A Right is not a Priviledge.

I was going to post this in reply to another thread regarding driving Legislation (made up rules), but I thought it was worth discussing in a separate one.

Your rights are not up for negotiation. You were born with them. Government can list them and protect them but never take them from you. They can however deceive you into contracting with them under the pretense that you need their permit or license. In fact they are breaking the Law by doing so. Even though you may have unknowingly agreed to their terms, full disclosure on their part was never given. Making any contracts null and void. They are committing fraud on a massive scale.

While under their system, driving (commercial activity) is a privilege. Traveling is most certainly not. Your freedom of movement is a right that can not be legislated away.

You don't need a license to travel in your own car. That is a right. They use words to deceive you into thinking you need permission from them. If you drive (commercial activity) a vehicle (commercial instrument) you are essentially working as an employee of the state and as such they are your boss and can tell you what to do.

There is a very good reason they use another language (Legalese) to manipulate and deceive.

People really need to understand their own sovereignty. Your life is your own. You are the highest authority in your life. If you are asking an organization for permission then you will have to submit to their rules.

Good stuff. I agree with you, and Frederic Bastiat said it best when he stated that natural law takes precedence and is superior to man made law. Rights do indeed come from God, or for you Atheists out there, they come from nature. You have rights by virtue of the fact that you were born onto this Earth a free and sovereign individual person. Now for reality.... try making that argument in a court of law. You'll lose, especially in regards to driving. Again, I agree with your sentiment, but in reality this train of thought is derailed by our Godless, corrupt legal and political system at all levels.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


I think the idea is not to even let it get as far as court. I know quite a few people who have basically just told the courts that they do not wish to do business with them, that they do not waiver any of their rights and that any attempt to contract with them will be on their terms and a charge of their making will be applied.

They are doing commerce after all. You have to really know your stuff though.

Originally posted by Namaste1001
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

I think the idea is not to even let it get as far as court. I know quite a few people who have basically just told the courts that they do not wish to do business with them, that they do not waiver any of their rights and that any attempt to contract with them will be on their terms and a charge of their making will be applied.

They are doing commerce after all. You have to really know your stuff though.

Yeah, you would REALLY have to know your stuff, because if 99.9% of us tried that approach we would end up in jail.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


The basic premise is actually very simple. You are not giving up your rights and you do not wish to contract. The problem is the courts are highly trained in the art of deception and they are also playing by their own rules which were never made clear to you.

The government is the reason why you are born with rights. In the natural order of things we have nothing but the right to die. Without the government giving and protecting the said rights, there possibly would be none.

It is a privilege to be born with the notion that you even have rights.

I am somewhat confused by your thread. You are not born with any rights. If you are fortunate enough to live in a country that values the individual and freedom, then it may speak of rights it is giving you, but if you are born into slavery, not so much.

Driving is a privilege as you state, not a right as you further argue.

While under their system, driving (commercial activity) is a privilege. Traveling is most certainly not. Your freedom of movement is a right that can not be legislated away. You don't need a license to travel in your own car. That is a right.

In many countries travel is not allowed except by permission, so even this is not a right.

Two people that don't understand their own sovereignty.

Government is a representative institution. It is not in the business of giving rights. Read the picture I posted. I can't say it any clearer than that.

Government cannot grant you a damn thing. You both sound as though you actually believe in your own servitude.

reply to post by Iamschist


You are confusing rights and privileges. Like I said it's all in the wording. When they us the word driving they are not using English. They are using Legalese. In that legal language Driving is defined as a commercial activity that can be licensed and controlled.

Traveling on the other hand is a right and cannot have such limits placed on it.

This is the problem that I am having right now.

I received a DWI last February after leaving a local bar. I hadn't made it a mile and a half down the street and there was a state trooper behind me. He obviously watched me leave the bar. Police made me submit to a field sobriety test in a completely iced over parking lot.

I had thought that I had passed the FST, but the police officer regretfully informed me that I had failed due to "not counting my nine steps out loud". In the back of the squad car I went. Along with my fiance and my friend who which were never asked for any identification. Just thrown in the back of the car. My friend had his Sig on him at the time and the police NEVER ASKED FOR HIS ID. NOTHING!! HOW UNPROFESSIONAL!!

But anyway....

Went to the station, submitted to a breathalizer where I just so conveniently blew a .08.

Issued two tickets for DWI and was told that the judge in this particular town was very liberal and would most likely drop it to a DWAI (Driving while ability impaired) which is a moving violation in NY.

Now, this is what is killing me right now.

