Hell: what's the point?

I initially started writing a reply to another thread and then felt this issue deserves discussion all on its own. I have done so more in search of knowledge regarding collective thought on this rather than everyone's personal opinion (Church or other doctrine vs individual opinion) though I also appreciate the thoughts of fellow ATSers or input from ATSers with more experience on teachings than I have had.

I fail to see the point of Hell. If God is all powerful and created us all, then why not simply do away with all evil or Hell deserving souls? If there is a rabid dog, you destroy it, not torture it. Why torture for eternity? Revenge? If God is all powerful, can he not keep bad souls from escaping Hell? And if he can, why not just let them alone there on their own? Is Hell just the denial of God's love or is it horrors added to existence? Does the point of Hell mean there is a possibility of redemption even from Hell? Otherwise.... what is the need for Hell at all? Fear induced behavioral modification on this plane of life?

Were I all powerful I could "de-create" what I created. Eliminate the bad seeds. Were I less powerful I might be able to imprison them on a permanent basis. Were I less powerful than that, I could imprison them but not be sure they could never escape. Why torture forever? I have been told lately about NDE (near death experiences) regarding life in Heaven as well as Hell.... I just don't see the point of Hell unless God feels the need for revenge and cannot remove bad souls from an existence he created. Did he set rules for himself he cannot break? I'M CONFUSED!!!! ( and don't want to go to Hell, of course!) I would think God would be logical and pragmatic in the long term.

So... this isn't a set of questions about whether or not God exists, there are enough of those threads in here already, instead its more for believers or learned persons and What's The Deal With Hell???????? Not Proof of Heaven or Hell, but WHY A HELL?

If strange men in big ships came to your sedentary peaceful village and told you about a god who watches everything you do and judges you and that if you are good you get paradise, but if you are bad then you go to eternal suffering, and you, as a lowly mundane tribal person with shiny beads and lots of fertile land were not innocent enough to be desperately afraid of eternal suffering then you too would submit to the powerful men with fire sticks and thunder that rains down from their floating islands..

Control.

Obey the moral codes I say come from god, and you are good. Continue in your heathen unchristian ways, and you go to hell.. We might even make the transition rather painful with fire and oil.

I can't seem to understand your confussion. But all humans are born innocent, this world is nothing but a trial for the next world to come. To say that some people are only born to be evil and thrown in hell is like saying that they have no free will, which every human does. Your free to do evil and at the same time you're free to do good. Everything will be judged in according to your intentions. God knows what's in your heart and he knows your intention.

What makes a human evil is the Qarin they are given, which is a form of evil that's put into their heart, every human has this. It's suppose to make you do good so that you may have a challenge to beat it and suffocating it. You can only keep this Qarin from making you do evil with good deeds that please Allah (God). And then there is Iblis:

In Islam, the Devil is known as ʾIblīs (Arabic: إبليس‎, plural: ابالسة ʾAbālisa) or Shayṭān (Arabic: شيطان‎, plural: شياطين Shayāṭīn). According to the Quran, God created Iblis out of "smokeless fire or from the pure flame of fire" (along with all of the other jinn) and created man out of clay. The primary characteristic of the Devil, besides hubris, is that he has no power other than the power to cast evil suggestions into the heart of men, women, and jinn, although the Quran does mention appointing jinn to assist those who are far from God in a general context. "We made the Shayatin (devils) ʾAwliyāʾ (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not." (سورة الأعراف al-ʾAʿraf, Chapter #7, Verse #27)

I'm telling you, if you really want to know the truth of life, go search for it. You can't expect to drink something without lifting something, can you? It's the same thing for truth, you have to seek it, you have to have the intention in your heart. Go read about religion and whatever there is.

There is a purpose for Hell and there is also a purpose for Paradise, this world is nothing but a trial. But you have to know that the Hereafter is Eternal. It is so because Allah (God) wills, even if we can't comprehend it.

The big hint of an answer is to be found in God's Law as given to Moses. Note that death is the ultimate penalty for transgression, with no threat of further punishment. In particular, note the Law of the Jubilee, which specifies that at certain set times, all debts are paid, and that even if we have had to sell ourselves into bondage for our debt, when the Jubilee is sounded, we go out free to our lands and inheritance. If we equate sin with debt, the implications are obvious: the consequences of sin are temporal, meaning no eternal punishment, no eternal torture, no eternal destruction. Ultimately, and that may take a long time, everyone goes free to their inheritance. In the end, we get off easy, but yet we must answer for our sins. It is still better to live a good life.

reply to post by jaxnmarko


Dear jaxnmarko,

What is the purpose of being sentient beings? You cannot have sentience without choice. Think about that for a second. Computers will never be sentient, they are programmed. Hell is not being burned, it is a choice. God does not send us to hell, we choose it. The best description we have of hell is eternal separation from God, it is where we are all that is. That is a choice by us and not him, he just allows us to choose.

reply to post by jaxnmarko


Hell exists only for fear and control.
That's why.

reply to post by jaxnmarko

I have been told lately about NDE (near death experiences) regarding life in Heaven as well as Hell.... I just don't see the point of Hell unless God feels the need for revenge and cannot remove bad souls from an existence he created. Did he set rules for himself he cannot break? I'M CONFUSED!!!!

