is their any Magic

I have to disagree with Lady V here, that magic isn't good or bad, but merely the intentions of the caster... When utilizing magic that attempts to speak across planes of existance, you can easily contact evil entities when you aren't aiming to do so. Just one episode of this back when utilizing automatic writing, was enough to convince me of this. I had been using it for some weeks, and learning much about how things are... Then I noticed a shift in the communication, and it was a different entity then, masquerading as the initial one I was speaking with. it sought possession, something I thought was the stuff of horror movies and hokey at the time...but luckily I was strong enough to end the contact completely. I haven't attempted this again since then...though perhaps when I have the time I'll try it again, and just be on guard against it...

If by magic you mean ritual and whatnot done to acheive an effect, then, as many have pointed out, catholicism already invovles it, like, well, most religions. The RCC has lots of rituals and paraphenalia, both for the laity and preisthood. I don't think that there is anything it officially sanctions along the lines of what you are thinking of as 'magic' tho. In judaism, there is 'Kabbala', in Islam, there is 'Suffism' but there isn't anything quite like that for Catholicism.

LL
You are completely athiest because you don't believe in objectively experiencing magic.

How does one objectively experience entirely subjective magic? You had said before it was subjective.\

SS
Some would even argue that TECHNOLOGY is Magick!!!

That would seem to mean that the word means absolutely nothing, since it can be taken to mean almost anything.

I will state two things now

one if we want to argue about the bible lets do it on a different forum

two Can someone just tell me how I can learn majic. And its one of my personal beliefs that all power is not good/evil it is the commander of the power who is

Yes, magic does exist...

Originally posted by Gazrok
I have to disagree with Lady V here, that magic isn't good or bad, but merely the intentions of the caster... When utilizing magic that attempts to speak across planes of existance, you can easily contact evil entities when you aren't aiming to do so.

No...that's not magic. That's a negative entity.....the magic which was used had nothing to do with it, it is something that happened that wasn't meant to.........magic is an energy and it simply is, like gravity or oxygen, it just is.....

Originally posted by elemtalsage
Can someone just tell me how I can learn majic.

A search would best be started by spelling it correctly. Magic would be doing 'something' to get the results you want through non-natural means no? IE I want to win the lotto. Instead of writting by chance the winning numbers, I perform a ritual of some sort to influence the results to conform to my numbers.
Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? Preter-natural influence of events and such?

Since its not been shown to be possible, you probably aren't going to be able to learn it.

Prayer is magic. Using a scrying plate is magic. Some people do magic with good intentions, others with bad intentions. But it doesn't really matter because it doesn't seem to work. If you want to learn how to perform the rituals anyway, well, outside of standard religions, there's wiccanism and the like. You could get some of their texts.

Lady V
magic is an energy and it simply is, like gravity or oxygen, it just is.

But gravity and oxygen are demonstrable. Magic apparently is not no?

[edit on 15-10-2004 by Nygdan]

How does one objectively experience entirely subjective magic? You had said before it was subjective.

Heres a quick example: you have a thought and then you speak it. It just went from completely subjective to objective

I didn't say magic was entirely subjective. I said belief played a big rule in inducing it. Sure it's subjective too...what conscious experience doesn't have subjective elements? However, I would argue magic has objective properties as well, since that has been my experience time and agan. Im sure LadyV and Gazrok would agree. If you would like further explanation I should probably start replacing the word "magic" with other words.

Some would even argue that TECHNOLOGY is Magick!!!
That would seem to mean that the word means absolutely nothing, since it can be taken to mean almost anything.

Haha I fully support what you said. Find that funny? Here is why. "Magic" is a label and so is "science". They are not giving birth to the truth they are just describing it. So ultimately I dont believe in "magic" or "science". Everything just simply is. The purpose of science is to discover what is currently unknown to us and to refine what we have "discovered" or I should say realized. The magic that we are speaking of has the same goal. The only difference is the labels...whereas the similarity is the pursuit of truth. True we may be realizing different things.

Can someone just tell me how I can learn majic

There is many threads with different ideas and techniques you should check out (objective ones too). I have been involved with many myself. I think I sent you a U2U? I suggested you start a dream journal. Start meditating, lucid dreaming and OBE. I think that will give you great insight and will give you further direction.

*Edit: St Udio. I agree. Alister Crowley is labeled "satanist" which is hilarious. Those people have not read a single thing of his.


[edit on 053131p://15u17 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by elemtalsage


two Can someone just tell me how I can learn majic.

