The Anunnaki: in Reality

I'm sure that an argument, flame war, and name-throwing contest is going to start due to this thread. I've seen how religiously ATS users hold on to their false theories on the Anunnaki around here. However, being that Sumerian and West Asian spirituality is, and has been for the past decade, the foundation for my modern metaphysical beliefs, I felt it was necessary to try and add some counterweight to the awful Anunnaki beliefs which tend to permeate the ATS boards.

The goal of this thread is simple: offer a place for those with a true interest in Sumeriology, Assyriology, and Mesopotamian mythology, spirituality, religious, and cultural interest to begin their undertaking. To do this, we have to cut through the massive mess of misinformation concerning this amazing culture and their beliefs. I'll consider my efforts a success if I can help even one honestly interested individual do this.

As an opener, I would like to present this wonderful video:



The above video is a twenty-one minute debunking video, centered around the History Channel show, "Ancient Aliens." While I hope that "Ancient Aliens" is not taken seriously on ATS (as it is atrociously biased, and rampant with false information), I find the narrators presentation of evidence to be the best quick summary of the false information circulating about the Anunnaki. The documentary covers a variety of topics including the definition of the terms "Anunna" and "Anunnaki," the erroneous claims of Zecharia Sitchin's fantasy works concerning Nibiru and the gold-mining Anunnaki, the Apkallu and Lamassu statues and carvings commonly, falsely, depicted as the Anunnaki, and more. For those with more viewing time available (3 hours roughly) the entire video, with better audio, is also available here:



Nearly all of the ancient astronaut theory, as covered by "Ancient Aliens" is expounded, explained, and corrected with in-depth analysis. Likewise, the companion website, located here, offers an in-depth explanation of the sources used during the debunking documentary. Finally, there is also this website which features an exhaustive, in-depth, and continuing debunking of the works of Zecharia Sitchin, who is responsible for all of the misinformation, mistranslation, and blatant lies circulating about the Anunnaki which have been picked up by ancient astronauts, David Icke, and other New Age metaphysics and philosophies.

I know that I have just dropped a massive amount of viewing and reading for a simple thread, and I know that many ATSers won't actually pay attention, as they're quite content to believe that the Anunnaki are space aliens from the planet Nibiru who genetically engineered human beings to mine gold for them... but I just wanted a thread with actual, honest, historical information concerning such a deep, rich, and interesting mythological cycle available for reference in future ATS threads.

Good luck in uncovering the reality of the Anunnaki.

~ Wandering Scribe

Well thank you! This is very timely for me as I have just started to become interested in this particular subject only recently - mainly because I've seen posts mentioning the Anunnaki and frankly at the time, I had no idea what it/they/whatever was at all.

I will watch the cliff note version now and the longer version at a later time when I have more of an attention span but again thank you

ETA: "winged genies aren't Anunnaki."

"If it is a watch than these genies were serious about timekeeping because they wore one on both wrists and often on a headband."

...I LOL'd and scared the cat.

Thanks for posting these vids. I am fascinated by Sumerian culture and am frustrated by the (mainly) hocum I find on the subject that is available on the net. Ancient Aliens? Well, I always did enjoy a good fairy story Of course it's not to be taken seriously - how can people with such crazy hair have sound minds?

interesting! i started learning abou the sumerian culture/beliefs before the ancient alien show started,and i have never read a book penned by mr . sitchin!
i first learned about sumeria via the necronomicon!
later by h.p. lovecraft (cool author!)
with that info alone,it peaked my curiosity about their gods,and the like.
i'm a bit of a student of religion/mythology, so i wanted to learn more!
any way, i look foward to watching the vids (later-after dinner!) and i will try to comment afterwards!
thanks again!
cheers

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I love this subject. I only watched the shorter video. I will watch the longer one later. One thing that struck me however was towards the end when they were arguing which text is more accurate. They come up with reasoning that as a result of comparing different writings either during the same time period or not that the Sumerians were "sloppy". They continue that the Hebrew transmission of the creation story were somehow perfect even though it was recorded thousands of years later.

