The Faith of Christ

It is a SON issue today, not a SIN issue. The issue is not forgiveness of sin. The issue is believing what Christ accomplished in your behalf, in order to be identified with and joined to Christ himself. Christ believed that God’s justice has been satisfied where the sins he came to sacrifice himself for are concerned, Christ’s faith was and remains in God, and indeed we can believe God’s justice has been satisfied. Christ does not have a wishy-washy faith, it is Christ’s faith who has never, nor will ever waver in faith. It is Christ’s faith that is freely credited to the account of the one who believes the good news given to the apostle Paul to proclaim to us in this age of grace. It is Christ’s faith that righteousifies those who take their stand with God when it comes to what God has stated his son accomplished for them. It was Christ’s faith and as a result, of his faith, his faithfulness that he sacrificed himself and purchased the gift of our salvation. It is our faith in the accomplishment of Christ's faithful sacrifice that is the means whereby God acknowledges that we have accepted the gift his son purchased. Therefore, God is his infinite wisdom devised a plan whereby he could take the very faith belonging to his son along with its resultant faithfulness and credit that faith and faithfulness to the account of those who believe.

reply to post by newnature


Just wondering...

Where does it say Jesus purchased any gift from God?

Can I assume that is from Pauls writing?

reply to post by newnature

it is Christ’s faith who has never, nor will ever waver in faith.

I always get a laugh when a Christian declares that Jesus never wavered in his faith with such authority, disregarding his plea from the cross recorded in the gospels. (Father, why have you forsaken me?)
Its a compliment in and of itself to need that type of abuse before questioning God, but he did, and that is very important.

It's funny that a benevolent god cannot grant forgiveness until we accept his own son's blood sacrifice...after his own creations killed him. And even then, it's not a true sacrifice. Since when do our lambs and crops and virgins come back to life? Huh? Since when? But it's all good if the son of a god comes back to life. Deal is still on. Wow. Okay.

Even better, he's all-powerful. He could have done it any way he chose. But he has to do it the most painful and obscure way possible. Seriously, where's the tactics in this?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
It's funny that a benevolent god cannot grant forgiveness until we accept his own son's blood sacrifice...after his own creations killed him. And even then, it's not a true sacrifice. Since when do our lambs and crops and virgins come back to life? Huh? Since when? But it's all good if the son of a god comes back to life. Deal is still on. Wow. Okay.

Even better, he's all-powerful. He could have done it any way he chose. But he has to do it the most painful and obscure way possible. Seriously, where's the tactics in this?

edit on 22-5-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

It was the will of his Father... He didn't have a choice...

Its quite clear that HE didn't want to die...

reply to post by Akragon


Doesn't matter whose decision it was, it still doesn't make any sense. Where I come from, that's called reneging. In other words, the deal is off. You failed to keep your end of the bargain. Sacrifice is sacrifice. You give up something, and it doesn't come back. You got your something back after you were supposed to give it up, so I don't have to give you anything. The conditions were clear.

Not to mention that a blood sacrifice is totally against the nature of a benevolent god, and therefore totally unnecessary - especially if the sacrifice wasn't willing. He chose the most brutal way to get things done. He's omnipotent! He could have accomplished the sparkling kingdom of revelations without Jesus every having been born! He could have used Jesus to build that kingdom without his ever dying! What the heck?!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Simply Read the bible, both old and new testaments and you'll see that the God of Abraham is in no mean benevolent and is infact jealous and wrathful. One can claim though that he had to be in order to carry out his plan of redemption, so basically the ends justify the means.

reply to post by K9millionaire

Simply Read the bible, both old and new testaments and you'll see that the God of Abraham is in no mean benevolent and is infact jealous and wrathful. One can claim though that he had to be in order to carry out his plan of redemption, so basically the ends justify the means.

I am all-powerful, so I must destroy every preschool in the world in order to establish a million years of peace and prosperity. That's what I got from the Bible.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Lol If you did indeed read the entire Bible and thats your all encompassing summary, your comprehensive reading skill could use some work. lol

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Doesn't matter whose decision it was, it still doesn't make any sense.

