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Originally posted by michaelbrux
Money is a version of my time.
the real question is what is Time.
but no one will ask this question or answer it; Not even the people at CERN.
they'll come up with a different question and answer and live happily ever after.
Changing the world, one hour at a time
The Chicago Time Exchange is a diverse group of people (both Spanish and English speaking) working together to build community, help each other out, and change the world, one hour at a time.
Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by frazzle
its the case in all places.
Money is a version of Time...I'd imagine it to be a second derivative.
Gold is the first derivative of Time.
did you take deferential/integral calculus?
perhaps a partial deferential...either way...money is definitely a type of time.
the men that defined money as time are Nobel Prize Winners...Fischer Black, Myron Scholes...Merton. University of Chicago...and the global derivatives market all agree...money is Time.
edit on 7-7-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)edit on 7-7-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)edit on 7-7-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by frazzle
but now your question is answered.
Money is Time.
and in either case...people lacking them will do just about anything for more of both.
but the places they are available to be acquired are quickly disappearing if not all together absent.
ultimately...the only man left will be the one with all the Time in the World...and whoever he sees fit to continue living.
preserve your Time, and the derivative, Money, will once again makes its appearance...just don't screw it up and never trade your time for it.
Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by michaelbrux
I'm not looking to navigate any jungles, rather to make life easier by injecting a little clarity and logic into the topic of currency. Obviously its not taking and I didn't really expect that it would, but the thought is now out there and I can't do more than that at this point.
Thinking in terms of market shares and stock prices and fed reserve instruments and mortgage credit default swaps and derivatives confuses the most highly paid economists so I wouldn't give two hoots what Coca cola has to complain about, or the banks. They all colluded to put the nation into this predicament and they will not be capable of rescuing themselves or anyone else because its a game played with fractional bank monopoly money.
The fact is that since the passage of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, the dollar has lost 97% of its previous value. Shoot, I can remember when a bottle of coke cost ten cents. Does that give you any indication of money's straight down volatility?
Originally posted by michaelbrux
don't you think if they were smart enough to put themselves into this situation, they are smart enough to get themselves out?
there is no predicament for them, but only for yourself and people like you.
Originally posted by frazzle
Originally posted by michaelbrux
don't you think if they were smart enough to put themselves into this situation, they are smart enough to get themselves out?
I think they think they're smart enough to get out but that remains to be seen. A few hanged and headless leaders from the past prove people who think they're smarter than anybody else don't always manage to get out in time.
there is no predicament for them, but only for yourself and people like you.
But not for you because you wil live forever, oodles of money will flow from "somewhere" and the women will all be young and beautiful for eternity.
If someone told me I'd have to live forever I'd take it as a personal threat. Beam me up.
Energy, something we require to live, is in essence money. And if you don't have it, you die.
Originally posted by Astyanax
Energy certainly can and has been used as money. Food and fuel are often used as currency under conditions of extreme social stress, such as wars, famines and revolutions. But the OP question is different; the question is, What is money? And the answer certainly isn't 'energy'. How much energy does your donation to the Church of Scientology buy you? How much did you pay for the energy that went into your bottle of Issey Miyake Pour Homme? It wasn't the energy you paid for, mostly, but something entirely different.
I have to say the OP is not very helpful on the question. First he or she gives us a story about inflation, then one about deflation, and finally shows that he or she does not really understand money by nominating the abolition of independent central banks or of interest (I'm not exactly sure which) as a cure for what ails the modern economic system. Neither of these shifts, nor any of the hundreds of others dreamt up by economists and cranks, will serve as a permanent fix. All such solutions are inevitably superseded by the problems they themselves create.
Perhaps you have misconstrued what the word energy represents in this context. It is not what happens when you flip a switch and the light comes on or what the power companies produce, it refers specifically to human energy expended.
Nowhere does a locally created currency represent a store of value as its main function is to build an economy by changing hands and moving goods and services as rapidly as possible, so it does serve as an agreed upon medium of exchange on whatever you and others place value.
The stories ares not about inflation vs deflation, the examples given show what happens with a currency that is based on production and consumption and controlled by the people, versus a centrally controlled banking system that controls both production and consumption, as well as circulation. In an economy with free based currency, which is earned rather than borrowed, the people trading with it determine everything.
The interesting part of your response is "what money does to people who don't have enough".
Money is a version of my time.
So I can say that awareness is money too since it's a survival strategy. But it's generic and could be any number of things. For example instinct could be considered awareness stored in our DNA.
To eliminate money you have to eliminate value. How?
We cannot live without money unless there's infinity and no limits on our use of it.
Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by frazzle
That is simply Marx's 'labour theory of value', which he outlines in the early chapters of Das Kapital. As an economic proposition, it has long been discredited. Markets do not assign value to a good based on the labour put into it but according to the laws of supply and demand.
Anyway, jonnywhite did not mean what you think he meant. He was talking specifically about physical energy. It is actually a far more sophisticated take on money than Marx's naively idealistic one.
Every peasant believes that usury is the root of all evil, but that is only because he has not the wit to understand the uses of money. Usury is an inevitable consequence of money. Look what happens in the world of Islamic finance; interest is haram, so Islamic financiers operate on a system of fees and rebates. In the end it comes down to the same thing: a charge on the use of money.
I repeat: man proposes, money disposes. If you want to make an intelligent reply to my post, you will have to chew on that statement first.