Also they argue that the Sumerian creation story cannot be the first, even though it is the earliest one that is known to exist. They say that there must be an earlier creation story but where is that one?

I think that there is so much disinformation about ancient writings that have been "translated" and so many different motives for the translations. But, it is nice to have other information. For me, jury is out.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I've read all the Creation Epics. It comes down to interpretation. You can either interpret it metaphorically or literally.

The creation epics claim we are created to do the work of the Annunaki who rebelled against the High Gods who were overworking them. I believe it as a literal explanation because fantasy is fun and as far as I can tell there is nothing to dispute the possibility of it being literal events.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

I'll consider my efforts a success if I can help even one honestly interested individual do this.

S&F

Consider your efforts a success indeed - one very interested individual here.

Just wanted to say thanks for the wealth of information - have another cool Avatar if you wish.......



It apparently translates as Freedom / Liberty

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Thank you for the videos. I have watched all of the episodes of Ancient Aliens and over time found them to be very one-sided in their arguments that make assumptions based on the idea that aliens did visit us in the ancient past rather than making arguments to prove that aliens visited ancient cultures of man.

It's nice to see a well-crafted opposing argument - which is true of any subject.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Thank you WanderingScribe. Sitchin did a great deal of harm in distorting fact and sending people in a direction that served the agenda of the elite. Threads like this will shed light and reveal enough to make people delve deeper hopefully.

S&F

reply to post by Miri08


You're welcome! I happened upon the video today myself, and was so impressed by the succinct tackling of the subject that I felt it deserved an ATS mention.

The comical elements are what I would expect anyone who watched a season of "Ancient Aliens" to reply with as well.

reply to post by christina-66


You're welcome! I get a nice laugh out of the show as well.

reply to post by reficul


I too began my study of Sumeria with the Necronomicon... more specifically the Gates study, as it was far more in-depth. While I don't agree with everything Simon suggests, I do support his idea of cultural spreading. The original Necronomicon is kind of lacking in that element, I thought.

If you're very interested, try the written works of Samuel Noah Kramer, John Maier, C. Leonard Woolley, Stephanie Dalley, Diane Wolkstein, and Shlomo Izre'el. The mythology, spirituality, and complexity is quite unexpected when one observes the entire corpus of Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian, and West Asian mythology as a whole.

reply to post by GrantedBail


I agree with you.

I, personally, hold the Sumerian versions as the closest to the original experience. I may be slightly biased, as a modern-day acolyte of Inanna, Ninurta, and Nidaba though, ha ha.

I can understand why the narrator did that. It was in the honesty of fairness. His point, I think, was to compare the poetic nature of Sumerian writings (which, it is true, some of their writing is amazingly poetic and fun to read!) and that of the Hebrews, who treated it as sacred documents they'd be killed over if they mistranslated a single letter.

It was more of a cultural comparison than anything else, I think.

reply to post by Sublimecraft


Thank you! I've saved the avatar, and may utilize it on ATS in the future.

Freedom, as a term, does have its origin in Sumer. During the reign of Urukagina (2380-2360 BC) many attempts were made by him to equalize the social strata of Sumer and the growing Mesopotamian lands. He is, often, considered to be humanity's first proponent of social equality. The word found throughout his documents which became a freedom cry is amargi which translates as "return to the mother," as in everyone having the same origins.

reply to post by MrCipher


Glad the video has interested you so much. I hope you continue to seek out the well-crafted arguments for, and against, everything in life.

reply to post by Egyptia


You're welcome! As a modern practicioner of Sumerian-themed spirituality I feel it is partially my duty to my gods to make sure that misinformation and lies do not get spread when I can help to clear the misconception.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Have you read the Babylonian, or the Sumerian creation mythologies? Because both say slightly different things, and neither necessarily agrees with your description.

