Lazar Camp Vs. Friedman Camp

How much credit can we give Lockheed and Martin guy Boyd Bushman?

In my opinion, based off the little i know Boyd Bushman should now be the frontrunner for most credible witness.

I always thought that guys like Stanton Friedman was mis-information, cause I wanted to believe bob lazar. He was the exact kind of witness you would expect to come forward from a government contract. But after the problems verifying his education, I became doubtful as Im sure others did as well. But this Bushman guy, kind of puts a spin on things.

Is he participating in misinformation to discredit guys like Friedman who was publicly against Lazars claims, or has friedman been the misinformation? or is Friedman just a fruad?

Discuss

Trust Bob Lazar if you want to trust anyone at all. This guy actually makes sense.

Originally posted by TheProphetMark
Trust Bob Lazar if you want to trust anyone at all. This guy actually makes sense.

Thats kinda were I am at right now.

Originally posted by TheProphetMark
Trust Bob Lazar if you want to trust anyone at all. This guy actually makes sense.

I agree.

1. Lazars name was in their phone directory. He DID work there, and THEY DID try to say he didn't.
2. Whenever you see the dissinfo engine being started its for a reason.

ETA: Friedman. Not sure he's dissinfo, I've heard some good stuff spoken by him, but the art of dissinfo is to mix truth with lies.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by TheProphetMark
Trust Bob Lazar if you want to trust anyone at all. This guy actually makes sense.

I agree.

1. Lazars name was in their phone directory. He DID work there, and THEY DID try to say he didn't.
2. Whenever you see the dissinfo engine being started its for a reason.

ETA: Friedman. Not sure he's dissinfo, I've heard some good stuff spoken by him, but the art of dissinfo is to mix truth with lies.

edit on 28-9-2012 by VoidHawk because: (no reason given)

They say with the internet its impossible to hide anything anymore. All they can do is spin it, right?
(unless that guy above is right and they are time traveling rofl)

Lazar plus John Lear plus George Knapp for the win

Originally posted by ubeenhad

Originally posted by TheProphetMark
Trust Bob Lazar if you want to trust anyone at all. This guy actually makes sense.

Thats kinda were I am at right now.

Don't question or second guess yourself. You're on the right track

I'm of the personal opinion that regardless the established personality in the UFOLOGY circuit, personal diligence in referencing citations, tracking down source material, and verifying claims is more important than simply taking anyone's 'word' for anything, regardless their seeming credibility.

As it stands, we've too many stories related to the UFOLOGY subject and very little concrete evidence outside of and compared to speculation on the topic.

What hard verifiable facts do we have?

Regardless your favorite personality in the greater UFO forum, what hard evidence is there?

From that hard evidence, we need examine this phenomena and use caution in taking the word of anyone on the subject, as well as trying diligence in verifying all data presented as evidence against potentially faulty speculation.

reply to post by Druscilla


I'm not going to explain because I've already done so twice. So I'll point you in the right direction and you can read the threads that discusses it. Read through it until you come across the discussions about Bob Lazar on both threads and you will see the connections that makes Bob Lazar not seem to be the nut bag most people thought him out to be.

Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Page 4

Scientist Create New Element

Page 2

Enjoy.

reply to post by TheProphetMark


ya, i was aware of all that. I work in a related field, so Lazars claims have been pretty famous in my circle. There is a relativly well known Jewish physicist named Jacob Bekenstein, known most notably for his work on the problems with black hole thermodynamics, during the "black hole war" with stephen hawking and the holographic principle.

Before he used to be what is called a relativist. He supported the idea that gravity didnt propagate it, it was geometic bending of spacetime. While in that part of his life, he was actually a supporter of bob lazars ideas. He has gone a different direction as of late, and im sure alot of lazars ideas dont fit with his idea of physics anymore but still curious.

Don't think Dru took either side in that, could be wrong tho. The thing is IF we look at Hubble pictures we still have no "hard" evidence that what we are seeing exists, but because we can be pretty sure its for real,.. we believe it till some god shows us otherwise. Lazar could be a fraud but he did work there so, in the goverment coverup game, I believe him.

I am beginning to think enough time has gone by that the goverment has gotten a handle on things to the point where we wont see as much as we used to when it comes to new sightings and such. Who knows they may have some treaty with a few races and be at war with others. By now they can discuss ahead of time when a "visitor" is arriving so as not to be seen.

I have stated before and still think it has some possible truth that when Cheney said if the U.S. people knew what we have done they would chase us down and hang us, he meant that they have screwed up relations with some other worldly race to the point we are in deep doo doo, of course thats just speculation and I'm just trying to find theories that fit the so called evidence we have to date. It is a tough nut to crack this space opera we have.

Btw I think Friedman is a good man just trying to do the same with the facts at hand.

UFO on Google Street view!

I've checked it myself, and it's still there. For those who want to see, hurry before it gets taken down!

reply to post by ubeenhad


Lazar's claims pin to close to other claims made by other famous abductees. Benny and Barney Hill.

Being from Zeta Rec.

Must be true...

-SAP-

Originally posted by ubeenhad
How much credit can we give Lockheed and Martin guy Boyd Bushman?

