religion=mass delusion

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


I don't believe anyone here can actually force you to read threads that shove dogma down your throat...

There is a function that will block religious threads... Perhaps you might try using it?

Look for the little red ( - ) sign

reply to post by EnochWasRight

it is the fact that we are ALL sinners together.

With all due respect, did you ever wonder why you believe you are a sinner - Because a Book, of unknown origin, embellished by many generations of self serving men, tells you so?

Hi you may feel this thread to be trollish in nature but I assure you it is here with the purpose of opening your eyes.

Rather like the man in the middle of the highway swearing there is no truck coming from behind? My eyes are already open, waiting for more answers from those studying the nature of our Universe. Waiting for the discoveries to be made. Are your eyes open, OP? Are they?

You can not prove your religion to be fact

I know. And I don't pretend to.

You cannot prove that your religion is right and all others are wrong

I can certainly prove some of them are indeed wrong, Mormonism, for example.

there is no fact at all in your beliefs

Not all of them. Many of them, though.

You cannot prove that your religion was not indeed spawned by the antagonist in your story

Which antagonist?

You let your lives and thoughts revolve around things that should not be considered serious

Things like self-improvement, care for the poor, consideration, wisdom, humility, understanding, ethics, fair play, justice?

Originally posted by Sly1one
reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

 

Although I completely agree with you, what ISN'T a mass delusion these days? Im pretty sure were all delusional about our perspective views on what "reality is"....we don't have any foundation of truth for which to compare our "reality"....this is all we know so by "god" it better be REAL!! right?

politics = mass delusion
patriotism = mass delusion
MSM = mass delusion
government = mass delusion
society = mass delusion

its almost like we have to be delusional to some degree for this world to work as it does today...I know that a large portion of the world we live in today wouldn't be possible without delusional people (voters, tax payers, politicians, terrorists, military, boogey-men, Santa clause etc etc...)

I'm not defending religion here but its one of the more obvious delusional constructs within this "reality"...but comparatively...its no different than many of the other constructs of this "reality" we consider "legitimate"...

edit on 18-8-2012 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)

You say that it is no different by comparison. Is it possible that the one truth that is not a delusion is what God has said all along? Do a comparison with simple truth.

Give and receive only is what religion is founded on. This is altruism and what religion is by definition.

Take and you are a thief. This is what humanism and objectivism are founded on.

In the Garden, God's promise to mankind was that he would die if he took from the fruit of knowledge. When a person takes, a debt is created. Smoke and you get cancer. When this is flipped, we see that suffering work creates reward. If a person jogs, bikes or swims, their health is added to. Why is this? Read the two forms of will above. Giving is suffering the release of what you give and previously earned. This creates a true reward and adds positive to the person you give to. Work at a job and reward extends to your family. Suffering is required to work for the thing you give. Taking will always cause a debt twice. One debt is for the person that was taken from. The other debt is the one the thief suffers in the end. Our nation and world are in debt because of taking what was not earned. Will we destroy ourselves in the process? What do you think the odds are? What if all people followed true religion and started working for what they give and disallow taking? What if actual justice was done by law for those who take?

Take a look at the delusion list you created and I hope you see the reason for the debt we suffer with knowledge in this world. That one solution has been there all along. God has his arms opened when we finally reach the end of our rope from the choices we have made. This happens individually, nationally and finally globally. Choices matter and true knowledge produces fruit that everyone enjoys and receives with thanksgiving.

James 1

27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

We are all sinners. We should all strive for the verse above. Would you agree?

reply to post by Akragon


As I stated before this is about life outside the internet as well. have you been outside or to other sites at all? Because not everything in the world revolves solely around ats... Though I do have to suffer through posts trying to promote belief in many threads having nothing to do with religion.

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

Because not everything in the world revolves solely around ats...

LIES!!

lol... I deal with "religionists" outside of ATS all the time my friend... It was just a suggestion.

Originally posted by XeroOne

Hi you may feel this thread to be trollish in nature but I assure you it is here with the purpose of opening your eyes.

Rather like the man in the middle of the highway swearing there is no truck coming from behind? My eyes are already open, waiting for more answers from those studying the nature of our Universe. Waiting for the discoveries to be made. Are your eyes open, OP? Are they?

You can not prove your religion to be fact

I know. And I don't pretend to.

You cannot prove that your religion is right and all others are wrong

I can certainly prove some of them are indeed wrong, Mormonism, for example.

there is no fact at all in your beliefs

Not all of them. Many of them, though.

You cannot prove that your religion was not indeed spawned by the antagonist in your story

Which antagonist?

You let your lives and thoughts revolve around things that should not be considered serious

Things like self-improvement, care for the poor, consideration, wisdom, humility, understanding, ethics, fair play, justice?

