holidays or sundays. At the best case scenario, my wage is about 942$/month (already converted), but the normal should be about 875$/month. With this wage, the portuguese government takes about 120/130$ of IRS + social security, so I end up with anything between 700 and 800$ at the end of the month. With this, and starting next month, I'll have to pay half of a 332$ rent for a place with 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom plus other expenses. Here's the list:

Water: 27$
Natural Gas: 33$
Electricity: 66$
Food: 265$
Housing: 332$
Internet service: 66$

This is for 2 people living in the same house, having only dinner there and being home from 7pm until 8am next day. That is a grand total of 789$ without any luxury, only the cheapest food available, the crappiest internet/television service and standard prices for basic service consumption. I would like some people to know also that here in my country this is becoming a standard wage and costs are going up for everything. Last month natural gas went up 3.3%. Let me also let you know that here 1 liter of gas for my car (about 0.264 gallons) costs 2.12$.

Just think before saying that people in the US (and other well developed countries) are being enslaved and living bellow poverty levels. I'm poor but I live a dignifying life.

# 24

I do think.
We are being enslaved.

It's just the beginning, wait for it.
Too much to contemplate atm.

Glad you're back.

Originally posted by TheWhiteKnight
# 24

I do think.
We are being enslaved.

It's just the beginning, wait for it.
Too much to contemplate atm.

Glad you're back.

Yes, the world is going down the drain. Soon enough people will realize it. I predict a dystopian future happening sooner than than we think.

Thanks for the kind words, when I have some times I'll check your PM.

reply to post by JameSimon


You sound like you got your act together, even though times are tough for you.
I wish you the best.


I saw a couple this week arguing over a $14 tee for their kid, the wife said it was too much and they couldn't afford it.
But then the guy turns around and fusses to me about his wife walking off and leaving their 2 phones unattended on the baby stroller.
He proceeds to tell me that they had $1,000 tied up in the phones due to the fact that he had to replace her phone cause he smashed the front and it cost over $700 to replace and then a week later she found one on sale for $300 with more storage.

And I'm looking at him and finally I say, "you mean to tell me you guys are bitching about a $14 shirt for your baby while you guys spent an ungodly amount of money on your stupid phones???
I just shook my head at him and told him their priorities were screwed up.
Think of the food they could have bought with that money or clothes.


It just blows my mind that some people don't prioritize the important stuff from the frivolous stuff.


I think my husband and I are the only ones not obsessed with Apple products or smart phones in general.
We still have flip phones.
If I need the internet, that's what my PC is for.

I sat in a room with a lady today who has a degenerative bone disease, has lost her job, is studying community services and struggles on less than $40 a fortnight after paying all her bills, not including internet. She lost her license, and has to rely on public transport.

She was wrapped that she could afford to buy her 19 year old daughter deoderant. and toilet paper. After a welfare agency gave her a shopping card for $60.

AUD.

Awesome stuff...

reply to post by snarky412


This is why I don't have a credit card and always take some money out to buy what I need. Last year i bought a computer for about 600$, piece by piece, I assembled it by myself. It took me 6 months to get the money because I was taking a professional course on dental assistant and it only paid about 150$ a month. I have a 200$ phone (smartphone) from ZTE that I bought with 23% discount and is a good machine. People need to get their priorities right, sometimes I see some random guy from the states saying that his 2000$ salary isn't worth a dime and then he has a 700$ iPhone, 3 credit cards and his house equipped with the best things. Me? I only fall in temptation when I have the money apart, even if it takes me 1 year to get it together.

I'm not saying that people are well paid and don't deserve more, but why live like you have 5000$ when you only have 2000$? In the future, the bank will catch you. Here is a good link that I used to compare stuff sometime ago: Cost of living comparison: Portugal VS USA. Let me compare some basic stuff so you guys can see what I'm saying (PT vs USA)

Thanks for the kind words also, I try my best!

reply to post by JameSimon


I live in the US - in an area that is probably a bit cheaper than most other metropolitan regions here. As it happens, the house I live in is paid for - so I will include "rent" below as what the next door neighbors pay per month to rent a comparable house.

Rent $1,200
Electricity $300 - 400
Water $30-40
Cable and Internet $110
Gas $100 - summer $400 - 500 winter.
Food $250 month ( one person )

The area I live in has no public transportation - so a car is a must have item here. A cheap car payment would be in the $200 - $300 range and mandatory insurance would be about $125 for a person with a good driving record.

By way of comparison the minimum wage here is roughly $966.66 a month ( for full time if one is lucky enough to find full time work ) and the taxes would run anywhere from 10 to 30% - depending upon gender and number of dependents.

