Rubio's statement throws cold water on Romney's tax reform plan

I can see Rubio pushing the ticket for the 2016 election. He is very sharp and observant.

"There will be a very helpful debate about whether things like the charitable deduction, the health insurance premium, the home interest deduction should be part of the deal," Rubio told a crowd of journalists at a Bloomberg View event. "I don't think that those, especially the home interest deduction, [reducing that] is troubling, because it really helps the middle class. Do you really want to hurt charitable giving in a country when you are saying that you want to rely less on government and more on private institutions to deal with these issues? And how are you going to raise taxes on people on their health care premiums when you are saying you want there to be a system in place where folks can have more control over their own money?"

His statement simply identifies the mythical promises of the Romney tax plan. As elaborate as it is, it's pie in the sky and is just out there to satisfy the curious.

Rubio's analysis of who benefits from these deductions is correct. It is primarily the lower and middle class. But politically, his statement throws cold water on Romney's tax reform plan. Without touching the charitable, home interest, or health care deductions, there isn't even close to enough revenue to pay for a 20-percent across the board rate cut of the kind that the Republican nominee has pledged -- even including those exemptions and deductions doesn't get you close.

Rubio on Romney's tax plan

Nice find! S&F

It will be interesting to see what the poll numbers look like in Florida next week. When Rubio Speaks, Floridians listen. This very well could be the nail in Romney's political coffin.

reply to post by LeatherNLace
My uncle, who lives in Florida, says he has met Rubio personally and word is he is just as dynamic in person as he is seen on tv. It's too bad he is not running in 2012.

The Actual Romney Tax Plan, 87 Pages Long:

Believe In America: Mitt Romney's Plan For Jobs And Economic Growth

Now, The Question Remains:

Where Is Obama's Tax Plan?

reply to post by alternateuniverse
I think I said it earlier in my thread that most people who have scrutinized the 87 exhausting pages, including Rubio himself, don't think all that gobbledygook is attainable. It's pie in the sky, for the most part, and just put out there to let folks think there actually is a doable plan.

Their tax plan is a joke...just like all of them. It's smoke and mirrors. They have absolutely no intention of reducing the incoming revenue or the amount of overspending they indulge in.

It doesn't matter if the cut "entitlement" programs...they are still going to hose out unimaginable dollars in defense...or corporate subsidies...or other tax breaks for those that don't need it.

The problem is, they have absolutely no intention of reducing the deficit or addressing the overall national debt. None of them. They are milking this cow till she collapses and they will take their money and run or use it to build a Plutocracy or Oligarchy right here. These people are not trying to help you. At least choose someone that wants to open the doors and pasture fence gates so you are able to help yourself.

But I am pretty sure the Romney and Obama fans will not hear a word I have said..."insert fingers in ears and shout la-la-la I can't hear you!"

Originally posted by LeatherNLace
Nice find! S&F

It will be interesting to see what the poll numbers look like in Florida next week. When Rubio Speaks, Floridians listen. This very well could be the nail in Romney's political coffin.

I'd say that is unlikely. Most Romney supporters just like Obama supporters don't know how to listen to logic. This crap will continue unabated.

May I note a couple of things?

First, this is Romney's plan. We're all old enough to know that the president puts forth a plan, then in gets worked over in Congress. No plan ever survives unaltered. Obama has submitted his budget plans, for example, and they don't even get one "yes" vote in the Democrat controlled Senate. Rubio's statement is that there will be a debate on individual provisions in the plan. That's not news, that happens every time.

Second, the study from The Tax Policy Center, a source for this OP, has been widely and seriously criticised for making implausible assumptions, among other things. Not surprisingly, Romney's detractors like the study. But it's accuracy is still suspect.

It seems that the article from The Huffington Post, used as a source, is more partisan and misleading than truly helpful.

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
The Actual Romney Tax Plan, 87 Pages Long:

Believe In America: Mitt Romney's Plan For Jobs And Economic Growth

You mean this plan?

Missing from Romney's tax plan: Reality

Ryan's six studies backing up Romney's tax plan turn out not to be six studies

Mitt Romney’s ‘new math’ for jobs plan doesn’t add up

Study: Romney tax plan would result in cuts for rich, higher burden for others

Report: Romney Economic Plan Hurts Red States, Helps Wealthy Urbanites, While Obama Boosts Rural Areas

Forbes magazine...Newsweek...Bloomberg Finance...The Tax Policy Center....The Romney plan is fairy dust for the middle class and HUGE windfalls for guys like himself.

Originally posted by charles1952
Obama has submitted his budget plans, for example, and they don't even get one "yes" vote in the Democrat controlled Senate.

Pres. Obama, like every President in history submitted a budget proposal..NOT plan. Never before in history has a President's proposal been stamped with a bill header and voted on...that was pure GOP theatrics. The proposal doesn't contain language to serve as a law.

You lost me right there...BS of great magnitude.

Originally posted by charles1952

Second, the study from The Tax Policy Center, a source for this OP, has been widely and seriously criticised for making implausible assumptions, among other things.

By right wing bloggers and idealogues. The only 2 economists that the Romney camp could find to support the plan had to first SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE Romney's plan to claim it would work.

Which means there is 100% consesus that Romney's plan as proposed does not work without hammering the middle class.

Considering the Tax Policy Center leans conservative, but still felt obligated to point out the utter BS in Romney's plan, speaks volumes to me.

reply to post by Indigo5

Dear Indigo5,

Please excuse my carelessness. I thought the words were similar, and gave them little thought. Still, that really wasn't the point. Whether it's a plan, proposal, suggestion, guideline, hope, first draft, or whatever, any thing that comes out of the President's office relating to taxes will be discussed, debated, considered, amended, altered, changed, and modified by Congress.

