Rated T for tolerance. Girl raps about the evils of homosexuality.

reply to post by Wonders

Yes, she is ultimately responsible, but she's also young and impressionable.
No, I cannot prove this clip was commissioned, but the ideas she uncritically repeats are typical of some groups and preachers, and they have a long and dogged history.
She may have put them in a rap (assuming she wrote it), but they are not her original ideas.
There were also others involved in the production, with music, filming and editing (I think there were credits at the end, but will have to re-check, since the clip doesn't show up here anymore). This does suggest a group effort.

As was discussed earlier, people can choose who to lie with, but they cannot choose their attractions or sexual orientation.

My concern is just that she might change her mind about things in future, and people can be very mean, and once you're labelled a "bigot" it is hard to shake off.

In my opinion this kind of fundamentalist activism should be left to adults who already have an established career in music ministry, politics, preaching or some business in which the opinions or reactions of others cannot harm them.
If she's planning to become the next Anne Coulter it could be a good career move, but as it stands the first thing a lot of non-believers will think is "mind-control" or being coached by somebody else.
Whether that really is the case is indeed conjecture, but that's what happens when someone with little life experience makes moral pronouncements on issues that are actually very complex.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Wonders

 

Yes, she is ultimately responsible, but she's also young and impressionable.
No, I cannot prove this clip was commissioned, but the ideas she uncritically repeats are typical of some groups and preachers, and they have a long and dogged history.
She may have put them in a rap (assuming she wrote it), but they are not her original ideas.
There were also others involved in the production, with music, filming and editing (I think there were credits at the end, but will have to re-check, since the clip doesn't show up here anymore). This does suggest a group effort.

As was discussed earlier, people can choose who to lie with, but they cannot choose their attractions or sexual orientation.

My concern is just that she might change her mind about things in future, and people can be very mean, and once you're labelled a "bigot" it is hard to shake off.

In my opinion this kind of fundamentalist activism should be left to adults who already have an established career in music ministry, politics, preaching or some business in which the opinions or reactions of others cannot harm them.
If she's planning to become the next Anne Coulter it could be a good career move, but as it stands the first thing a lot of non-believers will think is "mind-control" or being coached by somebody else.
Whether that really is the case is indeed conjecture, but that's what happens when someone with little life experience makes moral pronouncements on issues that are actually very complex.

edit on 9-3-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

I don't think anyone is immune to emotional abuse. As for that bit about "being coached by somebody else" do you believe that people need guidance or don't you? The length of your response that I am replying to is something I take note of when I ask that.
Interesting that you seem to believe that Christians are the only ones who are apparently SUPPOSED to have "original ideas". I certaiinly would not want her to be scared of what others think of her, their opinions or reactions should not cage her. Personally I don't like rap, I don't care who it's rapped by or what they rap about, I don't like rap.

reply to post by Wonders

I don't particularly like rap either.

Nowhere did I say Christians should be the only ones to have original ideas.
In fact, I did point out homophobia in many other groups.
I'd also be careful with the general term "Christian", because Bible interpretations and teachings can vary vastly, and not all regard even each other as legitimate (some Protestants and Catholics still regard each other as heathens, for example).
Then there's a barrage of news on a regular basis of self-styled Bible-based groups (cults really) who groom young women for older men, and that scenario puts a further ironic twist to the performance.

Of course, I cannot say for sure whether she is abused in some way or not, I can only comment on how this clip may come across to different audiences.
There's no indication that she ever struggled with homosexuality or knows anything about it.
She begins her narrative with "I have this standard ...", a bit like the queen on Christmas day.

There's no indication that as a young woman she knows anything on HIV/AIDS, except that it's the "gay plague".
She says nothing on the devastating heterosexual epidemic in southern Africa or amongst African Americans.
She says nothing on the fact that as a woman she is twice as likely to be infected by a male partner, or that globally 60 percent of the infected are women.
HIV is something that happens to "other" people.
There's no history of the blood-banks and who struggled against commercial interests to exclude high risk donors.
She makes pronouncements but shows no knowledge on anything concrete whatsoever.
I certainly don't think she's ever done a course on gay literature to understand things from all perspectives, for example.

Perhaps if she said that she's been struggling with homosexuality it might be different.
But no, she's clearly straight and considers herself superior because of it.
Then she objectifies gay people, and essentially tells them how they should be: Be straight like me, it's just a choice away!
How does she really know that?
She says there's no absolute proof of causation, and her theory (choice) isn't proven either.
Not even notable fundamentalist US figures like James Dobson push such a simplistic message anymore.
Dobson believes that being gay isn't genetic, but it is also not a choice: en.wikipedia.org...

On the other hand, I belonged to a very fundamentalist Christian group a long time back, and I said similar things (knowing I was secretly gay, but hoping it would change).
At the time I never considered myself "brainwashed", although I was fed inaccurate information, so I'd be unwilling to use that term in this case.
It's a gray and debatable area.