In other words... Yes, we in the US are sorta screwed right now.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by JameSimon

 

I live in the US - in an area that is probably a bit cheaper than most other metropolitan regions here. As it happens, the house I live in is paid for - so I will include "rent" below as what the next door neighbors pay per month to rent a comparable house.

Rent $1,200
Electricity $300 - 400
Water $30-40
Cable and Internet $110
Gas $100 - summer $400 - 500 winter.
Food $250 month ( one person )

The area I live in has no public transportation - so a car is a must have item here. A cheap car payment would be in the $200 - $300 range and mandatory insurance would be about $125 for a person with a good driving record.

By way of comparison the minimum wage here is roughly $966.66 a month ( for full time if one is lucky enough to find full time work ) and the taxes would run anywhere from 10 to 30% - depending upon gender and number of dependents.

In other words... Yes, we in the US are sorta screwed right now.

Not saying you aren't, but by comparison, how big is the house? How much electricity do you use? What is the cable service?

By comparison, I can tell you that here in Portugal, at the cheapest area of one of the cheapest cities (regarding rent), the values are for:

Water: 27$ - 3 cubic meter consumption
Natural Gas: 33$ - Average price to make 1 meal a day + two 5 minute baths
Electricity: 66$ - Average price for 2 person house
Food: 265$ - Buying cheapest crappiest brands, no coke or refrigerants, no desert, just food.
Housing: 332$ - 70 squared meter house with 1/2 bed rooms, 1 bath room, kitchen and a small living room
Internet service: 66$ - 90 channel service with 20Mb internet + Phone.

These are all monthly values.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by JameSimon

 

Rent $1,200
Electricity $300 - 400
Water $30-40
Cable and Internet $110
Gas $100 - summer $400 - 500 winter.
Food $250 month ( one person )

The area I live in has no public transportation - so a car is a must have item here. A cheap car payment would be in the $200 - $300 range and mandatory insurance would be about $125 for a person with a good driving record.

By way of comparison the minimum wage here is roughly $966.66 a month ( for full time if one is lucky enough to find full time work ) and the taxes would run anywhere from 10 to 30% - depending upon gender and number of dependents.

Well, I live in a northern state...and some prices are the same here...others far less.


Rent $1,200 [average suburban house rent] [$650 and up for a 2 brdm apartment]
Electricity $100 [$200-300 summer]
Water $40-60
Cable and Internet and phone $110 [basic cable only]
Gas $50 - summer $150-250 winter.
Food $150-350 month ( one person ) [all groceries]

The area I live in has no public transportation - so a car is a must have item here. A cheap car payment would be in the $200 - $300 range and mandatory insurance would be about $400-600 [for 6 months] for a person with a good driving record. Gasoline is now $3.42-3.89 a gallon.

By way of comparison the minimum wage here is roughly $1174. a month ( for full time if one is lucky enough to find full time work ) and the taxes would run anywhere from 10 to 30% - depending upon gender and number of dependents.

Home ownership would also add in annual property taxes of $1500-2500 and $600-1500 home owners insurance.
House notes can range from $350-7500 for a small 3 bdrm ranch.....depending in interset and money paid as a down payment. This is a guesstimate.

All I can add is some historical perspective.

During the era of President Woodrow Wilson,
Middle class was defined as a family with one to three servants.
That is to say that the family made enough to keep a house,
and employ up to three other people to help keeping that house.
To be lower class, in those days, only meant that one couldn't afford servants.
That is to say that one could afford to pay at least one other person a yearly wage
high enough to live comfortably and maybe even go to college.

Whereas these days the, so-called, middle class
has to double, or triple up, on their roommates just to make the bills.

Take a famous example, the Wright Brothers.
Two humble, middle class men, who could afford to do their own experiments,
and had the free time to test and develop them.

Personally my feelings are that our owners think that they are doing us a favor
by weighing us down with meager wages and mounting debt.
Why?
Cause, they reason to them selves, with free time we just make trouble.
So they are sparing us by keeping us too busy to live.



Middle-Class Living Standard 1896

Monthly budget
"Food and lights" $75.00
[color=gold]Servants $29.00
Rent 42.00
Coal 12.00
Water 4.00
TOTAL = $162.00 a month
Income = $3,500 a year

* This list was prepared by Professor Woodrow Wilson's wife, for a middle class salary of $3,500 a year

"A history of The United States, Since 1865
T. Harry Williams, Louisiana State University
Richard N. Current, University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Frank Friedel, Harvard University
(c) 1959
-page 272




Mike