Strange Aeroplane Manoeuvre over North Wales Dec 11th 2012

I have named the title "strange aeroplane manoeuvre" because I cannot confirm this plane was a commercial airliner but I do think this is what it was for the simple reason I have never seen any other aircraft make contrails in the skies above us.

On Dec 11th my wife came home around 1pm (UK time) and said she saw an aeroplane that was producing a contrail make an unusual manoeuvre overhead, she only had her iPhone with her but decided to take a couple of photos for me to see.
Around 15 minutes past from when she took the photos to when she returned home and showed me so I immediately went outside with my camera (Canon 400d) to see if I could see anything.

Unfortunately the plane was nowhere to be seen but I took some pictures of the contrails it left behind.

I have provided the images here in this thread along with some "doodled" versions so show the flight path and I find it very interesting & puzzling.

We live in North Wales (along the Menai strait) and it is normal to see contrails in the sky above us but I have never ever seen one turn so drastically and in fact we only ever see straight contrails with the occasional one with a slight change in direction of a few degrees.

What is so strange about these images is not that the plane turns back on itself but rather the manner in which it makes multiple directional changes to achieve this which are not normal. In other words if the plane just made a regular turn and headed back from the direction it came (leaving a circular type contrail) I would not be surprised but this is not really like that and the pictures will show what I mean.

Anyone else seen this before?
Can anyone explain why the plane would make multiple direction changes to reach it's new flightpath and not just one?



here is the best pic she took with her iPhone


This shows side by side comparison of the route the plane took.


this one is what I took with my Canon 400d which clearly shows the "circular" contrail and also the possibility of a 2nd one prior to this although my wife did not see another one.

reply to post by welshreduk


hi im from the south nice to meet another welshy

reply to post by welshreduk


Your answer lies here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I saw this same picture on my facebook feed the other day, and for the life of me I can't find it.... maybe I've finally lost the plot.

It's a holding pattern. The holding patterns are in particular positions, and you have to flying into it, and out of it, which is why you can get these odd crossing patterns sometimes. Also the wind can blow the trail so it looks like the plane is crossing its track when it's actually not.

See
contrailscience.com...

and a similar example from Los Angeles
contrailscience.com...

Originally posted by Uncinus
It's a holding pattern. The holding patterns are in particular positions, and you have to flying into it, and out of it, which is why you can get these odd crossing patterns sometimes. Also the wind can blow the trail so it looks like the plane is crossing its track when it's actually not.

See
contrailscience.com...

and a similar example from Los Angeles
contrailscience.com...

edit on 13-12-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

If by holding pattern you mean as aircraft wait their turn to land (circling overhead) this is definitely not what was going on.

I can say this with confidence because the plane was making this manoeuvre to the south of where the photos were taken. That puts the plane over the Welsh mountains of Snowdonia and anyone who knows the region will know this is nowhere near any UK airport.

Whatever the reason for this behaviour it certainly was not circling to land and also note that I have never ever seen this before so if it was a holding pattern I would have noticed before now.

reply to post by welshreduk


As the post above that one pointed out, it's the Voyager tanker doing acceptance testing. The latest one is in testing.

Originally posted by welshreduk

I can say this with confidence because the plane was making this manoeuvre to the south of where the photos were taken. That puts the plane over the Welsh mountains of Snowdonia and anyone who knows the region will know this is nowhere near any UK airport.

Puts it right next to RAF Valley though.

Originally posted by welshreduk

Originally posted by Uncinus
It's a holding pattern. The holding patterns are in particular positions, and you have to flying into it, and out of it, which is why you can get these odd crossing patterns sometimes. Also the wind can blow the trail so it looks like the plane is crossing its track when it's actually not.

See
contrailscience.com...

and a similar example from Los Angeles
contrailscience.com...

edit on 13-12-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

If by holding pattern you mean as aircraft wait their turn to land (circling overhead) this is definitely not what was going on.

I can say this with confidence because the plane was making this manoeuvre to the south of where the photos were taken. That puts the plane over the Welsh mountains of Snowdonia and anyone who knows the region will know this is nowhere near any UK airport.