The Anunnaki, or Great Gods as they're sometimes called, are the ones whom the Igigi (Sky and Earth gods) complain to about their work load. It is not the Anunnaki who are complaining. Also, the work load is not due to mining, but to maintaining the plethora of new species and life which have covered Dilmun, Erech, Ur, Nippur, and the other sacred cities since Enki and Nintu (often called Ninhursag) began mating and producing all manner of life.

I'll search later on, because somewhere on ATS I'm pretty sure I posted a re-telling of both the Enuma Elish, and the Paradise Myth featuring Enki and Nintu. No guarantee I'll find them, as I may have posted them elsewhere, but I'll search.



Thank you everybody for the replies so far. I am glad to see the video, and interest in true Sumerian and Mesopotamian history alive and well on ATS.

~ Wandering Scribe

All kinds of "aliens" have visited Earth, many are still here, many are in the process of a preparation for the return of "Other Races" to Earth - of course this is a long term plan, and the population must be forced to "submit".

Too bad, I have Type O Negative Blood, Blue Eyes, Blonde Hair, Obviously Caucasian, and in My Extended Family is a History of 32 Degree Masons. I guess I'm not special

Chris White, despite of or because of (depending on how you look at it) his Christian belief (and perhaps agenda), is one of the better 'conspiracy theorists' out there. He has debunked a lot of shills in this "truth industry" who use the gullibility of people to make profit. He is able to clearly and lucidly explain his point of view and systematically debunk many of the false ideas that are out there. Even if he is wrong, I respect anyone who challanges the popular belief (in alternative media world at least).

This is a fantastic thread. S & F

While i do not necessarily agree with ancient sumerian/babylonian philosophy, it is absolutely invaluable that people understand the significance of what it's mythology, like all mythology, is all about.

You can blame the idiot zecharia Sitchin, I suppose, for popularizing the ancient alien nonsense and distorting all understanding of the parallelism between narrative and reality that myth was designed to reflect. Now we have a whole army of people who believe this silliness.

It's philosophy. Not a naive recording of past human relations with "aliens".

I guess it's not a coincidence that it took someone who grew up in an atheist/communist country to misunderstand that.

Also, I'd like to clarify the nonsense about the idea of nephilim. Nephilim, is derived from the Hebrew word, Nafal, Nun-Pey-Lamed. Nafal means 'to fall'. The word nephilim is derived from this word, and as a noun, it can refer to the idea of a 'giant'.

Take for example the narrative where the 10 scouts enter Israel and observe the Nephilim from afar. The scouts say

"We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

Any erudite reader will notice the concept of projection in this narrative. The nephilim are the 'giants' that cloud ones perception of the good, resulting in a "fall" in self esteem. Thus, we are 'grasshoppers' in our eyes. And, with projection, if one is small in ones own eyes, so too you appear in the eyes of others.

It takes intellectual and spiritual maturity to understand these narratives. They are not as they are generally thought to be.

Originally posted by SystemResistor
All kinds of "aliens" have visited Earth, many are still here, many are in the process of a preparation for the return of "Other Races" to Earth - of course this is a long term plan, and the population must be forced to "submit".

You've just watched Men in Black 3 haven't you?

reply to post by SystemResistor


I do not doubt the existence of life elsewhere in the universe. The universe is far too large, and still expanding, for there not to be a repetition of the conditions which lead to evolution here on Earth. I am less inclined to believe that they have advanced, interstellar space travel, or some kind of dimensional warp capability which allowed them to visit us in the past.

Consider this: the Earth is 4.5 billion years old; the Universe is 13 billion years old. It took a third of the Universe's life for human life to evolve as far as it has. So what makes you think that in the other 9 billion years another species developed such highly advanced capabilities? And, if they did, and they did come here... why is the only evidence left, construction which humans were capable of at the time they supposedly arrived?