You revolve said statements around you... I was in no way speaking to you or about you. Dont act as though you do not encounter those that do fit into that which is posted

reply to post by Akragon


lol thanks for the suggestion anyway if only real life had an app for that

Isn't the title of this thread somewhat presumptuous, if not insultingly so for those who are faith based, although I guess it depends on what you mean by "religious".. a word which actually means or ought to mean "to rejoin".

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
reply to post by Akragon

 

lol thanks for the suggestion anyway if only real life had an app for that

heh... it does

Learn the words of Jesus better then they know them...

Works every time

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Sly1one
reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

 

Although I completely agree with you, what ISN'T a mass delusion these days? Im pretty sure were all delusional about our perspective views on what "reality is"....we don't have any foundation of truth for which to compare our "reality"....this is all we know so by "god" it better be REAL!! right?

politics = mass delusion
patriotism = mass delusion
MSM = mass delusion
government = mass delusion
society = mass delusion

its almost like we have to be delusional to some degree for this world to work as it does today...I know that a large portion of the world we live in today wouldn't be possible without delusional people (voters, tax payers, politicians, terrorists, military, boogey-men, Santa clause etc etc...)

I'm not defending religion here but its one of the more obvious delusional constructs within this "reality"...but comparatively...its no different than many of the other constructs of this "reality" we consider "legitimate"...

edit on 18-8-2012 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)

You say that it is no different by comparison. Is it possible that the one truth that is not a delusion is what God has said all along? Do a comparison with simple truth.

Give and receive only is what religion is founded on. This is altruism and what religion is by definition.

Take and you are a thief. This is what humanism and objectivism are founded on.

In the Garden, God's promise to mankind was that he would die if he took from the fruit of knowledge. When a person takes, a debt is created. Smoke and you get cancer. When this is flipped, we see that suffering work creates reward. If a person jogs, bikes or swims, their health is added to. Why is this? Read the two forms of will above. Giving is suffering the release of what you give and previously earned. This creates a true reward and adds positive to the person you give to. Work at a job and reward extends to your family. Suffering is required to work for the thing you give. Taking will always cause a debt twice. One debt is for the person that was taken from. The other debt is the one the thief suffers in the end. Our nation and world are in debt because of taking what was not earned. Will we destroy ourselves in the process? What do you think the odds are? What if all people followed true religion and started working for what they give and disallow taking? What if actual justice was done by law for those who take?

Take a look at the delusion list you created and I hope you see the reason for the debt we suffer with knowledge in this world. That one solution has been there all along. God has his arms opened when we finally reach the end of our rope from the choices we have made. This happens individually, nationally and finally globally. Choices matter and true knowledge produces fruit that everyone enjoys and receives with thanksgiving.

James 1

27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

We are all sinners. We should all strive for the verse above. Would you agree?

edit on 18-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

You cannot honestly sit there and use the word "religion" as if its a cohesive concept...its not, multiples religions multiples views, perspectives, teaching etc...or does your "religion" have a monopoly on the word "religion" and the others are simply "imposters"??

you can cherry pick from the multiple religions the stuff you personally agree with and don't agree with and say this teaching is true and this one is false...but that is all part of YOUR delusion which is validated only by your desire to construct a "reality" that you agree with...

reply to post by NewAgeMan


This is not directed toward those that do not behave in said manner... This is directed at all people of any faith that behave as stated previously

reply to post by Akragon


eh I've had my fill of the words of jesus and they arent any different than that Ive had my fill of in any other religion Ive studied. I believe in being spiritual and many different spiritual teaching revolve around the same things. becomes rather redundant

Originally posted by Maluhia
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

it is the fact that we are ALL sinners together.

With all due respect, did you ever wonder why you believe you are a sinner - Because a Book, of unknown origin, embellished by many generations of self serving men, tells you so?

If I throw trash in your yard, I have caused a negative. This is sin. I took something of yours as my own. Your yard is not a place for my trash. You have a choice. You could come beat me for this. Now how many negatives do we have? Two. You could, instead, pick the trash up from your yard and cancel my negative. Now we are back to equilibrium. Which is superior? The one that added positive.

What if you then came to my home and cleaned my yard? Now there is a surplus of positive and we have become friends. Now I am unlikely to ever take from you again.

One piece of trash is easy to erase and forgive. Wars are caused by as little as this. Your children can die in war and by the hands of men who think sin is not the problem. A book told me this and much more. It has the answer for ending war, poverty and for showing you how you are about to lose all that you treasure in a free society because humanity has undervalued virtue and truth. Tyranny comes when the thieves rule.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you are right. What if the Bible is only a continued story of mankind over the centuries of history, showing the various methods and mechanisms of observed good and evils and their accompanying results. Are you willing to deny what we have learned from our own history? Only a fool would deny truth, no matter how we arrived at the obvious.

God was there first from Genesis 1:1. What did he say in Genesis 1:1-3?