Whatever the reason for this behaviour it certainly was not circling to land and also note that I have never ever seen this before so if it was a holding pattern I would have noticed before now.

Holding patterns are just what a plane does when it wants to stay in a particular region. It does not imply that the plane is "waiting to land". It could be performing tests, doing pilot training, or waiting for another plane (in-flight refueling, for example).

Planes can also be put in holds a LONG way from their destination, hundreds of miles away, simply because ATC is scheduling traffic. See the examples in this video, at about 20 seconds in you get lots of planes being put into holds hundreds of miles to the west of their destinations on the East Coast.

Puts it right next to RAF Valley though.

Yes but I have lived in this region all my life and I have never seen this before.
I have seen all sorts of planes here daily and never seen this.

My gut feeling is this aircraft was a commercial jet and although I am open to the possibility it was being put into a "holding position" why did it then continue in a completely different direction?

I am not really a chemtrail believer and that was not why I posted, I just wanted to know of what it "might" have been and "holding position" is a reasonable explanation but my gut feeling says no.

Originally posted by welshreduk

Puts it right next to RAF Valley though.

Yes but I have lived in this region all my life and I have never seen this before.
I have seen all sorts of planes here daily and never seen this.

My gut feeling is this aircraft was a commercial jet and although I am open to the possibility it was being put into a "holding position" why did it then continue in a completely different direction?

I am not really a chemtrail believer and that was not why I posted, I just wanted to know of what it "might" have been and "holding position" is a reasonable explanation but my gut feeling says no.

I've lived here (Los Angeles) 20 years, and I've seen it twice. Depending on where you live it can be very uncommon. Some places it can happen daily.

Unless you can see the plane, why would you think it's a commercial jet? The fact that it left in a different direction would seem to indicate it was not.

Originally posted by welshreduk

If by holding pattern you mean as aircraft wait their turn to land (circling overhead) this is definitely not what was going on.

I can say this with confidence because the plane was making this manoeuvre to the south of where the photos were taken. That puts the plane over the Welsh mountains of Snowdonia and anyone who knows the region will know this is nowhere near any UK airport.

there is no actual need for a holding pattern to be particularly close to an airport - they can be 100 miles away or more.

Scheduling aircraft to arrive at the right time can mean you are holding almost anywhere in the flight - aircraft arrival times at waypoints are predicted with pretty tight tolerances - IIRC if they are more than 2 minutes out it becomes an event requiring reporting to the relevant aviation authority.

I noticed this as well, I was working in Mold ,North Wales on Tuesday 11 dec 2012, I'll try to attach my photo

reply to post by welshreduk


Not a commercial aircraft. Go onto Flight Radar, zoom into your region and run the playback for the period.

www.flightradar24.com...

Nothing unusual in seeing high altitude contrails over Snowdonia and especially ones showing twists, turns and looping back on themselves.

You will be aware that there is low level military training areas in Snowdonia. One of the frustrations of the photographers that frequent the low level areas is watching and hearing aircraft on the radio staying at high altitude. I've sat and watched from the mountain low fly areas two RAF Eurofigher Typhoons up at 40,000 feet and contrailing all over the sky as they conducted air combat training. USAF F-15 Eagles from RAF Lakenheath are also regular visitors to Snowdonia and you will often see then contrailing at high altitude as they transit or conduct air combat training in the region. Nothing unusual in seeing the type of contrails that you photographed over Snowdonia.

Sometimes the aircraft transit at high altitude over the top of the commerical upper air routes and then drop down into the low flying areas.

You could see the contrails as they dropped in over Welshpool some 30 miles away.

www.davidellinsphotography.com...

i live on anglesey , cant say that ive seen anything like this , there are a load of straight line trails over my area all the time but never a loop , RAF valley is around 10+ miles from the straights so i doubt that it was anything to do with landing .
cant say i think to much of it at the moment to be honest , now if this happens again then i think we might have something here
thanks for the find dude , ill keep my eyes open ! see if we can see more

rascal