There are "aliens," but there are no "ancient aliens."

reply to post by ConspiracyBuff


Yes, such a shame. Well, welcome to the human race. Time to build your merit off of skill, perseverance, and determination; rather than paperwork and spiritual attribution. By the way... 33 degree is the pinnacle of Masonry... and most lodges have an open-door invitation process these days. Becoming a Mason is not so hard anymore.

reply to post by frozenspark


I am not familiar with Chris White, although a quick Google search of his name has informed me he has a radio show. I'll have to give him a listen sometime and see what kind of conclusions he draws, and opinions he states.

I am, ultimately, always leary of any individual who has any type of non-scientific or historical background. My grounding in Sumeriology comes from Sumeriologists, and Assyriologists, not from spiritualists and New Age beliefs.

Likewise, I have a dislike for Judeo-Christian beliefs (since they slaughtered the people whose beliefs I most closely align to). But I will give Chris a listen. Thank you for pointing him out to me.

reply to post by dontreally


You may enjoy the final segment of the 3-hour video. It is all about the Nephilim and the biased angles "Ancient Aliens" takes concerning them. I did find that the narrator got a bit too preachy and opinionated during the segment, but, I suppose I cannot blame him as I probably would lose my patience and develop a bias somewhere during the first 10 hours of debunking this awful, awful show.

Concerning "giants" in general; I am of the mind that they represent an archaic spiritual system lost to time. It was probably the belief structure of our ancestor's ancestors, which our ancestors overcame. Almost every mythic cycle has the giants: Ninurta of Mesopotamia fights the Asag rock-giant and the Anzu bird; Teshub from Anatolia fights Ullikummi the towering stone giant; Zeus of Greece fights the Titans, the Cyclopes, Typhon, and even the Giants and the Aloeids; there are the Fomorians in Celtic mythology which the Tuatha de Danaan overcome; and the Fire and Frost Jotnar of Norse mythology, alongside the Nephilim of Judeo-Christian belief.

As for the idea of reality vs fiction... some mythologies do seem to be based on actual encounters. Not with aliens mind you, but that perhaps the deities of old religious systems were just human beings who contributed a lot to their societies. Again though, I do not see this being present in every mythology. I do not see a real-life human encounter behind the brilliantly shining, multi-limbed Hindu deities, for example.

If you look at the Prose and Poetic Eddas from the Norse mythic cycles though, they believed their gods were actual human beings who just had skills above and beyond the average warrior. In fact, at the end of the "Gylfaginning" of the Prose Edda, King Gylfi of Sweden actually attributes the Norse gods to characters from Greece and Troy (Achilles and Ulysses among them). Even more interesting, the old group of deities: Odin, Tyr, Heimdallr, Thor, Freyr and their feminine counterparts (when applicable), all die during Ragnarok. To have a definite point in time where all of your old pantheon dies, and a new one (Modi, Magni, Vali, Vidar, Baldr, Lif, Lifthrasir, etc) take over... is very telling.

Likewise, there are myths in Mesopotamian literature where the gods do very simple, human things. Like the myth which features Inanna sleeping beneath a tree where she is raped by a farmer. Inanna then flies into a rage and punishes her people for hiding the offender. This is exactly what the chief or elected official of a small town or tribe would do had it happened to her. Or, there is another one where a scribe writes about the god Enki standing on a boat in a river. There's nothing else. It is just Enki floating down a river. They're not godly actions, quite the opposite, they're very human.



Thanks once more, everyone, for the second round of comments. Glad to see so many people responding to the thread and giving their input.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Great thread and this subject has been discussed many times here at ATS.

Chat rooms like this one are designed to discuss both sides of the story so to speak, however I have read a number of books on the subject including Sitchin. Wether the old man was right or wrong is up to the reader.

The only thing I have come to conclude is that God didn't make us and we definately didn't evolve from apes, so whats left.

Lets face it, we only know what we read, watch or dig up, and on the face of it, we are subject to somebodys theory, so that leaves it once again up to the reader.

The books I have read, and I have my tin hat on, are............

