What's REALLY in the Affordable Care Act, aka "Obamacare"

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
reply to post by Circumstance

 

So the Silver plan is only $187 a month? Perfect! That's pretty cheap for health insurance.

don't forget the $2,000 plus deductible before you can get any coverage.

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by Ghost375

 

"You won't get thrown in jail. Quit spreading lies!"


oh good to know, so i can just forget about this and no worries, and the huge stack of fines that build up that i will never pay wont land me in jail either huh?


face it, dont pay , you will end up in jail one way or the other. or no one would care about this Bs and not pay it ROFL.

Did you even read the quotes that have been posted over and over? You are either fearful of something you don't understand correctly or you are just fearmongering. THERE IS NO AVENUE FOR THE IRS TO PURSUE THIS!!!!

From my previous posts, some actual facts:

"The ACA says the IRS should enforce the law by imposing a tax penalty—but then effectively blocks the agency from using most of the tools it normally uses to go after tax scofflaws."

"The ACA bars the IRS from bringing a criminal enforcement case against someone who refuses to pay the non-insurance penalty. And it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for it to enforce a tax lien."

That leaves only one tool—the IRS can subtract the penalty from any refund it owes a taxpayer. But that applies only if the IRS happens to owe somebody a refund."

"Only low-income households who receive refundable credits, such as the Earned Income Credit, always get refunds. But the ACA specifically exempts most of them from the tax because their income is so low."

"Notwithstanding the nutty Internet rumors that the IRS is hiring 20,000 revenue agents to collect the tax, most people who really want to game the system will probably get away with it."

Please feel free to prove me wrong if you can.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend...

He: Thinking of moving to the US
me: Dafuq why?
He: I like it there plus their health system is the best in the world.

I ended the conversation there.

I am actually going to need a hard copy of this to give you my professional opinion. Of this time, I have not had one in my physical possession, which is necessary.
AKA, ....cuz you say it's so, don't make it so.

Why does America always make it comlicated?

In Germany, we have a public health insurance, paid by the company you work for... or if you are unemployed, by the state.
btw. it is quite logical, that the company pays for it, since they want their employes to be healthy.
But this is another topic, the rights you have in America compared with the ones you have in Germany. In Germany you can't get fired within 1 day.
It covers everything you need and if you want some special service like bigger hospital rooms and stuff like that, you have to pay for a private health insurance.

But most people are happy with the basic one and they don't have to pay anything.

reply to post by usernameconspiracy


Obviously, you make a hell of a lot more money than I do. I'm 50 years old and have been working as a registered nurse for almost 30 years, making about $60,000 a year now - I've always have gotten a tax refund - I guess I'll be one of those people the IRS can tax the obozo tax from every year.

You're obviously a paid shill. Get a clue.

Originally posted by alienreality

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by jibajaba
opt out - if it's still an option.

cant, you'll get fined and thrown in jail, no joke.

Thats what we call freedom right?

edit on 12-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

I won't even be filing income taxes anymore because of this, if it is integrated into tax returns, I haven't yet done mine this year, so I haven't seen tax return documents yet.... I know this sounds crazy, but I just won't participate in something, especially after seeing how this thing won't even actually give any practical benefits..

All it looks like so far is a huge cost, and I will never pay for anything that doesn't actually give me something in return for the money.. Usually when you buy something, you receive something. but all you get with this is looking like you will pay money then just get more bills sent to you.. I won't pay money just to receive more documents that tell me to pay even more money, even though I haven;t actually received anything of value.. I mean, who would even consider participating in that kind of a sham?

Not me... If they want to throw me in jail for that then so be it.. I won't be forced by anyone to pay for a scam like this..
Paying for Obamacare makes about as much sense as sending money to some fake lottery email scam in Nigeria..

I don't see any difference in this as being any different than one of those 411 scams..

... I better stop ranting at this point or I might actually need some psychiatric care soon haha

Penalties don't go into effect until 2014 so you won't see them on your tax forms for 2012.

Also, what do you think the purpose of insurance is? It's to guard against the risk of incurring unanticipated expenses. No one "plans" to become sick or injured but believe me, if you were to find yourself in the hospital for any period of time, you'd be awfully grateful that you had health insurance coverage when you're hit with a bill for many thousands of dollars.

Also, I have no idea how old you are, but do you not have auto or home owner's insurance? The principle is the same...

Originally posted by foodstamp

Originally posted by Circumstance


This is what I suspected all along. Even if one does purchase the mandated health care insurance, in many cases the individual would find the deductibles unaffordable. The deductibles and co-insurance payments are ridiculous:

Forgive me if I am wrong, But in a capitalistic system wouldn't we find ourselves being afford by hospitals an incentive to have our deductible paid by health care providers that are competing for business? After all, these providers would be forced to compete for people that have the mandated insurance due to the fact that the numbers of people would be so many?

