Homeland Secuirty's Cache of Bullets.....The Math is Not Adding Up

news.yahoo.com...

Well....Ive crossed over...something is completely off here. The ammo stock up by DHS does not add up, and let me explain why for multiple reasons.

The Homeland Security Department wants to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years. It says it needs them — roughly the equivalent of five bullets for every person in the United States — for law enforcement agents in training and on duty.

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

So they need 1.6 billion rounds but are using 15 million rounds a year? That's over 100 years of worth of ammo. It also doesn't make sense that in a time of a huge shortage of ammo they are getting an efficient price.

At my department I get 30 rounds a year to qualify with. On SWAT I get about 500. The average officer in our area is putting down range 30 rounds a year. If DHS, lets say qualifies like us, that would mean 500,000 officers. Now assuming the DHS has more money and better training lets say they each get 500 rounds each a year. That is still 30,000 officers. I don't know how many agents have to qualify for DHS, and the numbers above are only using the 15 million a year. Now we can add the variable of having to qualify with .223 and .40 ammo which would change to maybe 500 rounds for 15,000 officers. Still only under the 15 million a year...not minding the 1.6 BILLION.

Either there is a typo in that article or something is up. I've crossed over onto the bandwagon and feel things are being put in place. The major hope is that for every person who wants to take guns there is one who wants to resist it. I really feel people are just preparing...including DHS/Federal Agencies because they don't know which way it will go. I don't think DHS has some evil plot...but they aint stupid either! I'm curious of the type of ammunition they got...

The article later mentions that it is for multiple agencies to include over 70,000 officers for training but we've already seen the Social Security Administration buying up ammo on their own for training (I think it was close to 200,000 rounds). I'm sure there is more data out of there of federal agencies buying their own ammo outside of this article.

Why am I worried? Because in my state, Illinois, they are looking at assimilating our good pension with the State's failing pension (including what they are doing to teachers as well). Also potentially forcing us to have their benefits which are a lot worse than what we have. State's are broke and getting very desperate. Economic collapse is a real possibility. You only have to look to countries like Iceland and Greece. Now imagine those countries with massive amounts of firearms and ammo? This is why the government is pushing this agenda. The standard of living in the US is going to get worse. This is not the end of the world, but I think this is enough evidence to show that the government is at the very least..uncertain with what will happen in the near future.

Sorry for the doom but....i'm on board now until convinced otherwise.

A lot of the bullets get sucked up into the warehouse system as just because you get lets say 3 boxes in your locker, the quartermaster you get your bullets from needs to have enough to probably supply 5 boxes per person instantly and the person he gets his supplies from needs enough to be able to probably provide the same for 20-30 places and then the central warehouses have to provide enough to supply those guys on demand meaning the central warehouses will need to have 10's of millions of rounds in stock

reply to post by cosmicexplorer


I haven't read the solicitation but they could be proposing an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (ID/IQ) contract with established minimums and maximums. I didn't think about that before on one of the other many threads on this subject. It makes some sense to have a maximum far above what they think they need in case of a SHTF scenario. Just because they are trying to contract for that much ammo does not mean they will be taking delivery on all of it. The contractor must however be able to provide the maximum quantity over they life of the contract. Bidders may not be able to promise that much so the bids may come in with a lower cap. Government Contracting is a mess sometimes, but there is probably a less doomish reason for this than we think.

Very possible to both above posts...it may well be nothing at all...but I personally believe there is enough intel on the subject that the possibility is there that they are gearing up. I can't find ammo anywhere...unless its a ridiculous price.

I have no understanding of massive government contracts like this. I know in the Army we would bury ammo because we had to use it all to get continue to the budget for it, but it was so much we had to make it disappear.

But regardless I feel its something to watch and has crossed into an area of interest. Like I said...I don't think there are evil intentions behind any of it..Im one of the few that in general supports the government...although it feels like an all time low we are at for government trust...but I also know for a fact they wouldn't tell us their concerns if they had them.

So that leaves us with responsibility to decipher what may be a valid intel assessment. Something to watch for sure!

Work recently took me close to the Mexican border, and because of this Border Patrols were a regular occurrence. Now what I saw on these border patrol pickups was different than the last time I ran into them (a good 10 years ago.)

In the past, border patrol vehicles said US Border Patrol - Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Now on the side of BP vehicles it states US Border Patrol - Department of Homeland Security.

Once I learned that DHS took over ICE, all of the ammo stockpiling scenarios make a little bit more sense.

reply to post by jssaylor2007


good info mate.....helps put it in perspective...i value first hand accounts of changes more than anything....if they took up the extra departments they may have over 30,000 agents needing to be qualified.

It really surprised me when I saw it, bc I was used to homeland security being purely the airport security. But for all I know, they may be a blanket agency now and encompass CIA FBI stuff. Dont take that as truth, I am just saying it wouldnt surprise me.

reply to post by jssaylor2007


Well and it also seems that would be the most effective....they often claim how one agency has intel that the other doesnt. I know where Im at its came up where one agency was working a case on a guy only to bump into another agency. It makes sense that DHS would be a central hub for everything.

reply to post by cosmicexplorer
well here you go , cavnews.wordpress.com... from the link

A solicitation posted yesterday on the Fed Bid website details how the bullets are required for the DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.

The solicitation asks for 10 million pistol cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds) and 10 million 9mm 115 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds).

The document also lists a requirement for 1.6 million pistol cartridge 9mm ball bullets (40 quantities of 40,000 rounds).

just a weekends worth of shooting er training seen some out well will not give location but yea a good weekend 3 days of shooting yea 1000 rounds per weapon no problem but why they use hollow point and not target rounds is thought provoking.

reply to post by cosmicexplorer
you are dead on with it is not the end of the world but the end of the world as you know it, , I have said for years on death ears that LEOs need more range time and situation training , the argument is that is what swat is for , ok swat gets to use 1000 total pre person 500 supplied 500 bought, not all buy there extra 500, so there you have a 500 round here every 6 months where as i used to spend time target shooting with 1000 or more of ammo over a 3 day week end , once weather gets good , will be going back making smoke, [black powder shooting for you lay persons], and no they are not the new BP, they are cap and ball ,and will still eat up 200 rounds, in 2 days 300 if i go on Fridays. Now why does not Leo's get to have the amount of time and more ammo , when it is their duty to know when and how to shoot? But say fed they get all the ammo they want, i remember the 80's when the mill had a ammo shortage , the feds still had a full amount.

reply to post by bekod


I need to go federal lol.....we use toy pistols now for training these days....thx for that stat...ya and with the type of ammunition.... I was looking for hollow points vs ball. Thx for posting that.

According to ask.com there are just short of 1M policemen employed in the U.S. That's a shocking number; I had guessed much less. Add in DHS personnel and other government agents and you have something over 1M. Most of them carry .40 cal. So, DHS has procured just about 1000 rounds per cop. Assuming DHS is stockpiling ammo for domestic use, that's a reasonable number if domestic war is contemplated.

The more interesting question to me is, where are all the .40 cal handguns coming from? There must be over 1M in the hands of police and government agents alone, let alone in the civilian population.

DHS probably has to show proposed expenditures to get more money from the government. The real quantity will probably be a lot less and at a premium price because of the defaulted contract. They will spend (waste) the rest of the money somewhere, don't be worried that they don't know how to hide their expenditures.

Maybe they are also buying the ammo for a future large Domestic Security Force (as promised by Obama). Perhaps someone in Congress should sponsor legislation to sell off the excess ammo (at a profit for the government) like they are doing with gold and silver thru the American Eagle program.