If you don't "believe" in Chemtrails, don't watch this video.

The Chemtrail debate rages on - at least here at ATS.

Here is the link to the "story" which is really just a video.

www.disinfo.com



Now I am still watching this video as I get ready for work this morning, but in the last debate I took part in on this site one of the questions that was asked with arrogance was "Well, if this stuff is so bad for us, why are we not dead or showing signs from it. I feel fine." This is typical of the "I/Me" attitude we are conditioned to have through all media in this country, and no one seems to have an answer. This nice lady seems to have that answer.

I noticed early on in the video that these Chemtrails seem to be working hand in glove with Monsanto and it's GMO agenda.

Will the OSers show up despite the title of this thread? Of course they will, even though there really is no Official Story handed to us. Such is the programming of OSers.

It has been said that scientific knowledge runs about 30 to 50 years ahead of what is revealed and released to us, an idea that alone makes the head swim. Which means that few of us without specific training are not knowledgeable to say with any authority "This is not possible".

Even so, those who do have specialized training, have enough knowledge in their field may understand one fraction of what is being discussed. However, most experts have been so compartmentalized in their training that it brings to mind the compartmentalization the Manhattan Project was famed for, thereby making debate here rather a silly idea - by design.

At any rate, enjoy the video - it is a lot to digest - and your Saturday morning. I am not posting and running but will have to wait to make any responses after work this evening.

Itta

Did a quick search and did not find this posted yet, however it was a quick search as I am getting ready for work. Mmm more coffee!

I've not really been involved in the chemtrail debate, as my interests lie elsewhere. I have scanned over a few threads and honestly couldn't pick a side. However 2 days ago I noticed something unusual.

First of all where I live in Cape Cod is pretty much under transatlantic and other major flight routes, so we see a lot of vapour trails from large jets. They are nearly always in the same SW to NE path. 2 days ago though they were more proliferate than usual, like 300% more,They were also in a criscross lattice formation and lingered all day, dispersing slowly into thin strata that eventually merged together.

This caught my attention and I began observing the jets as they flew over spewing their trails. Some had regular trails that seemed to disperse within 10 mins or so disappearing from the tail of the trail forward. The others dispersed far more slowly and laterally, with no discernable "tail forward" diminshment.

As I was watching one jet, it's trail suddenly stopped dead for about 5 - 8 seconds before bursting back to life. I that was a regular contrail, would that be a normal event.Would it not signify that the engines had been turned off briefly.From my relatively uninformed perspective it honestly looked like this jet was spraying something from tanks and one of the tanks ran out leaving a few seconds hangtime while the next tank was being opened.

I'm still none the wiser and am open minded to explanations from both sides of the debate

reply to post by blah yada

This caught my attention and I began observing the jets as they flew over spewing their trails. Some had regular trails that seemed to disperse within 10 mins or so disappearing from the tail of the trail forward. The others dispersed far more slowly and laterally, with no discernable "tail forward" diminshment.

Look like this...



If so all you witnessed was a normal contrail,sorry...

Btw Morgellons has been shown it doesn't have any link enviromentally...

This comprehensive study of an unexplained apparent dermopathy demonstrated no infectious cause and no evidence of an environmental link. There was no indication that it would be helpful to perform additional testing for infectious diseases as a potential cause. Future efforts should focus on helping patients reduce their symptoms through careful attention to treatment of co-existing medical, including psychiatric conditions, that might be contributing to their symptoms.

www.cdc.gov...

Sorry....

reply to post by blah yada

As I was watching one jet, it's trail suddenly stopped dead for about 5 - 8 seconds before bursting back to life. I that was a regular contrail, would that be a normal event.Would it not signify that the engines had been turned off briefly.From my relatively uninformed perspective it honestly looked like this jet was spraying something from tanks and one of the tanks ran out leaving a few seconds hangtime while the next tank was being opened.

Sorry there is no tank,but what you probably saw was a plane flying thru an area that was not condusive to contrail formation.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


There were what I would call regular contrails which dissappeared within 10 mins as well as these others which took the whole day to disperse. Also many of them were on unusual flight paths for this area.Thes trails dispersed in a completely different manner.

I dont know diddley about Morgellons. All I'm doing is reporting an observation.

reply to post by blah yada


Whether a trail disperses immediately or not is not dependant of the "type" of trail it is. In truth there is only one sort of contrail. However atmospheric conditions determine whether or not the trail persists, or even if one forms at all. This was also why you saw the short break, as the jet momentarily passed through a patch to band of air where the water vapour did not freeze, or at least sublimated as soon as it formed. This is quite common and why you often see gaps between clouds.

reply to post by waynos


thanks

Originally posted by waynos In truth there is only one sort of contrail.