For example... Using Joe Blow car repair instead of "Carstar" because his business pays your deductible as opposed to Carstar whom does not? After all, deductible monies have always conventionally gone to the provider of services and not the "insurer" anyway...

This is true and the original intent was that the exchanges would generate this type of competition. People don't understand that the "Bronze, Silver and Platinum" plans are merely low-mid-high plans including the minimum essential beneift levels spelled out int he law. Carriers could offer plans with benefits anywhere between the low & high plans or above the high plan if they want.

Originally posted by Bicent76
they are going to have a hard time enforcing this. I think its going to keep people from going to the ER, if they do not have insurance, but if they are going to enforce this like they are saying and acting they better build allot of prisons because there are more poor uninsured people in USA, then many people realize.. Zero jobs out there worth anything in 2013, that provide health benefits.

you have to be kidding me, there is some ulterior motive here just dunno what it is really..

If the government really cared about its citizens we would have health insurance like they have in the EU... Not thousands of pages slicing the pie in the sky for lobbyists insurance companies and the government...

Bottom line is that we're still many months away from this point (actually more than a year since your 2014 taxes won't be due until 2015) and no one knows how they are going to enforce it. We know that the IRS has been given authority to assess any penalties, but there's been no mechanism developed for them doing so as of yet...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Circumstance

 

I got to experience Obama care first hand... The notion that pre-existing conditions are covered and cant be denied is absolutely false.

If a person has a medical issue and ends up going to a new job, he will continue to be covered under the new employers insurance provided 63 days have not passed since leaving one job and going to another. The moment you go outside of that time frame, the insurance companies can deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Obama Care is nothing but Pandoras Box.

Yes you are right, but only until 2014. The law was written with specific implementation dates on different provisions. This is one of many reasons why interpretation and implementation of the law has been so difficult. With that said, it's not until a plan's anniversary date in 2014 that all pre-x conditions must be covered (except for children under the age of 19, for which this became effective on the plan's first anniversary date following 9/23/2010). What you're referring to is continuity of coverage under HIPAA which has nothing to do with Obamacare.

Insofar as your comment about Pandora's Box is concerned, I'm not necessarily arguing or disagreeing ib this point with you. I'm merely providing facts.

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by Ghost375

 

"You won't get thrown in jail. Quit spreading lies!"


oh good to know, so i can just forget about this and no worries, and the huge stack of fines that build up that i will never pay wont land me in jail either huh?


face it, dont pay , you will end up in jail one way or the other. or no one would care about this Bs and not pay it ROFL.

Did you even read the quotes that have been posted over and over? You are either fearful of something you don't understand correctly or you are just fearmongering. THERE IS NO AVENUE FOR THE IRS TO PURSUE THIS!!!!

From my previous posts, some actual facts:

"The ACA says the IRS should enforce the law by imposing a tax penalty—but then effectively blocks the agency from using most of the tools it normally uses to go after tax scofflaws."

"The ACA bars the IRS from bringing a criminal enforcement case against someone who refuses to pay the non-insurance penalty. And it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for it to enforce a tax lien."

That leaves only one tool—the IRS can subtract the penalty from any refund it owes a taxpayer. But that applies only if the IRS happens to owe somebody a refund."

"Only low-income households who receive refundable credits, such as the Earned Income Credit, always get refunds. But the ACA specifically exempts most of them from the tax because their income is so low."

"Notwithstanding the nutty Internet rumors that the IRS is hiring 20,000 revenue agents to collect the tax, most people who really want to game the system will probably get away with it."

Please feel free to prove me wrong if you can.

You are absolutely 100% correct but this has become a thread for people to voice their anger over the law without any consideration for whether or not they know the facts.

People - you need to take some responsibility for educating yourselves on the facts or your sheepledom merely transfers to a different puppetmaster (in this case, the person who wrote the misleading article on which the original OP was predicated).

I'm done with trying to lend some unbiased education to this thread and it's up to you, usernameconspiracy, but I don't think you're going to get anywhere...

reply to post by timidgal


Under the "essential benefits" clause, means that my insurance plan needs to include - birth control coverage, abortion coverage, transsexual surgery coverage - how many other things that I don't need. In fact, I'd like to have a high deductible and only catastrophic coverage (in case I am in an accident, or develope cancer, MS) because I am fortunate enough to not have a chronic disease at the present time.

But this is not allowed under obozocare.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by timidgal

 

Under the "essential benefits" clause, means that my insurance plan needs to include - birth control coverage, abortion coverage, transsexual surgery coverage - how many other things that I don't need. In fact, I'd like to have a high deductible and only catastrophic coverage (in case I am in an accident, or develope cancer, MS) because I am fortunate enough to not have a chronic disease at the present time.

