The Spark that Re-Ignited a Smoldering Fire in Libya

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint

 

Did you watch the trailer?

It is far more than just saying Islam is violent...it says Muhammed was a pedophile and shows people with poorly smeared brown make up on their faces...just portraying Muhammed is a no-no in Islam...why can't we respect that?

Why, wasn't he a pedophile? Aisha was 9 years old while the 54 year old prophet consumed the marriage with her. Or maybe you don't have a clear concept of what pedophila is?

Pedophilia according to DSM-IV-TR

"According to the DSM-IV definition, pedophilia involves sexual activity by an adult with a prepubescent child. Some individuals prefer females, usually 8- to 10-year-olds.

So as a normal human being, you tell me how much room for respect is in this?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Okay, so you don't like appeasement.

Would you suggest, as an alternative...continuing the longest war in US history...or drone strikes?
Or something else?

reply to post by queenannie38


In order for civilization to advance and people need to have the freedom to freely express themselves and debate things. One of the prices for freedom and advancement is that you have to put up with hearing or seeing things that may upset you.

Yes there were some aspects to the movie that were cartoonish. Yes there were some aspects to the trailer that were inaccurate. There were some aspects to the movie that were accurate or at least arguably accurate. Muhammed did marry a little girl and consumated the marriage well before her 15th birthday. Muhammed and his followers did kill a lot of people.

You are asking me and everybody else on the planet to blindly accept Islam and all its interpretations and tenants. You are asking me and everybody else on the planet not to question or criticize Islam or its founders. The free world cannot have this. People in the free world should be able to question or discuss anything. If we cannot discuss or question something like Islam, you are paving the way for Islam to conquer everything.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by queenannie38

 

you are paving the way for Islam to conquer everything.

And that's what they wish for. Is the most expansionist religion ever existed in human history.

Originally posted by Telos
Why, wasn't he a pedophile? Aisha was 9 years old while the 54 year old prophet consumed the marriage with her. Or maybe you don't have a clear concept of what pedophila is?

Actually...I do.
Pedophilia as described in the DSM refers to a psychological disorder. To whit:

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty varies). The prepubescent child must be at least five years younger than the adolescent before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2][3][4][5]

The term has a range of definitions, as found in psychiatry, psychology, the vernacular, and law enforcement. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[6] According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), it is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty.[1]

Note...it says:

characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children

It is a sexual DYSfunction.

Today. In the West.

Back in Muhammed's day, in the Middle East, 9 years old was considered no longer 'jail-bait' as they say.
That was then, this is now.

Marrying a young girl and waiting until she was 9 years old...because if you read the actual literature about it, she was 7 when he married her but 9 when they consummated...and she was not afraid and does not seem to have felt 'violated'...that was the custom.

You can read up on it if you wonder why they had that custom. For the time and place, it was practical and it was accepted...who are we to judge things that went on then? Or to insult an entire religion because our modern values do not fully comprehend the values held centuries ago on the other side of the world?

Furthermore, pedophilia is 'a primary or exclusive sexual interest.'

Muhammed had many wives...some young...some old...some older than he was, including the first two.

It was not pedophilia and such a serious accusation is not one to be thrown about due to failure to educate one's self on history, culture, and religion of other places and times. It isn't one to be thrown about at all

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by queenannie38

 

In order for civilization to advance and people need to have the freedom to freely express themselves and debate things. One of the prices for freedom and advancement is that you have to put up with hearing or seeing things that may upset you.

Yes there were some aspects to the movie that were cartoonish. Yes there were some aspects to the trailer that were inaccurate. There were some aspects to the movie that were accurate or at least arguably accurate. Muhammed did marry a little girl and consumated the marriage well before her 15th birthday. Muhammed and his followers did kill a lot of people.

You are asking me and everybody else on the planet to blindly accept Islam and all its interpretations and tenants. You are asking me and everybody else on the planet not to question or criticize Islam or its founders. The free world cannot have this. People in the free world should be able to question or discuss anything. If we cannot discuss or question something like Islam, you are paving the way for Islam to conquer everything.

No, I am asking for you, not you in particular but everyone...to cease the hypocrisy.

You say first that "One of the prices for freedom and advancement is that you have to put up with hearing or seeing things that may upset you." then you say "You are asking me and everybody else on the planet to blindly accept Islam and all its interpretations and tenants."