In my opinion, based off the little i know Boyd Bushman should now be the frontrunner for most credible witness.

I always thought that guys like Stanton Friedman was mis-information, cause I wanted to believe bob lazar. He was the exact kind of witness you would expect to come forward from a government contract. But after the problems verifying his education, I became doubtful as Im sure others did as well. But this Bushman guy, kind of puts a spin on things.

Is he participating in misinformation to discredit guys like Friedman who was publicly against Lazars claims, or has friedman been the misinformation? or is Friedman just a fruad?

Discuss

edit on 28-9-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-9-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

Stanton Friedman is a leech. He sucks the money off the gullible like there's no tomorrow. He is like a UFOflea on a dog.

Bob Lazar is an enigma and you would really have to care about the guy to give him two minutes of your time. I never accepted anything he said about his work. What turned me off to him, though, was the TESTORS UFO kit - Area S4 UFO Revealed! - and on the kit's box it says: "A scale model kit of the alien craft allegedly hidden in Nevada by the U.S. Government. As described by witness and former government physicist, Bob Lazar"

What a lot of Lazar admirers may not realize is that the image of the UFO is an identical rip-off of the "Billy" Meier Pleiadian craft. So, is Meier a hoaxer or does Lazar authenticate Meier's craft? We'll never know unless one of you contacts Lazar for an answer.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by ubeenhad
How much credit can we give Lockheed and Martin guy Boyd Bushman?

In my opinion, based off the little i know Boyd Bushman should now be the frontrunner for most credible witness.

I always thought that guys like Stanton Friedman was mis-information, cause I wanted to believe bob lazar. He was the exact kind of witness you would expect to come forward from a government contract. But after the problems verifying his education, I became doubtful as Im sure others did as well. But this Bushman guy, kind of puts a spin on things.

Is he participating in misinformation to discredit guys like Friedman who was publicly against Lazars claims, or has friedman been the misinformation? or is Friedman just a fruad?

Discuss

edit on 28-9-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-9-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

Stanton Friedman is a leech. He sucks the money off the gullible like there's no tomorrow. He is like a UFOflea on a dog.

Bob Lazar is an enigma and you would really have to care about the guy to give him two minutes of your time. I never accepted anything he said about his work. What turned me off to him, though, was the TESTORS UFO kit - Area S4 UFO Revealed! - and on the kit's box it says: "A scale model kit of the alien craft allegedly hidden in Nevada by the U.S. Government. As described by witness and former government physicist, Bob Lazar"

What a lot of Lazar admirers may not realize is that the image of the UFO is an identical rip-off of the "Billy" Meier Pleiadian craft. So, is Meier a hoaxer or does Lazar authenticate Meier's craft? We'll never know unless one of you contacts Lazar for an answer.

Lots of info to check out.
I would like to commend you one being the second person person in this entire forum to come across as an objective thinker.

reply to post by ubeenhad
In spite of Stan Friedman's support of some of the MJ-12 documents I think he was right about Bob Lazar. I don't think Lazar knew squat about anything in Area 51 or high-end physics. I recall an interview with an actual scientist who'd spoken to Lazar and he found that he couldn't *talk shop* as Lazar didn't have the subject knowledge.

In which case, as if it mattered, people need to write him off as a hoaxer or maybe suspect him of being part of a larger disinfo operation by some Intel mini-group. I take the hoaxer angle as it deals with the most aspects.

Boyd Bushman isn't someone I've ever focused on - usually I have zero interest in ex-personnel making his sort of claims. In this video he's waving some (alleged) designs for a nuclear-powered saucer. 1960 is the date on the page. It doesn't mean that anyone built or flew functional saucers - these were often just *proof-of-concepts.*

For me it's interesting because, whilst some folk like to suggest UFO reporters as mentally-ill, delusional or plain stoopid, saucers were taken seriously enough for elite engineers to try and reproduce them.

Originally posted by TheProphetMark
Trust Bob Lazar if you want to trust anyone at all.

Actually he is the one person you should not trust - where and when did he get his degree from?

reply to post by hellobruce


Ya, but isn't that saying something about ufology in general.

After doing alot of reading and research into Doty. Moore, the Aviary and the whole early 80's ptb disinfo campaigns, there is a good chance that Lazar was just another dupe. Similar to what happened to Bennewitz. ...

I would absolutely disagree with the notion that Stanton Friedman is a fraud. In my opinion, he'll forever be one of the best ufologists of all time.

That said, I do not agree with his assessment about Bob Lazar. I don't know how thorough his investigation was, but I think he is mistaken. There are too many "coincidental" things about Bob's story, like how his name was still in the phone books, you could find him in the newspaper, and that he would show people flying saucers near Area 51. I think it was George Knapp who said even the hospital he was born at denied he was born there for a while until they contacted the doctor who delivered him.
It's basically exactly what you'd expect if someone was getting erased.

In addition, if Bob Lazar is lying, then he's the greatest liar in the history of liars. He sounds so credible, his details are always consistent, and he delivers his story in a completely sincere way. His credibility is further aided by his natural skepticism and his desire to not be part of the whole UFO community. I've listened to every interview I can find of Bob Lazar three or four times, and I overwhelmingly feel he is telling the truth.