I had the option of either

a) have my license suspended for 90 days

or

b) enroll myself into the NYS DMVs Drunk Driving Program which would allow me to carry a conditional license and drive to and from work.

The DDP is a 7 week in class program where you watch depressing movies about how people have killed other people while being completely hammered. It certainly got its point across.

BUT....they make you fill out what they call a "RIASI" test. Its basically a 50 question test asking how many drinks I have per night or if I have alchoholics in my family.

I failed the RIASI test with a 12 out of 10. I was never allowed to see which questions I got wrong.

So this test that I failed forced me to go see a family psychiatrist. The doc was a fantastic guy and we talked mostly about the Yankees and golf. But at the end he gave me a pee-cup and asked me to give a urine sample, so I did.

The night before I had had a drink with dinner.

I failed my pee-test.

NYS DMV proceeded to tell me that I was an alcoholic and that I needed to be entered into a treatment program that I would have to pay out of my own pocket. Now at this time I had lost my job because, well, I was a driver for Red Bull and they didn't like the fact that I got a DUI. I dont blame them, and I take full responsibility for my actions. But I am no alcoholic.

I choose to drop out of the program.

I was informed that dropping out of the program would cause me to lose my CONDITIONAL drivers license which would reinstate the 90 day flat out suspension of my drivers license.

NYS DDP

sCREEninG AnD REfERRAl
Some DDP participants are referred from the class- room phase for formal substance abuse evaluation. Referral can result from:
• the results of a written self-inventory.
• two or more alcohol or drug-related driving convictions within 10 years.
• arrest for an alcohol or drug-related driving violation while enrolled in the DDP.
• attending class under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
• a request by the student for help with a substance abuse problem, or an admission that the student is currently in treatment.
If you are referred for evaluation, you may choose a provider from a list supplied by the DDP. If you are not satisfied with the results of the evaluation, you may contact the DDP director and request a second evalua- tion. However, you must accept the findings of the second evaluation.
After evaluation, you may be required to complete a formal substance abuse treatment program. If you fail to complete required evaluation or treatment, you will be dropped from the DDP and your conditional license will be revoked.

and this:

If you are dropped from the Drinking Driver Program, your conditional license will be revoked, and your original license suspension or revocation will be reinstated for its full length.

It is now IMPOSSIBLE for me to receive my drivers license back according to the DMV without going to seek treatment for an alcohol problem that I DONT HAVE. The DUI was the first time I have ever been in any legal trouble.

Now I am a stay at home Dad with no license, no vehicle, no job. I guess NYS would rather pay unemployment then actually let people work.

The concept of "rights" is a purely human construct which exists nowhere else in nature.

In the world, life exists and survives dependent upon opportunistic behaviours and, often within the animal realm, an established hierarchy stratified from priveledged to servant. You have no more "rights" than does a lion cub in the wild.

And what is a country but an agreement between a group of people living on a land mass. The authority is always derived from the people.

We are the authority who allow the institution to represent us. We are governed by consent.

reply to post by Namaste1001


There is no right to travel, period, at any time our government can deny us travel. I do not know where you are getting this.

reply to post by olliemc84


It's a driving license, not a traveling license.

Your right to travel is listed under the bill of rights of several constitutions. Your rights always supersede legislative policies which are nothing more than commercial contracts.

reply to post by Iamschist


Incorrect. They can deny you the privilege of having their license which you don't need to travel anyway.

Freedom of movement is listed as a right.

reply to post by Namaste1001


Please show me where in the Constitution your right to travel is? Your world view is skewed by having grown up with freedom which you now feel is a right, but in point of fact, it is not. Freedom including that of movement is bestowed upon you and is a privileged which you "earn" by obeying laws and being a "good citizen" . What the government giveth, it can always take away.

reply to post by Iamschist


I'm afraid you are not understanding what I'm saying.

The notion that the state has supreme power over the individual is one of Communism. In any country with a representative government the power always comes from the people.

If you don't have such basic rights as the freedom of movement and speech then you are no better than a slave.

Originally posted by Iamschist
reply to post by Namaste1001

 

Please show me where in the Constitution your right to travel is? Your world view is skewed by having grown up with freedom which you now feel is a right, but in point of fact, it is not. Freedom including that of movement is bestowed upon you and is a privileged which you "earn" by obeying laws and being a "good citizen" . What the government giveth, it can always take away.

Please read the bill of rights.
It's right there. He is completely correct here.

reply to post by Namaste1001

The authority is always derived from the people.

You and I are lucky enough to have been born with the privileged to believe so.

reply to post by tamusan


Free will is inherent in you. Any individual or organization that purposely breaks that free will is in the wrong.