No...I am asking you to educate yourself and to be open minded....I am asking you to not lump every Muslim in the radical pile.

Are all Christians...even right wing Christians...of the same mind-set as the KKK?
Should they all be treated as if they were white supremacists who admit to murdering black people because they believe it is GOD's will?

Originally posted by queenannie38

It was not pedophilia and such a serious accusation is not one to be thrown about due to failure to educate one's self on history, culture, and religion of other places and times. It isn't one to be thrown about at all

Are you even normal? He was a pedophile pig, a disgusting human being. Even by that time standards, 9 years old was considered a child. Here you have all your religious authorities and what they have to say about:

An Examination of Muhammad’s Marriage to a Prepubescent Girl And Its Moral Implications

p.s. You should be reported as a sex offender. Sick people

Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by queenannie38

 

you are paving the way for Islam to conquer everything.

And that's what they wish for. Is the most expansionist religion ever existed in human history.

Compared to what?
And do you mean fastest...or widest reaching...or what?
Christianity was pretty darn expansionist when it first started.

Care to do some research?
pewforum

Religions Statistics Growth

Zoroastrianism and Baha'i beat both Islam and Christianity for growth rate.

But that doesn't matter...it doesn't mean that it is wrong or that it should be the only religion regarded as evil or one that we must hate unilaterally.

Why hate anything?
Hate just breeds more hate.
It isn't justification for that horrible movie or the alleged reasons for which it was made.
It isn't justification of ourselves, by no means.

reply to post by Telos


Report me, then. Send me a U2U and I'll give you all the facts you need to give the authorities so that they can come arrest me as charged.

And...btw...at the About Us page on the site you linked to...it says:

This all said, we are Evangelical Christians and agree without reservations with the statement of faith as given, for example, by the World Evangelical Alliance and the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization.

And you stated also:

Here you have all your religious authorities and what they have to say about: (your link)

They aren't MY religious authorities. They may be yours but they are not mine.
This is part of the problem...these people are not assigned to be moral judges on people who lived in antiquity.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Other than 9/11 is a highly charged date for many people in the world.
Why was 9/11 chosen in the first place, back in 2001.

Good question. I'd like the answer for that one. I was supposed to be at a breakfast at the Top of the World at 9:00 AM on 9-18-2001.

Another reason(s) to Abolish organized religion. ITT.

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by queenannie38

 

you are paving the way for Islam to conquer everything.

And that's what they wish for. Is the most expansionist religion ever existed in human history.

Compared to what?
And do you mean fastest...or widest reaching...or what?
Christianity was pretty darn expansionist when it first started.

Care to do some research?
pewforum

Religions Statistics Growth

Zoroastrianism and Baha'i beat both Islam and Christianity for growth rate.

But that doesn't matter...it doesn't mean that it is wrong or that it should be the only religion regarded as evil or one that we must hate unilaterally.

Why hate anything?
Hate just breeds more hate.
It isn't justification for that horrible movie or the alleged reasons for which it was made.
It isn't justification of ourselves, by no means.

In terms of imposing dude. Read between lines. And what do I care about Christianity? Who said I'm a religious person or that I belong to any of the organized religion? Typical for you muslims, when the argument comes up you always tend to change the subject by comparing it with Christianity. We're talking about islam here and not other religions.

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by Telos

 

This all said, we are Evangelical Christians and agree without reservations with the statement of faith as given, for example, by the World Evangelical Alliance and the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization.

And you stated also:

Here you have all your religious authorities and what they have to say about: (your link)

They aren't MY religious authorities. They may be yours but they are not mine.
This is part of the problem...these people are not assigned to be moral judges on people who lived in antiquity.

edit on 9/12/2012 by queenannie38 because: (no reason given)

About Muhammed being a pedophile dude, not other religions. Anyway, nevermind. Is like talking to a wall.

reply to post by Telos


Why do you say 'you Muslims?'
I'm not Muslim any more than I am Christian.

As far as what 'imposing' means...it is, to some degree, a matter of interpretation...but I daresay that the indigenous peoples of N. America might beg to differ or at least offer a few words about the imposition of missionary Christianity.

Be that as it may, it was not me that inserted the so-called religious authority idea into this conversation...or the Christian angle, either. I did not intend for this thread to be about either one but more about the contents of the movie trailer, in general, that is implicated in what happened in Libya yesterday...and the creator of the movie and the details that have come to light about him.