There's only one type of exhaust contrail (triggered by water in the exhaust gasses), but there's also aerodynamic contrails (triggered by pressure changes in air flowing around the plane).

The trails people see are generally exhaust contrails.

reply to post by Uncinus


Yes, thanks for the clarification, I should have made that point clearer.

Weren't chemtrails mentioned in a bill of some sort?

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

Btw Morgellons has been shown it doesn't have any link enviromentally...

Ah the attack of the OSers. Much as I expected. No discussion of the points of the video, no response to the OP, probably didn't even watch the video. I know, I should have picked a shorter video that didn't require an attention span.

I call BS. After all you are linking to the Center For Disease Creation, a dubious source at best. And after the H1N1 farce the only people who have any faith in them reside right here in the good ole USA. Europe certainly doesn't give them credibility anymore.

I stand by the video. I for one am old enough to remember when there were no chemtrails, only contrails. And I just can't get on board with revisionist memory.

...sorry

Originally posted by Ittabena
I stand by the video. I for one am old enough to remember when there were no chemtrails, only contrails. And I just can't get on board with revisionist memory.

So what about all the people who DO remember "chemtrails" (persistent contrails)?

reply to post by Uncinus

So what about all the people who DO remember "chemtrails" (persistent contrails)?

People who remember things that did not occur? Not sure. Guess they were on a different planet. Perhaps a personal issue. Perhaps Psychiatric help is needed, though I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Maybe they were remote viewing with Ingo Swann. Or maybe my whole family is wrong and perhaps my 90 year old mother is lying for the first time in her life. If that is the best you got it is thin, very thin.

What about the video? I like how you guys always cherry pick the parts you wish to address and ignore the main points of a thread - you know those originally addressed in the OP. Always reminds me of Fahrenhype 911.

...sorry again (The same folks love to end this way, as if since they dismiss it out of hand the discussion is over. I for one have just not been that impressed by your intellectual acumen so far.)

Last time I was in this little micro-argument it was said that the advances in jet engines were the cause. As someone who worked on an international airport for years, that bucket didn't hold any water either.

reply to post by blah yada

As I was watching one jet, it's trail suddenly stopped dead for about 5 - 8 seconds before bursting back to life. I that was a regular contrail, would that be a normal event.Would it not signify that the engines had been turned off briefly.

I think you are on the right track here. Jet airliners after they take off are almost exclusively flown by autopilot, at least until the descent stage. Anyone who is familiar with even simulators knows this. The break could have been caused by a manual adjustment to the autopilot setting or an automatic adjustment made by the autopilot itself which caused a temporary reduction to the throttle.

You see I agree that there is no way you could keep all these pilots aware of what they were doing and quiet at the same time. My theory is that the chemicals are added to the fuel. This could be done easily and quietly with a minimum of folks aware of it. To me it is the only method that would make sense. Occam's Razor.

Why did we stop talking about the CDC? Feels like the fast shuffle to me.

reply to post by Uncinus

The trails people see are generally exhaust contrails.

At least we are in agreement on one point.

Originally posted by Ittabena
reply to post by blah yada

 

As I was watching one jet, it's trail suddenly stopped dead for about 5 - 8 seconds before bursting back to life. I that was a regular contrail, would that be a normal event.Would it not signify that the engines had been turned off briefly.

I think you are on the right track here. Jet airliners after they take off are almost exclusively flown by autopilot, at least until the descent stage. Anyone who is familiar with even simulators knows this. The break could have been caused by a manual adjustment to the autopilot setting or an automatic adjustment made by the autopilot itself which caused a temporary reduction to the throttle.

The breaks are caused by variations in atmospheric conditions. Contrails are just clouds made visible by the passing of the jet. A gap in a contrail is the same as a gap in the clouds. Gaps in couds can be very big, or very small. Sometimes, like clouds, the gaps can be periodic.

Originally posted by Ittabena
reply to post by Uncinus



People who remember things that did not occur? Not sure. Guess they were on a different planet.

and the other people who photographed "things that did not occur" over half a century?

Last time I was in this little micro-argument it was said that the advances in jet engines were the cause. As someone who worked on an international airport for years, that bucket didn't hold any water either.