....you can learn it with difficulty, i'm sure

Beyond that; ......TWO LOOK-UPS ARE INVOLVED,,,

Google & / or Wikipedia the following:

HERMETICS

ALISTER CROWLEY

Maybe a birds eye view will reveal that neither is what you expected.
As the more popular practice in WICCA is widely favored

Originally posted by elemtalsage
two Can someone just tell me how I can learn majic. And its one of my personal beliefs that all power is not good/evil it is the commander of the power who is

You know, every time you invoke the word "majic", I feel like someone is calling for me.

So here I am, having jumped out of the shower, sitting here wrapped in a towel replying to a message I'm pretty sure wasn't intended for me.

Can't a guy get five minutes of privacy?

Edit and P.S.: Oh, by the way, I advise extreme caution if you are pursuing spiritual knowledge in a quest for power. Been there, done that, started a ridiculously long thread about it.

If you do choose power before knowledge, as I did, the truth is that you will still end up getting more knowledge than power in the end, plus a surcharge in pain for your trouble. Nobody works for free.

My advice is to seek to know more about yourself first, rather than seek control over the world around you (that path usually means seeking to control others, not just "the world").

If you do not know your true self, then you risk becoming a slave to those who do. That's why "Know Thyself" is such a vital piece of advice.

Ultimately, however, it's your call, and your adventure is entirely yours to experience. May you find fulfillment, wherever your path may take you.

[edit on 10/15/2004 by Majic]

I have to disagree with Lady V here, that magic isn't good or bad, but merely the intentions of the caster... When utilizing magic that attempts to speak across planes of existance, you can easily contact evil entities when you aren't aiming to do so

LadyV's point was magic is neutral. The good or bad intention of the person directs it accordingly. In your example Gazrok it was not the persons aim to contact an evil entity. Are you suggesting regardless of the persons good intentions this encounter makes it evil? Does that mean if I encounter a serial killer, without the intention of doing so, I become evil? Or that my intention was evil? I would think that in this situation I could resist this evil with good intention. Is that not so?

Note: I want to hear your insight. I like how you answer peoples posts.


[edit on 073131p://15u06 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Gazrok
As with any magic, the key is BELIEF....

Not necessarily. You can cast remotely influence someone who doesn't believe. Of course eventually they do believe when they see what has happened is clearly out of the ordinary. Also if it's something bad, it's more likely the target individual will take notice. More cynical is when the person in question falsely thinks they had protection on them where in fact there was none. I've seen this happen before too. On the other hand if it's something good, they tend to not really dwell on the cause but enjoy it for what it's worth & be grateful.

You do not need belief to do magick. TRUST ME!

Originally posted by Gazrok
In the Catholic church, a ritual is performed in which wafers and wine are transubstantiated into the body and blood of Christ. Is this not magic? Is this not a magical ritual? If you believe that this does indeed take place, then truly it is powerful magic, no?

Crap. Complete crap.

Is this not magic? No, this is not magic. Simply believing that something happens does not make it so. If this were true, then I would be mowing the lawn with my mind, and I'd change the color of the sky with the firm belief that it is not blue.

I knew I shouldn't have even opened this thread. Sorry.

Magic is only from the mind to be visualized. I guess by magic he means witch magic which I do and there is nothing wrong with it though I do not like ho some try to make others belive that we are evil. Newsflash we arent. We do not worship satan. Eww nor hang any type of animals from trees. We worship some gods and godesses. The pentagram which some people put with evil is not an evil star. it puts the five elements of Earth,wind,fire,air,and water surrounded by spirit which is under the name of the goddess. I hope this helps. need anymore info?

I would like to announce two things again.

One

I dont have anyintention of controling anyone its, just not moraly right for me. I want to learn magic to learn more about the world. I know a lot of the sceptic view already but I am now learning the other side. Also one of my goals in life is to experence as much as i can

two

The church is realy getting me mad, I finnaly paid attention in it and the prest said and i quote to the best of my ability "and moses struck his enemys down with a sword" it took all my self control not to yell gods a hypocrite. So now im thinking about other religions. Anyones that people like here so far my top 2 choices are Pagan and Buddhist.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by elemtalsage]

Both I think have very insightful elements to them...

I would suggest you don't just pick one. Don't claim a system in your name, just learn from all that has been.

[edit on 113030p://14u40 by Lucid Lunacy]

but that was great advice if I got it the way you wanted me to.

sorry for the one liner so heres something else


I no longer hate humanity, i still think that we all do very dumb things, but its just nature we cant all be perfect. though it is a shame that the negitive things stick out more then the good. The reason I think I disliked it for a while was I had just come out of the childhood innocence and relized the world was not as good a place as I thought it was