Did you watch the trailer?
Not that you have to, it is your choice absolutely and not required for discussion in this thread. I am just wondering if you have seen what's in it and the kind of ideas it promotes and in what fashion they are promoted.

Originally posted by Telos

About Muhammed being a pedophile dude, not other religions.

Same answer...those people who are behind that website are not authorities about anyone being a pedophile, including Muhammed. They are evangelical Christians, by their own claim.

Why even bring that into the conversation, even in regard to his allegedly being a pedophile? Since that is a modern day mental health diagnosis/definition, it is outside the realm of evangelical christianity no matter how hard they try to push the limits of their influence upon the world.

One of the biggest issues here is that NO ONE wants to understand but EVERYONE wants to judge. Instead of trying to find a place where everyone can find peace without compromising their right to individuality, it just gets stepped up, notch by notch, by aggression instead of acceptance.

To accept another's beliefs as valid does not require one to adopt those beliefs but to simply not interfere in someone else's religious choices and ideally, their freedom. These are the principles of the country Americans claim as the land of the free and the home of the brave.

But it is fraying.

reply to post by queenannie38


You may be correct in that it was the "custom" at the time for old men to marry and have sex with young girls. Many people did messed up things centuries ago and I guess you can defend them as following the "custom" of the day. You can use this "defense" Plato having sex with boys or Thomas Jefferson owning slaves. We say just because Plato slept with little boys, it does not mean his books on philosophy are not worth studying. We say just because Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, it does not mean his views on government are not valid. However, we do never condone Plato for having sex with boys or Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves. T

However, to many Muslims, Muhammed is not just an historical figure. He is a prophet to be revered and a model for every Muslim to immitate. It is an act of blasphemy to criticize him or even consider at least some of his beliefs backward, outdated, or archaic. Much of what this film did is exactly that. It pointed out the flaws in Muhammed's character and people got killed because of it.

reply to post by queenannie38


Nobody is saying ALL Muslims are bad people or ALL Muslims are hypersensitive. Nobody is saying NO Christians or NO Westerners are crazy. What most of us are saying is that there seems to be a sizeable portion of the worldwide Muslim population that resorts to violence whenever Islam is criticized.

Two American embassies were attacked because a couple of Americans supposedly put together some low budget film about Islam. Government-run media outlets in the Mideast run anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, and anti-Western propaganda all the time. You don't see Jews rioting outside the Iranian embassy every time the Iranian president says he is going to wipe Israel off the map. You did not see Christians rioting outside the Pakistani embassy when a disabled Chrisitan girl was framed by an Islamic cleric on "blasphemy" charges.

reply to post by queenannie38

One of the biggest issues here is that NO ONE wants to understand but EVERYONE wants to judge. Instead of trying to find a place where everyone can find peace without compromising their right to individuality, it just gets stepped up, notch by notch, by aggression instead of acceptance.

When it comes to pedophiles or persons that believe that an adult male can have sex with a 9 year old girl and not be considered a pedophile,

I will judge!

Supporting pedophilia is sick.

All religions are fubard... Muslims are just the worse. Kill em all, let Muhammed sort them out.

this talk about a film inciting a riot and blah blah blah means nothing to me,
these people stated their opinion in a stupid movie about an even more
ridiculous religion and somehow when people start murdering over
it its the film makers fault. no offense but if thats their reaction to
criticism then they sure as heck cant be considered peaceful.

if anyone on the planet reacts to simple criticism with violence
then they have already lost any consideration i or many people
may have ever given them, i dont care what any of your insanely
violent religions say, i aim that at all religion because whether or
not you lift a hand in anger you are part of the organization that
supports those views.

the problem with a fanatical belief in god is just that, it makes
a fanatic, in any other aspect of life that behavior is dangerous,
this one is no different, fanatical MMO players will die of
malnutrition before they stop playing, the simply truth is religion
encourages people to be fanatics and also makes it easy for
them to sleep at night as murders since their god told em to,
at least the dude who dies as a fanatical MMO player only
punished himself, why punish others for your ignorance and
pride? ridiculous childish behavior, you insulted my magic man
now you must pay!

those who believe they are above criticism are the ones who need it most
id say.