Evidence To Prove We Are Not a Complete Species...

reply to post by luciddream


I do not agree as it has been proven evolution can occur within a few years to a decade.

Just look at the fact that some are born with no appendixes and some with no wisdom teeth. These are examples of evolution which has occured since our species walked on two legs. Why has evolution not smoothed out childbirth for Women then?

Considering that without modern medicine or technology the average survival rate of both Mother and child 100 years ago was less than 50% sir

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Sir I never meant anything bad by suggesting that childbirth pains and sometimes death is a "curse". I was merely quoting a verse from Genesis in the Bible to perhaps explain another reason why childbirth is so dangerous without modern medicine or technology.

No offence intended I promise

reply to post by angryhulk


I do not agree with you on the Salmon example. Those Fish swim hundreds of miles from their natural habitat as adults (the Sea) upstream (fresh water). Jumping waterfalls and thousands of other obstacles. Not eating all the way. When they arrive at their spawning pools to lay their eggs they are exhausted from malnutrition and do not "just die" natrually.

In some ways you have a point so we can agree to not agree on this one my friend

reply to post by Xquizit


I never said childbirth was a "curse" on Women. This is what god said in the Bible actually. I was just using that to try and make a point

As for Women being "tough cookies" I do not doubt that. My Wife is 5 months pregnant as we speak but that does not change the fact that so many Mothers and children died during and then even after childbirth from infections or other ailments.

reply to post by Unity_99


Hi Unity_99,

I read this post of yours, and found it very interesting:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sleeper said that the human body is designed as a pain machine, so we're supposed to overcome harming others and past the bloodshed and murder conducted on this planet.

I like the idea of human bodies as pain machines.

I have a few questions:

Who is "Sleeper"? A user on ATS?

Do you perhaps know where he posted this idea?

I would like to read where "Sleeper" posted this idea originally.
It is a fascinating idea.

Thank you
QMask

Originally posted by ShaunSwindon
I say this because along with standing on two legs came the growth of our brains and thus the size of our heads grew. Further making childbirth a life threatening experience for both Mother and Child. Why did nothing else grow? Or expand? Or evolve?

Nothing else grew because that is not how evolution works.

Childbirth is still dangerous because eliminating it does not provide a selection advantage for evolution to work with.

I dont think its that difficult for women........Its just that they do it wrong.

Human woman are suppose to be squatting on their legs for childbirth, not laying back with legs spread wide.

Just like the "Native" cultures still do.

Ever see a Horse or dog laying on its back with its legs apart?...No they lay on their side.

Even this is effective for human women.

Ever been camping and had to squat behind a bush to have a poop.......its the best poop you'll ever have.

sitting on toilets is not the "Natural" way either.

Nothing is designed wrong.....just mans interpretation of doing normal things, has altered.

The Hebrew word usually translated as "pain" in that Genesis passage denotes labour and toil.
Before Jesus' death and resurrection (birth), he travailed through cries, moans, tears, anguish.
"Pain like a woman in labour" throughout scripture signifies real anguish. So when Paul wrote that he was experiencing the pains of labours....it's a metaphor for experiencing anguish.

The physical is a shadow of spiritual. The joy of a newborn baby is a reflection of the spiritual reality of being born again in Christ - the birth of a new creature that through much anguish, tears and physical and mental hardships as the old self is torn out and replaced by the new. The baby moving from the darkness to the light.

And the joy experienced by parents as their child is birthed physically eclipses all the suffering that must be endured to bring that baby to life. They don't forget the pain of the labour, but the miracle of that new babe entering the world of light is often a tremendous spiritual event, even if not from a Christian understanding, because Our Creator designed everything in our natural world to represent a higher spiritual reality.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


I think you missed my point completely

Experiencing pain and anguish is one thing but 100 years ago yours and your unborn childs chances of surviving childbirth was around 50%. Then after childbirth infections and complications were also deadly.

My point if you missed it is wild animals do not have a 50% chance of dying when they give birth. In my opinion wild animals are natural products of nature and their evolution is as near "perfect" as one can find. Humans on the other hand years ago were dying of the common cold before penicilin was introduced to modern society by Alexander Fleming back in 1928.

Short story = why are wild animals so much tougher than we are. Childbirth being a simple example of our frailty

reply to post by ShaunSwindon


If an animal dies in childbirth, the child dies too. The allele of said animal dies along with the child.

If a human dies in childbirth, the child lives on due to the social nature of humans. The allele survives.

reply to post by ShaunSwindon

THIS IS THE GREATEST POST I AM SEEING, WELCOMING A NEWER AGE.
ITS ALL TRUTH & NO PAIN.
THE TOTAL DOMINANT POINT THAT HAS TO COME ACROSS IN OUT EVERYWHERE IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WHO CRIES & MOANS ABOUT PAIN HAS OBVIOUSLY NEVER BEEN COMPLETELY OPEN-MINDED OF LIFE & NEVER GAVE THOUGHT TO THE PROCESS OF NATURAL R.EVOLUTION
THIS IS WHERE IT ALL BECAME A TRICK.=>THE INTRODUCTION OF RELIGIONPARENTING=>CHOICES-MEDIA..INFLUENCES. choosing between or just simply. Accepting THE BEST.
THIS IS A FACT WHICH IS WHY WE...SPEAKING LOUD & CLEAR TO YOU...SHAUNSWINDON.
PROVING HOW THE GREATEST MINDS EVER EXISTING ARE WORK IN SYNC.

reply to post by Dispo


Dispo this thread is not so much about focussing on the pain aspect of childbirth but rather on why has our bodies not evolved along with us walking on two legs. Much like some people are born today with no appendixes or wisdom teeth. These are signs of evolution actively changing us to suite our lifestyles.

Why after walking on two legs for over 200 000 years has female Humans not evolved to make childbirth a less dangerous and painful experience?

reply to post by Awakened2012


Many thanks kind sir

reply to post by ShaunSwindon


Because evolving to protect women during childbirth does not provide a significant, if any, selection advantage for natural selection to work on.

reply to post by ShaunSwindon


hey we got a better chance the little baby fish swimming in the pond, or some of the sea turtles that have to dodge the diving birds in a race to the sea....

but the fish, the turtles seem to take what life throws at them a little better, don't they. or maybe they just don't have the conscious thought to know that they more than likely will die very early in life....
they can't rationalize death or pain as being bad....
humans do, and thus, we make the pain much much worse within our minds....

and, I've watched cats in labor, they've seemed to have a little pain involved in the process also...
but, like I said, they don't have the thought process to move that along to the next thought...pain is bad, pain is to be avoided at all costs...oh pain, just go away!!!