Whatever either candidate offers will not be identical to the idea originally suggested by the winner.

I see nothing unusual about Rubio suggesting the issues will be debated.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Indigo5
Agree with everything you are saying.

The pundits agree the Romney Tax Plan is "mathematically impossible" to implement and sustain over time. It would implode within itself and as such, should not be taken seriously.

Romney's tax plan "mathematically impossible".

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Whether it's a plan, proposal, suggestion, guideline, hope, first draft, or whatever, any thing that comes out of the President's office relating to taxes will be discussed, debated, considered, amended, altered, changed, and modified by Congress.

If Romney's campaign was selling...Vote for me, I am going to do some stuff!!...then that might be a fair defense.

But Romney has been specific about his plan...and he should be. The American people deserve to know what his plan is. For President Obama they can objectively examine the last 4 years and come to rational conclusions about whether his policies are working...they have a real world record to judge him by.

Now you would like the American public to potentially halt or interupt the economic recovery to give a GOP idealogue another try at Trickle Down economics?? And to do so on the basis of "We will work out a plan when we get there...just vote for us"???

Ponder this...The Bush era tax cuts were proposed as stimulas. Just cut taxes and we will see growth...where did that lead?? Increased deficet and near economic collapse. Now Romney wants to sell that same plan. Trickle down...with some promised crumbs to the peasants, despite every analyst with 6th grade understanding of math explaining that IT CAN NOT WORK...No matter what deductions he closes...There ARE NOT ENOUGH DEDUCTIONS IN THE TAX CODE TO PAY FOR HIS TAX BREAKS FOR MILLIONAIRES.

The one study that Romney always cites and says supports his plan???

Feldstein allows for tax increases on people making more than $100,000. But on Sept. 14, Romney told ABC's George Stephanopoulos that he would hold people making less than $200,000 or $250,000 harmless from tax increases.

www.bloomberg.com...

EVERY analyst has to crank on the lower tax brackets to make the plan work.

Otherwise those that try to support Romneys plan...first have to oppose his plan and change it to support it.

Just insanity...idealogical derangement...it is simple economics and math.

reply to post by Indigo5

Dear Indigo5,

We may be moving at cross-purposes here. It seems that you're saying that the study is correct, and anyone who disagrees with it is an ideologue who should be ignored. That's a pretty extreme position, and it does shut down discussion and learning.

So if you're taking that position, of course no "economist" would criticize the plan, anyone who did would be seen by you as a "right-wing ideologue."

Which means there is 100% consesus that Romney's plan as proposed does not work without hammering the middle class.

Of course this isn't true, it's not even logical, unless you're saying that 100% of the people who support the study, support the study.

Considering the Tax Policy Center leans conservative, but still felt obligated to point out the utter BS in Romney's plan, speaks volumes to me.

Oh my goodness, I don't know of anybody that thinks that way, it's part of Brookings, and the Urban Institute. At best, the Tax Policy Center is described as center-left.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
The Actual Romney Tax Plan, 87 Pages Long:

Believe In America: Mitt Romney's Plan For Jobs And Economic Growth

You mean this plan?

Missing from Romney's tax plan: Reality

Ryan's six studies backing up Romney's tax plan turn out not to be six studies

Mitt Romney’s ‘new math’ for jobs plan doesn’t add up

Study: Romney tax plan would result in cuts for rich, higher burden for others

Report: Romney Economic Plan Hurts Red States, Helps Wealthy Urbanites, While Obama Boosts Rural Areas

Forbes magazine...Newsweek...Bloomberg Finance...The Tax Policy Center....The Romney plan is fairy dust for the middle class and HUGE windfalls for guys like himself.

Why'd you have to come and throw in some reality?

No fair

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Dear Indigo5,

It seems that you're saying that the study is correct, and anyone who disagrees with it is an ideologue who should be ignored. That's a pretty extreme position, and it does shut down discussion and learning.

Not at all...I am saying that the Romney campaign falsely claimed that there were 6 studies that claimed his plan could work. In reality there were 4 blog "analyses" by "right wing" blogs and 2 studies by Romney campaign advisors.

Of those two "studies"...they both had change the fundementals of Romney's plan to get it to work...not "details", but fundementals...the one which decided that those making as little as 100k would get taxed higher...while Romney promises that everyone making under 250k won't see an increase...is just one example of many changes those two studies had to incorporate just to make the plan tread water and not continue to add to the deficet.

To get Romney's plan to succeed?? That is where fairy dust comes in! The very act of electing Mitt Romney will encourage people to consume more and spur economic growth in GDP at rates we haven't seen in decades!!

So ...4 blog posts and 2 studies by Romney advisors...NONE of which hold water without changing the fundementals of his plan and both which rely on consumer "excitement" to spur growth just cuz he is elected.

vs.

Forbes, Bloomberg, Businessweek, Tax Policy Center...and dozens and dozens of economists left and right around the country that say the plan will not work and actually stall the recovery and damage the middle class.

Yes...In matters of math there are actual answers...His plan can not work.

Not ignoring those that support the romney plan...just the opposite. Listening carefully...and the disregard for simple math and evidence is shocking.

Originally posted by charles1952
At best, the Tax Policy Center is described as center-left.

If by "center-left" you mean staffed by former GHW Bush and Reagan officials, then you have a point.

Even the author of the Tax Policy Center study that you dismiss as "center-left"??

William Gale: Senior Staff Economist for the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush.

Let's try another economist from a generation of conservatives who no longer are driven by GOP agenda...

Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations

[On Romney's Plan] the idea that tax reform will jump-start an economy suffering from the after-effects of a cyclical downturn is nonsense.

economix.blogs.nytimes.com...

reply to post by Jaellma





Republicans are interesting people. Ever more interesting as the Tea Party increases its stranglehold on the party.