Perhaps that's because you're looking at the Christian point of view?

Where I come from, that's called reneging. In other words, the deal is off. You failed to keep your end of the bargain. Sacrifice is sacrifice. You give up something, and it doesn't come back. You got your something back after you were supposed to give it up, so I don't have to give you anything. The conditions were clear.

I really have no idea what you're talking about...

Not to mention that a blood sacrifice is totally against the nature of a benevolent god, and therefore totally unnecessary

Again, you're coming at this situation from the Christian point of view... Which stems from the Judaic principals Jesus spoke against...

There was never a need for a blood sacrifice... Only the OT god needed that... and he/she/it was not the true God

especially if the sacrifice wasn't willing

Read the story... he was willing... He even states the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak

He chose the most brutal way to get things done.

Nope... his accusers chose the way...

He's omnipotent! He could have accomplished the sparkling kingdom of revelations without Jesus every having been born!

Perhaps... but who would listen, being under the thumb of this OT God...

He could have used Jesus to build that kingdom without his ever dying! What the heck?!

He did not need to die... the people that executed him wanted him dead... and his people wouldn't defend him... Like he said...

Having faith means being able to let go and let whatever happens happen, I see these Christians posting on this site all the time sounding like they are translating their opinions into English from Latin trying to get support or something. You sound INSANE. Plain and simple. Go hunt a deer and eat it, go for a walk and get lost or something, find the meaning in life that is within. Please for the sake of all mankind, do Something other than this #

reply to post by AfterInfinity

The tactic and the genius is in the power behind the apparent weakness, whereby the strength and power of God's righteousness as the standard of absolute justice and mercy makes no compromise with sin and evil while at the same time rendering a verdict of forgiveness. Takes a bit of a stretch of the mind and traditional human conceptions of common sense to understand and recognize, and it takes us by surprise, but it's fairly clear what's been communicated by the Great Work of Jesus Christ, but what's truly astounding is the victory, a victory realized and then held in reserve for our mutual enjoyment.

The only thing it offends is the pride of man whereby it could be said that the best defense (of what is right) is a good offense!

reply to post by newnature


Wait! Jesus had faith? In who, himself? Isn't Jesus supposed to be God incarnate? At the very least Jesus is supposedly part of GOD as the "son" side of the trinity.

Does God have faith in God?

reply to post by pryed -eyed-one

Having faith means being able to let go and let whatever happens happen

You have mistaken faith with serenity my friend. Serenity is a part of faith, but not faith itself.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I don't think so. The means seem counter-productive to the end. Why inflict so much pain when you don't have to?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

reply to post by AfterInfinity

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

Ye know, I've seen this quote a lot...

Perhaps we call him God because HE is the one who decides our final out come after we pass?

reply to post by K9millionaire


No sir I do not, ill let Allan watts explain to you my friend.

"Faith is a state of openness or trust. To have faith is like when you trust yourself to the water. You don't grab hold of the water when you swim, because if you do you will become stiff and tight in the water, and sink. You have to relax, and the attitude of faith is the very opposite of clinging, and holding on. In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe becomes a person who has no faith at all. Instead they are holding tight. But the attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be."
Alan watts

I'm sorry my friend but reflecting on the history of Christianity in particular, this particular cult/religion has no basis in truth and clearly has no interests in Persuing it. That is fact

reply to post by Akragon


Or perhaps his understanding of good and evil are different that our ever evolving definitions. Or perhaps he's endowed us with free will. Or perhaps he is neither what we define as evil is infact a means to a greater good. too many questions...lol

reply to post by K9millionaire


Perhaps the he you are referring to is you, not some guy in the sky but you yourself. My brother you are so caught up in A to Z you forget there are 24 letters in between.

reply to post by K9millionaire

too many questions...lol

I like questions...

Or perhaps his understanding of good and evil are different that our ever evolving definitions.

Everyone knows what is good and what is evil... Its ingrained into our souls... Though not everyone listens to whats within...

Or perhaps he's endowed us with free will.

He did...

Or perhaps he is neither what we define as evil is infact a means to a greater good.

It is... for without evil how would we know what is good?

All things have a reason...