Obviously God didn't 'create' those souls. That's some sort of assumption religious people accept, that came out of the Medieval period, I believe.
Souls are immortal, so they all existed at the same 'time' as God (or, the gods) did, before the creation of the physical universe.
So "God" did create rules he can't break, so to speak, but rather it was the collective mind of all the 'souls' of everyone who would ever exist in this universe, who created the "rules" that would govern that creation and everyone, including the gods, have to abide by them, so no, God can't just go through all the Hells in the universe clearing out all the souls He doesn't like for one reason or another.

16 minutes, the best video you will ever watch.

reply to post by Cinrad


Your God is an atheist. He has denied his Lord and Savior, and he followed the ways of his own sinful nature. He has a prideful nature and he will be judged. Now he will go to hell, but he is 100% loved.

reply to post by jaxnmarko


because Love is about ' choice'.
it is wonderful to be in love
to have the other ruling yóu.

but ' hell ' is when you feed upon others.
To fill the void in you.

'hell ' means: to not see the other.

but be imprisoned with your own void.

Whether or not hell is an actual place, I don't know. But if it's only a state of mind, the purpose for its existence remains the same. It is the code of conduct dictator. I prefer to see it as a state of mind. If you do something that you'll regret, that regret is hell. The feeling of regret is in place as part of our existence so that we can learn what actions we have taken that have caused this feeling and then correct our habits of behavior so that we don't feel it in the future.

No one wants to feel regret, and no one wants to go to hell. That is why they are so effective in their purpose. Hell islike the sum of all things wwe don't want to feel. It is the ultimate motivator for keeping us in line. Heaven is the reward and is also the ultimate motivator. Failure to acknowledge our situation, whatever it is, is ignorance. And ignorance will get you stuck making the same mistakes over and over again. Hell nor heaven will serve you very well if you don't acknowledge the lessons they teach.

reply to post by Lone12

Originally posted by Lone12
because Love is about ' choice'.

Any emotion is about choice, if that is what you choose to follow.

Originally posted by Lone12
it is wonderful to be in love
to have the other ruling yóu.

That's called being taken advantage of...

Originally posted by Lone12
but ' hell ' is when you feed upon others.
To fill the void in you.

'hell ' means: to not see the other.

but be imprisoned with your own void.

Contradiction. If you are by yourself and now aware of others, then you can't be actively feeding on them. Also, it is not 'imprisonment' if you CHOSE it.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Cinrad

 

Your God is an atheist. He has denied his Lord and Savior, and he followed the ways of his own sinful nature. He has a prideful nature and he will be judged. Now he will go to hell, but he is 100% loved.

My God is the first cause, there is no other god other than him, he created everything, HE IS.

Your signature is only telling half the truth, it is completely correct about love and acceptance, but I suspect what you mean by aceptance is a lot more than what the word actually means. In the video (audio really) it shows that God is love, not only does He accept everyone for what they are but also, since He has made them with free will, for the choices they make. He gives each person what they want.

If you reject your creator and the universe He has made, and choose to be your own God or God yourself, then you can have your own universe.... but considering you dont have the ability to create, it is going to be a boring, lonely universe - I dont want to be part of it and I dont see why anyone else would want to either. What it all boils down to is that you are an effect, not a cause - get over it. God loves you, I love you, we all love each other, stop sulking and join in the party.

Rev 19:9 Then the angel told me, "Put this in writing. God will bless everyone who is invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb." The angel also said, "These things that God has said are true."

reply to post by Cinrad

Originally posted by Cinrad
My God is the first cause, there is no other god other than him, he created everything, HE IS.

How typical of an Atheist, they is no God so they must be the God themselves...

Your God just wants to deny his creator.

Originally posted by Cinrad
If you reject your creator and the universe He has made, and choose to be your own God or God yourself, then you can have your own universe.... but considering you dont have the ability to create, it is going to be a boring, lonely universe - I dont want to be part of it and I dont see why anyone else would want to either. What it all boils down to is that you are an effect, not a cause - get over it. God loves you, I love you, we all love each other, stop sulking and join in the party.

Sorry, I do not love such individuals who promote slavery (whether to a God figure, or another person). I accept that they exist, if they want to believe in Slavery (of Gods) that is fine, but I want no part in it.

How can a just God both love and hate you at the same time? It's an oxymoron. If people can forgive the most egregious of crimes against others........feel safe, God is better than that. Give up the notion of hell. It's fear and control mechanism. Just try to do your best.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Cinrad

 

Originally posted by Cinrad
My God is the first cause, there is no other god other than him, he created everything, HE IS.

How typical of an Atheist, they is no God so they must be the God themselves...

Your God just wants to deny his creator.

How can you deny your creator if "there is no God" as you say? You are talking about Satan, Satan is not my God.