But this is not allowed under obozocare.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that there should have been some type of catastrophic plan option included in the law (other than that allowed for those under 30) but again, just because you don't have a chronic disease right now, doesn't necessarily mean that you won't in the future.

Plus, there are more essential health benefits a typical person will be able to avail themselves of other than the extreme examples you cited including ambulatory patient services. emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services (including behavioral health treatment), prescription drugs (other than birth control), rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices, laboratory services, preventive and wellness services and.pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

Originally posted by olaru12


Follow the money.........

Who really profits from Obamacare? The INSURANCE companies!!

The Corpratracy is alive and well! How the conservatives can call this socialism is astonishing when it's crony capitalism at it's finest.

www.bloomberg.com...

Are you aware of what National Socialism is? It doesn't sound like you do...

It's the definition of crony capitalism. Companies are privately owned, but the government instructs them on how they must operate. When companies don't follow the letter of the law and regulations enacted by a central government the central government shuts them down. That's Nazism, which is short for National Socialism.

You can not regulate 50,000 small businesses very efficiently in any given industry, but if an industry is 90% comprised by 10 large corporations that have a top down bureaucracy that makes it a lot easier to get government regulations run through them.

One party sets up the corporations, the other regulates them...and this is by the design of both parties. They act like they hate each other, but in reality they couldn't need each other more and couldn't be more on the same page.

Many TEA Party rank and file understand this. It's why the TEA Party is hated by both the Democrat and Republican rank and file. But it seems the slander campaign has worked as most people still want to live by their party lines.

When people talk about Progress what do they mean? Progressive. The idea of the Progressive movement was and is to establish a Socialist state over many generations bit by bit, law by law, regulation by regulation, as to avoid a bloody revolution and a resistance party. It's why when Hillary publicly announced she was a Progressive it was so alarming, she basically publicly stated she was a Nazi (again, National Socialist)...a crony capitalist...but the Progressives have done such a great job with re-defining the language we use that most people don't understand what it means...unless of course you are a student of the Progressive movement. Then you know EXACTLY what she said and what was meant. Most people think that in order to be a Nazi (National Socialist aka Crony Capitalist) you must hate Jews and minorities and murder millions. You only need those things if you don't have the patience to enact Socialist policy over say a hundred years.

The analogy of the Progressive movement: Don't put the frog in boiling water, it'll instinctively jump out of the pot...increase the temperature over time and finally the frog will be boiling never once attempting to jump out of the pot. HINT: In that analogy you are the frog.

Keep living blind and repeating the slander of the philosophy trying to free you. Mark my words, while there are many who say they will die for their rights, and they will and they will die, there will be no one willing to spill blood for those who chose to remain ignorant. Many will die free men for freedom is a choice, the rest will be slaves whether they are aware of their shackles or not.

Welcome to america, we take your money, but we should shove it up our rear.

reply to post by aLLeKs


Why of so difficult in America? well I have to agree with you, is always difficult in America the land of the free, the for profits and corrupted government whores been paid by private interest pimps.

See when a nation population loses their power over the leaders what we have is a Corporate dictatorship then you know who is been favored in the US and is not the people.

Now to add more to the subject, yes the IRS is going to enforce the penalties/taxes yes the Obama bailout to the insurance companies will gouge the people by mandate aka taxes and yes people that work and earn something will be targeted, anybody else good luck with Medicaid

And that is what is going to happen, people can fall on their butts and turn blue trying to justified Obamacare and the good for the people it will bring but that is nothing but propaganda, the only good is going to do is for the for profit insurance companies and the big mobsters in the big pharma industry, the medical institution well so far will get a short no so sweet end of the deal

Originally posted by timidgal

You are absolutely 100% correct but this has become a thread for people to voice their anger over the law without any consideration for whether or not they know the facts.

People - you need to take some responsibility for educating yourselves on the facts or your sheepledom merely transfers to a different puppetmaster (in this case, the person who wrote the misleading article on which the original OP was predicated).

I'm done with trying to lend some unbiased education to this thread and it's up to you, usernameconspiracy, but I don't think you're going to get anywhere...

Nope. I only stopped by to counter lies with facts. If one chooses to ignore the facts, that's fine with me. Sometimes I get caught up in the moment when people are either too lazy to comprehend facts, or are simply unwilling to see anything other than what their "doom and gloom" outlook on life allows them to see.

It appears the federal government doesn't have enough ways to tap into your till as of yet so it seems they'll be adding another...

and another... and another...

And about a thousand or so more this year alone...