The Cosmic War by Dr Joseph P Farrell
Rule by Secrecy by Jim Marrs
Architects of the Underworld..............highly recommended
Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins by Dr. Arthur David Horn Phd
Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock

So my friends, it ain't gunna get solved here, but I'd like to think someone on this planet knows the whole truth.

reply to post by downunderET

Chat rooms like this one are designed to discuss both sides of the story so to speak, however I have read a number of books on the subject including Sitchin. Wether the old man was right or wrong is up to the reader.

Lets face it, we only know what we read, watch or dig up, and on the face of it, we are subject to somebodys theory, so that leaves it once again up to the reader.

I must disagree that it is "up to the reader," because a civilization is not subjective. Sitchin says that Enki was the Lord of Mining, and not the Lord of Wisdom, yet nearly every action Enki takes is out of curiosity, toward understanding, or as a sukkal to the Anunnaki. He is clearly a crafty trickster god of wisdom, cunning, and daring. Not a god of mining minerals from the Earth.

That is the interesting thing about translating the works of an ancient culture. We have their words, exactly as they wrote them. There's no two ways about that. Just as someone, 10,000 years from now, who uncovers a Cat in the Hat book and deciphers it could not arrive at anything other than the rhyme scheme and story of the Cat in the Hat. Sitchin did not correctly translate the Sumerian and Akkadian works he was referencing. And because of this, he purposely did not provide footnotes, excerpts, or any way for his readers to check his work.

Sitchin got it wrong. Kramer, Wolkstein, Woolley, Maier and others who worked their entire lives on the cuneiform inscriptions, without bias, are hundreds of times more trustworthy. Samuel Noah Kramer never tried to make a pseudo-philosophical end-times prophecy out of what he translated. He did it for the want to know what Sumerian life, literature, culture, religion, art, and trade was like. And that is what he presents in his numerous books.

The only thing I have come to conclude is that God didn't make us and we definately didn't evolve from apes, so whats left.

You're right, we were not created from clay, mud, spit, blood, or the bones of any god anywhere in humanity's extensive mythological history. However, evolutionary theory is sound. When coupled with phylogeny, and other fields which study the way our minds and bodies react and develop it is undeniable that we have evolved. Not from apes mind you, but from monkeys. Primates, like human beings, and apes, etc, all share their common ancestry with monkeys. Here's a quick video which explains the phylogeny of human ancestry.



There's also the Talk Origins website which is devoted to dispelling the illusions concerning evolutionary theory (which is closer to "fact" then the common definition of "theory"), and even Creationism. This does not mean that you cannot have a spiritual leaning in your psyche. Look at me; I'm aware of my ancestral lineage, and still have a spiritual belief. There's nothing which says human spirituality could not have developed alongside physical evolution.

It just puts our perspective in check. We are one insignificant speck in the totality of the Universe, yet we have the potential to rise and make our own importance felt. Which is a much better spiritual precedent then being the solely loved creation of a deity who made such a vast space for creations to emerge from. That view has an extremely egotistical bent to it, and makes us seem more important than we really are.

So my friends, it ain't gunna get solved here, but I'd like to think someone on this planet knows the whole truth.

Never assume that there is a totality to knowledge; that is the quickest way to self-disillusionment. When you stop challenging something, advancing it, and growing with it, then you stop being worthy of humanity. Of course we will not "solve" anything here. But what we can do, is dispel the illusions and misinformation, giving people seeking their personal truth a more structured and sound place from which to start their search.

I'll throw up my reading list in a post later on as I do not have enough characters left in this reply. I've taken down the works you suggest and will be renting them from my library in the coming weeks, thank you for the input.

~ Wandering Scribe

Ancient aliens was enjoyable and is no kore biased than other mainstream ancient civilization documentries. The truth IMHO is somewhere in the middle.

It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it.