Originally posted by Cinrad
If you reject your creator and the universe He has made, and choose to be your own God or God yourself, then you can have your own universe.... but considering you dont have the ability to create, it is going to be a boring, lonely universe - I dont want to be part of it and I dont see why anyone else would want to either. What it all boils down to is that you are an effect, not a cause - get over it. God loves you, I love you, we all love each other, stop sulking and join in the party.

Sorry, I do not love such individuals who promote slavery (whether to a God figure, or another person). I accept that they exist, if they want to believe in Slavery (of Gods) that is fine, but I want no part in it.

Not slavery, sonship. And when I say sonship I mean as modeled in a perfect family, not the broken realtionships we see around us today - an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, eternal father and his daughter/son.

What interests me is what people think Hell is:if they believe in it. Some people literally believe in a Hell that is far under the ground and in the centre of the Earth. So what do you think Hell is? If it exists what would it look like? I was in a documentary that it was thought to be avery large place with millions of Demons, buildings cities to some. There was also supposed to be different levels.

If most levels of Hell have buildings, does it really sound that bad? People who over eat so Dante said go to a Hell of constant rain and mud. However if there are buildings this does not sound that bad. Would the develpment as far along as ours? This would mean there could be an internet. Maybe the best was to see if there was a Hell would be to look for very deep cables that should not be there, or very remots wireless internet. lol

Originally posted by jaxnmarko
I initially started writing a reply to another thread and then felt this issue deserves discussion all on its own. I have done so more in search of knowledge regarding collective thought on this rather than everyone's personal opinion (Church or other doctrine vs individual opinion) though I also appreciate the thoughts of fellow ATSers or input from ATSers with more experience on teachings than I have had.

I fail to see the point of Hell. If God is all powerful and created us all, then why not simply do away with all evil or Hell deserving souls? If there is a rabid dog, you destroy it, not torture it. Why torture for eternity? Revenge? If God is all powerful, can he not keep bad souls from escaping Hell? And if he can, why not just let them alone there on their own? Is Hell just the denial of God's love or is it horrors added to existence? Does the point of Hell mean there is a possibility of redemption even from Hell? Otherwise.... what is the need for Hell at all? Fear induced behavioral modification on this plane of life?

Were I all powerful I could "de-create" what I created. Eliminate the bad seeds. Were I less powerful I might be able to imprison them on a permanent basis. Were I less powerful than that, I could imprison them but not be sure they could never escape. Why torture forever? I have been told lately about NDE (near death experiences) regarding life in Heaven as well as Hell.... I just don't see the point of Hell unless God feels the need for revenge and cannot remove bad souls from an existence he created. Did he set rules for himself he cannot break? I'M CONFUSED!!!! ( and don't want to go to Hell, of course!) I would think God would be logical and pragmatic in the long term.

So... this isn't a set of questions about whether or not God exists, there are enough of those threads in here already, instead its more for believers or learned persons and What's The Deal With Hell???????? Not Proof of Heaven or Hell, but WHY A HELL?

edit on 26-2-2013 by jaxnmarko because: grammar

Questions inadvertantly contain the answer...but, the real question is...Why would anyone create a scapegoat and locum?...surely, the psychology of diversionary delusion couldn't be that old?...or could it?...Neat little package, tied with a 'blame' bow, holding it all together...The lengths taken to abrogate responsibility are endless...and in humans case, self fulfilling...

A99

Originally posted by jaxnmarko

Were I all powerful I could "de-create" what I created. Eliminate the bad seeds. Were I less powerful I might be able to imprison them on a permanent basis. Were I less powerful than that, I could imprison them but not be sure they could never escape. Why torture forever? I have been told lately about NDE (near death experiences) regarding life in Heaven as well as Hell.... I just don't see the point of Hell unless God feels the need for revenge and cannot remove bad souls from an existence he created. Did he set rules for himself he cannot break? I'M CONFUSED!!!! ( and don't want to go to Hell, of course!) I would think God would be logical and pragmatic in the long term.

So... this isn't a set of questions about whether or not God exists, there are enough of those threads in here already, instead its more for believers or learned persons and What's The Deal With Hell???????? Not Proof of Heaven or Hell, but WHY A HELL?[

Were YOU all powerful you would de-create your creation. I would have imagined you had thought this through before opening Pandora's box. God is an Autistic Being and only learns through your actions (ITS creation); so is not about to destroy its own TOYBOX in the process of forsaking learning (jealously protective). There are two Creators involved here, the one that went AWOL (not voluntarily) and the Other that is picking up the pieces. The only Hell is the one you have decided for yourself; on this Earth acted out real body real time or the other one that you have designed specifically for your joyous dead homecoming BACK to the netherworld (believe me you do this all by yourself); its comical.

In the bible: although there are now various versions: it was said "My God is a vengeful God". This pretty much sums up the reason for Hell. God has a Hell because he wants to, He wants to punish those that do not do as he/she/it wants. This is the main hub of the argument and the bible. God by nature is all powerful and so could have created things in a way which was better: after all God is by nature of being God all powerful. However some people do not believe in God at all.

But if you do then you will need to accept: if a catholic,christian: that God is vengeful.