DOJ Defunds Youth Programs that Reference God

reply to post by xuenchen


I don't see a problem here. Separation of Church and State. One way to observe the situation is to blame to the DOJ for cutting funding. Another way to observe the situation is to blame the local official that, in his arrogance, refused to comply with a simple request. A simple and logical request because there could be and most likely are members that have no use for gods. Also, it could be that members have no use for the god of the official that runs the program. I guess the local official has no concern for the members who have a different point of view?

As to the other program would you want to force youths to participate in a prayer session if doing so made them uncomfortable(among other considerations)? These people that want god and prayer can do so on private time while participating in these public programs.

In regards to your mention of federal and military employees making reference to a god in their oaths: It is simply a traditional form of words. Outdated in my opinion but tradition nonetheless. I don't see that as a reasonable argument because various cultures throughout the world use tradition in one form or another.

Fox's Todd Starnes says that, "Both youth programs have been hailed as a successful way to reach at-risk young people. Since 2002 more than 1,000 young people have graduated from the program, directed by a Bossier Parish deputy who is a former U.S. Marine."

A noble goal that has had success with at-risk youth. There must be a monumental reason to oppose the DOJ on this.

Sheriff Whittington is not taking this lying down. "When something is not right and you know it’s not right and you keep bowing down, nothing is ever going to change," he said.

Nope. Not so much. A shame the leader wants to compromise that success due to his apparent disrespect of the religious rights of others. Perfect example of Christian bigotry --- sacrifice what you have achieved because a god is not getting its daily ego boost. Sad.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Kali74

 

Government and it's false prophets telling people to put it above anything else now all rights in this country come from Nature's laws, Gods laws government is a usurper of those rights.

Unfortunately, prior to the 1700s it could be argued that Christianity in the West was overwhelmingly in charge of many of those governments.

Free speech is already gone can't say this, can't say that etc.

I'm not sure its appreciated just how much free speech people currently hold. Only recently has it become 'okay' to say that one doesn't believe in Jesus without paying a heavy social price.

Founders prolly got the idea of the bill of rights from Moses.

The actual answers about documents like the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights might surprise you; it's hard to go into it on a web board but the bible diverges from the Bill of Rights on many occassions.

These documents were penned during a time where it was at least still recommended to pretend to believe in Christianity. Examples:

Thomas Hobbes butted heads with John Locke regularly, but also had some notable contributions. He believed strongly in unalienable rights and liberty. He also believed morality could be separate from religion. Charles II burnt his books and silenced him.

Pierre Bayle's writings were one of the first sets of texts announced by Thomas Jefferson to enter the library of congress. The 'Historical and Critical Dictionary' admitted to the library made claims that Atheists could have moral values. There are also Bayle writings that claim that the more difficult the 'truth' (faith) is to reasonably accept, the greater the sacrifice to believe and therefore the better it is as an endorsement of faith. It borders on parody. Possibly the first Stephen Colbert.

Benjamin Franklin was close friends with David Hume, who critically attacked the religious even in works published after his death. He came close to being charged with blasphemy.

Voltaire, Rousseau, and the ancient philosophers who also attacked unfounded beliefs were also found on the Founding Fathers book shelves.

John Locke recieves the lion's share of praise, but this is because he was religious himself. I'm not sure much has changed about politics in the last several hundred years. With all the free speech that was given, Atheists were still charged with blasphemy up until the 1920s and being Christian was (and still is) a recommended political position in running for office.

There are many other issues at play here, such as the Founding Fathers not actually agreeing on everything etc ... but if they had taken any position against religion they wouldn't be known as the Founding Fathers, they would be another set of names on a little known wall of persecuted rationalists.

It's conveniant for Christianity to try to take credit for these philosophical influencings, but they existed over 1700 years before America in Greece and Rome.

I suppose further to this, the Founding Fathers were not infalliable nor with unlimited power of position. I'd encourage Americans to consider that if this is the stance they're taking, then Allah's writings could very well one day be on the same walls.

Regardless, if these things are God given then they should also stand up to reason. If the Bible was the single source of the Bill of Rights you would be living in a very different America.