Genesis 1:1, 3

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Are you willing to bet an eternity that He has ever been wrong? Einstein was not on the same page with God until our day and age. When did God tell us what we took thousands of years to see? Who was there first?

Genesis 1:27

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Are you aware that science is now realizing that we are an image of energy and light? Ask yourself if this is even possible? What are you reading right now? You are reading words in the form of energy, collapsed from memory and reflecting the creators thoughts in word. You are reading them later than when I wrote them and they are using a mechanism of collapsing wave function to transmit from my distal phalanges to your screen. I am in your home right now, yet I am here as you read. Surly you don't believe me. I'm a Christian. We must all be liars.

What did God say that all of reality is constructed from? Other than Time, Space, Matter and Energy, did he give us a clue?

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

God just got lucky on this one, right? Surly science doesn't comply with this truth. Is a computer the very thing man creates as a microcosm to the macrocosm? Yes. We are HIS image.

You revolve said statements around you... I was in no way speaking to you or about you. Dont act as though you do not encounter those that do fit into that which is posted

So who is the original post directed at? It seems a sweeping statement against all religions and their followers, where we do indeed find a lot of truth and sincerity. Sometimes you find good works motivated by those beliefs.

Although I'm quite unreligious myself, I've been around that special type of holy/spiritual person who has a noticeable 'atmosphere' or aura around them. The kind of atmosphere that brings comfort to a sick person without the need for words. That's something I've never been able to explain.

Originally posted by XeroOne

You revolve said statements around you... I was in no way speaking to you or about you. Dont act as though you do not encounter those that do fit into that which is posted

So who is the original post directed at? It seems a sweeping statement against all religions and their followers, where we do indeed find a lot of truth and sincerity. Sometimes you find good works motivated by those beliefs.

It is about those that fit the criteria. There are those in many religions that fit this criteria but as I have stated before in other posts I have religious friends that I enjoy because they do not behave in a way that would fit this criteria. Most people believe in something but most do not act like like delusional crazy people preaching at you whenever the opportunity presents itself and even when the opportunity does not present itself

the only sweeping statement I made was that religion is a delusion

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Cleaning your yard right now my dear - equilibrium is where it should be! - It's all good - don't get lost in the words of the big book - doing what's right is all that really matters.

I have total respect for your opinions/beliefs even though they differ from mine.

reply to post by Sly1one

You cannot honestly sit there and use the word "religion" as if its a cohesive concept...its not, multiples religions multiples views, perspectives, teaching etc...or does your "religion" have a monopoly on the word "religion" and the others are simply "imposters"??

you can cherry pick from the multiple religions the stuff you personally agree with and don't agree with and say this teaching is true and this one is false...but that is all part of YOUR delusion which is validated only by your desire to construct a "reality" that you agree with...

You are speaking a pretext to me that was not part of my context. I never said anything about other religions. Personally, I could not understand what religion is if I had not fully investigated all other aspects of the same. Comparative study among belief systems is a gathering of perspective that has been my goal in life. I'm at it now for 30+ years. In the last 6 years or so, I have studied the Mystery Religions and Mysticism for a frame of reference. In the end, they are all revolving around a central point of origin and all belief systems, including science are aiming right back at the source. All things flow from a source. Rivers flow away from the larger body and then return again. Rain is multiplicity from the first unity. All things in nature point back to the story they tell.

I don't need a book to see this. Religion only provides the view of multiplicity returning to unity. Nature holds the archetypes and symbols that speak the Word of God. The Bible is merely a reference book for that story. All others are the same. Rumi the Islamic Sufi is one of my favorites, yet he simply tells the same story as the rest. The Bible happens to tell it more clearly than the others.

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


Reality itself can be a delusion. You could be socially engineered and fed some narrative without being aware of it, made to play a role, your decisions shaped by a few strategically placed actors while having the illusion of free will. 80% of the users on this forum might even be sock puppets.

Religion is only the blindingly obvious form of this.

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


That's a slippery slope. We go through life with many delusions - many shared nearly universally. To lock our doors at night and fall asleep feeling safe is delusional. The average home can be entered without much effort at all. But we all kind of agree to avoid making eye contact with this reality as a form of mass delusion.

Assuming we have any future beyond *now* is delusional really. I have no guarantee that I won't die in ten seconds. Should that realization prevent me from making plans for the future?

I've encountered a couple of uppity religious folk in real life that were annoying but not insufferable. I've also known a few hard-core atheists who were just as annoying and preachy about their beliefs - and just as insistent upon wanting others to convert.

If having faith in something helps a person make it through the day... then what's the harm? I'm not talking about religion - bad things have been happening in the name of religion for all of human history. Faith is different. Faith is simply the choice to believe or not to believe - in essence. I know a lot of people, including me - who believe but who don't feel a strong need to discuss it openly.

Being angry with religion I can understand. But how can anybody be angered over something as simple as whether or not another person chooses to believe?

My .02 cents.

~Heff