Apart from rapping to the choir, and taking sides in a culture war, I just don't see any real target market.
Even if she wants (young) gays to convert and perhaps go to some form of ex-gay therapy (which she doesn't even mention) this is a terrible message.
It's a simplistic message that says gays are just straight people who made a consciously wicked choice.

It's not hate speech in the sense that she wants anyone to be harmed, but it's also instantly alienating.

If she's just trying to make a statement about what she believes that's fine.
However, if she actually expects gay and lesbian converts from this it's quite terrible.

It's actually the hidden gay and lesbian people in religion who are bashed again, many of whom may be trying very hard to change or be repressed.
They've just been told again that their struggles are worth nothing, and they simply chose their turmoil.
I don't know how many times they want to be bashed like this before they come out.

Just wanted to check the clip again for quotes and edits for my previous post, but Youtube says it has been removed.

I first thought that some adult had pulled the plug on over-zealous young adults, and that perhaps I was wrong about more senior manipulation.

While Googling the clip it seems it went viral by now, and "Jessica" has become a sensation.

This blog clip from a gay-friendly Christian pastor (Kathy Baldock) claims that the rapper is indeed the daughter of an anti-gay pastor (David Jarzabek).

She also claims that Jarzabek was her relentless "cyber-bully":

canyonwalkerconnections.com...

Indeed, many similarities to Westboro, if the allegations are true (which I personally think are true, and pretty much confirm to me what I suspected).

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Wonders

 

I'd also be careful with the general term "Christian", because Bible interpretations and teachings can vary vastly, and not all regard even each other as legitimate (some Protestants and Catholics still regard each other as heathens, for example).
Then there's a barrage of news on a regular basis of self-styled Bible-based groups (cults really) who groom young women for older men, and that scenario puts a further ironic twist to the performance.

On the other hand, I belonged to a very fundamentalist Christian group a long time back, and I said similar things (knowing I was secretly gay, but hoping it would change).
At the time I never considered myself "brainwashed", although I was fed inaccurate information, so I'd be unwilling to use that term in this case.
It's a gray and debatable area.

Apart from rapping to the choir, and taking sides in a culture war, I just don't see any real target market.
Even if she wants (young) gays to convert and perhaps go to some form of ex-gay therapy (which she doesn't even mention) this is a terrible message.
It's a simplistic message that says gays are just straight people who made a consciously wicked choice.

It's not hate speech in the sense that she wants anyone to be harmed, but it's also instantly alienating.

If she's just trying to make a statement about what she believes that's fine.
However, if she actually expects gay and lesbian converts from this it's quite terrible.

It's actually the hidden gay and lesbian people in religion who are bashed again, many of whom may be trying very hard to change or be repressed.
They've just been told again that their struggles are worth nothing, and they simply chose their turmoil.
I don't know how many times they want to be bashed like this before they come out.

I'd like to say, I really appreciate your responses and I completely agree that rap does not save or convert but "preaches to the choir" as you said, and when I say choir I don't mean "Christianity" as a whole, because of the fact as you pointed out that people have their differences in interpretations and teachings.
I agree that she'd be foolish if she were to believe that her rap is going to convert others to her way of thinking.

Here's a clip by David Jarzabek, allegedly the father of rapping Jessica.

It's about 50 ways that gay marriage supposedly negatively influences society.

I don't find it any more offensive than some of the Westboro material discussed in many threads, although there's no swearing here.
Some people might be a bit offended however, especially at the term "queer", but that term has also been appropriated by some academia and activism.

I strongly disagree on most points in this clip.
We've had gay marriage since 2006 and most of these fears are unfounded.
But for one or two of the more extreme examples of LGTBI activist demands I would agree.

For some cases I'm not sure of any "radical queer" agenda whatsoever, for example with Caster Semenya.
She was not a transexual and was born with her body, although it raised many issues on gender testing women in sport, and what defines gender.

Double post.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Wonders

 

But having similarities with a Satanic group can't be good can it? I thought Christianity was all for the greater good? Having similarities with Satanism is very bad, Christianity is supposed to be against Satan.

This may help you to understand:
Satan's counterfeit Christianity

I'd be VERY wary of organized religion:
Micah 3:11 Her leaders issue rulings for a bribe, her priests teach for payment, and her prophets practice divination for money. Yet they lean on the LORD, saying," Isn't the LORD among us? No disaster will overtake us."

Her priests teach for payment and will malign scripture to do so by saying:
1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they who preach the gospel should live by the gospel.

Many take that scripture to mean that preachers can line their pockets with money when in actuality it's basically another way of saying, "God wants preachers to practice what they preach."
There are plenty of verses in the bible that talks about God's children being infiltrated and defiled, that's going on today but on a much grander scale.

Maybe do a study on The Great Deception or..well, just don't give up on learning, don't become apathetic just because everyone else doesn't have all of the answers in a neat little package to spoonfeed you with.

Edit to add:
I found this, it ought to help.
Prosperity preachers and financial gain.

reply to post by halfoldman


That was truthfully painful to watch. What a stupid video.

CJ