There are lots of jobs at an airport, my ex wife manages the Spar shop at Donny, but she knows bugger all about jet engines. I on the other and have never worked at an airport, but I understand why the high bypass ratio engines of modern transports produce trails more easily. Maybe having worked at an airport isn't actually a qualification?

reply to post by Uncinus

The breaks are caused by variations in atmospheric conditions. Contrails are just clouds made visible by the passing of the jet. A gap in a contrail is the same as a gap in the clouds. Gaps in couds can be very big, or very small. Sometimes, like clouds, the gaps can be periodic.

Yeah, I heard ya the first time.

And again I ask, why did we stop talking about the CDC?

So far all I have heard you say is"Nah!" and "Nuh uh". Quite convincing arguments when discussing an hour long video. And you still haven't clarified whether you even watched the video. This is like discussing something with an adolescent. Sorry better things to do than to feed the trolls. And anyway, the title made it clear that this thread was not posted for you...

reply to post by waynos

Maybe having worked at an airport isn't actually a qualification?

Maybe it isn't, but then again maybe it is. Maybe regurgitating the OS, ad nauseum is not convincing either.

To quote the comic Imo Phillips; "Ambiguity, the devils volley ball!" This is fun. A complete waste of time and bandwidth, but I haven't had this many straight lines to pick from for a very long time.

Go ahead get the last word in, and I will let you have it. That should make you feel better. Adios Muchacho.

Originally posted by Ittabena
reply to post by Uncinus

 

The breaks are caused by variations in atmospheric conditions. Contrails are just clouds made visible by the passing of the jet. A gap in a contrail is the same as a gap in the clouds. Gaps in couds can be very big, or very small. Sometimes, like clouds, the gaps can be periodic.

Yeah, I heard ya the first time.

And again I ask, why did we stop talking about the CDC?

So far all I have heard you say is"Nah!" and "Nuh uh". Quite convincing arguments when discussing an hour long video. And you still haven't clarified whether you even watched the video.

Sophia Smallstorm runs 911weknow.com, she has this page on "Basic Facts"

www.911weknow.com...

CONTRAILS typically form behind high-flying jets in a low-humidity environment. Cold, dry conditions -- exactly those found in the upper atmosphere -- are prerequisites to contrail formation. The humidity level of the upper atmosphere is LOW, which is the reason clouds form in the troposphere -- the lower portion of our atmosphere. Jet contrails, which occur at high altitudes (e.g., 40,000 feet) disappear quickly -- much like your breath on a cold winter day. They are simply made of water vapor. (Why do contrails disappear? They evaporate in the dryness, helped along by solar radiation.)

Now, boys and girls, CLOUDS need two elements in order to form -- particles and moisture. They require condensation nuclei (small particulates) for water vapor to adhere to. The size of these nuclei is about seven microns (picture a red blood cell). Clouds also need conditions of about 70% humidity before they amass at various levels of our troposphere. Clouds hang around for a long time, and come in basic varieties: cirrus (high altitude, feathery looking), cumulus (puffy and fat, with noticeable vertical dimension), and stratus (low-hanging ... those sheets of gray that create an overcast day).

The lesson: Clouds and contrails require opposite conditions to form! Don't forget this.

Today's news: We don't get to see a lot of natural clouds any more! ... So, what DO we see up there in the sky?

All over the world today, we are seeing "clouds" formed by "contrails" left by high-flying jet planes. For some reason, as of 1998 or so, the white lines behind jets stopped going away. (This would be like your breath staying in the air for hours on a winter day, forming big swaths of whiteness all around you as you walked.) For some reason, after 1998, there were SO MANY jets leaving white trails in the sky that lasted all day, making THE WHOLE SKY OVERCAST, that NASA decided we now had a phenomenon called "persistent jet contrails." But they cannot explain why they are persistent

Now these "basic facts" are irrefutable wrong. Jet contrails don't always form above 40,000 feet (generally it's from 25,000 to 45,000 feet, but can be down to ground level). Clouds and contrails require the same basic conditions to form. 100% humidity to form, 70% humidity to persist (for ice clouds). Water in the jet exhaust temporarily boosts the humidity, allowing clouds to form. Ambient humidity allows them to persist.

NASA can explain in great detail exactly why there are persistent jet contrails, and why there have been persistent jet contrails since jets first flew in cold humid air.

So her basic facts are wrong. Since this is the basis for her argument, then her argument (the same thing she presents in the video) is wrong.