The way I see it is that aliens are indeed here. There are far too many proffesional witness testimonies to ignore the facts. For example Japan Airways over Alaska and the Aircraft carrier sized UFO in front of the airplane for over 100 miles. Or the whole primary school of 65 school children who encountered aliens while on breaktime. All drew the same pictures and made the same statments. The children were told humans are "too technolodged" and soon we won't be able to "breath".

Aincient aliens, true or not, imho, is irrelevant.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Concerning "giants" in general; I am of the mind that they represent an archaic spiritual system lost to time. It was probably the belief structure of our ancestor's ancestors, which our ancestors overcame. Almost every mythic cycle has the giants: Ninurta of Mesopotamia fights the Asag rock-giant and the Anzu bird; Teshub from Anatolia fights Ullikummi the towering stone giant; Zeus of Greece fights the Titans, the Cyclopes, Typhon, and even the Giants and the Aloeids; there are the Fomorians in Celtic mythology which the Tuatha de Danaan overcome; and the Fire and Frost Jotnar of Norse mythology, alongside the Nephilim of Judeo-Christian belief.

In Leon Kass' "Reading Genesis", he flirts with the idea that large parts of Genesis (as well as numbers) express a repudiation of ancient Babylonian philosophy. Thus, the repetition of the idea of a flood, of giants, etc, motifs which appear in earlier babylonian literature, these metaphors are not meant to perpetuate the same ideas in the old philosophy (as many obtusely claim), but rather, to reject them. How did the biblical religion begin?? Abraham was told by God to leave the land of Chaldeans. He was departing from that particular philosophy, from a certain way of looking at the world. In Yoram Hazony's "Philosophy of Hebrew Scriptures", he delineates how this theme of departure appears in the Hebrew scriptures: Abraham leaving Babylonia, the Jews departing Egypt, reflect a rejection of the pagan civilizations of those days; civilizations that were largely based on mass scale farming and irrigation. Hence, the bible begins with the seminal idea of Cain (the farmer) and Abel (the shepherd).

I don't mean to deprecate your appreciation of ancient sumerian/babylonian philosophy, rather, I want to highlight that the Hebrew scriptures too are mostly entirely metaphorical, aside of course from those ideas which are patently literal (i.e dont murder etc)

It's interesting though how the nephilim are looked at in Hebrew thinking verses the more positive interpretation of 'giants' in pagan literature. Your idea of giants representing earlier belief systems which had to be overcome is plausible, however, from the viewpoint of the Hebrew religion, and particularly from the perspective of Hebrew grammar, I think it may be referring to something slightly different. As noted, the root of the word Nephilim is Nafal 'to fall'. Nephilim is thus related to the concept of 'falling'. The holy land is the concept of the good. It is that ideal which man tirelessly pursues. But within it's confines, or, on pursuing it, things necessarily appear that make an apprehension of the good difficult to see.

In the narrative I quoted above, the 10 spies could represent various attitudes people take towards the good. That perhaps the thinking of the Bible, is "too optimistic", to sanguine to be achieved. The giants are there! Giants "occupy the land" (consciousness?), and these giants may be the tendencies built into human behavior patterns over generations by earlier religious systems (which would connect with your idea of giants being earlier belief structures). Thus, 10 have doubt, and they prefer to 'live outside' the land. This could reflect some preference to asceticism. Whereas Joshua and Calev give a more optimistic view.

The difference between pagan and Jewish metaphysics is typified in the difference between Cain and Abel. Cain accepts the existing order and does not seek to improve upon it (hence Gods statement to Cain:And the LORD said unto Cain: 'Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up?), thus, he is a farmer. Abel conversely seeks to improve upon the existing order through self betterment, which, strictly speaking, refers to moral betterment. He is thus a shepherd (as is Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, etc)...

As for the idea of reality vs fiction... some mythologies do seem to be based on actual encounters. Not with aliens mind you, but that perhaps the deities of old religious systems were just human beings who contributed a lot to their societies.

Oh, of course. There's often multiple strata of meaning which are combined into one narrative. Often, some famous personage becomes the centerpiece of a new mythology, as in the Arthurian legends.