Men and women really do have fundamentally different characteristics

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by kaylaluv
About 15 years ago, my husband worked with a female engineer - he claims she was the best he had ever seen, including compared to himself. She had been there longer than he had - she even trained him. He had drinks with her one night after work, and she admitted what her salary was. It was less than his. They had the same education, basically the same experience, and she had been there longer. How is that fair?

It isn't.

I did read previously however that once experience is taken into account and the fact that women take time off to have kids, male and female engineers are paid exactly the same on average.

Young females also take up something like 58% of all university places these days and out earn young males.

Nowadays, some men take "paternity leave" to stay home and take care of baby while the mother continues to work. My husband's cousin (works for a law-firm) did exactly that a couple of years ago. Anything wrong with that, if both spouses agree on it? How should that affect men's salaries overall?

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Nowadays, some men take "paternity leave" to stay home and take care of baby while the mother continues to work. My husband's cousin (works for a law-firm) did exactly that a couple of years ago. Anything wrong with that, if both spouses agree on it? How should that affect men's salaries overall?

Nothing wrong with it at all. Far fewer men want to do that however, meaning the impact on male salaries if they are tied to seniority are less impacted than female ones.

reply to post by ollncasino


could you imagine being born a women? did women choose be born women?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
could you imagine being born a women? did women choose be born women?

Could I imagine being allowed to retire before a man, to have a much longer life expectancy and to have the choice whether I have a career or stay at home and look after the kids?

They say it is a man's world but I'm not so sure.

reply to post by ollncasino


oh wow,,, so your thread should just be titled; women stink, they have cooties... no girls allowed


p.s. your hardly even the traditional man, if you are complaining about women getting to live a few years longer, and whatever else,,, the bond of man and women is necessary for procreation, always has been,, throughout history man has protected,praised, fought for and loved his women,,, this still occurs,, ive only read a few of your comments so what exactly are you whining about?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Zinky
I read the article and it comes off as inconclusive to me. Additionally it states that there were variances in 18% of the people / test subjects; that's a pretty large number.

But by estimating the average difference in men's and women's scores on each of the test's 15 different measures of personality, and comparing them against one another, researchers found that in fact the sexes shared less ground than previously thought.

While 18% of males had a typically "female" set of traits or vice versa, 82% did not.

While 18% is a pretty large number, 82% is even bigger.

edit on 18-4-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

My point being is that the methodology is flawed. Too many outliers. Their 'interpretation' does not match the original results either. Further, sweeping conclusions have been drawn here which seem to promote an agenda of conformity.

Is this what you want?

I am curious as to why there is so much anti female sentiment on this site. Why does it bother you so much if a woman is successful?

Do you really want to gain at the expense of others? That's the coward's way man. Another's success does not prevent you from being successful.

Conformity is not the answer either. There is a clear agenda of promoting conformity in this flawed study. Which is the ridiculous part because even as they tried to push their agenda - they still couldn't jigger the numbers to line up. *This* is what's clearly wrong with the whole thing.

Don't blame others for your lack of success. Some envisioned system of conformity will not make any one of us successful. Only the individual can do that for themselves.

I do recommend that you adjust your thinking. Remember - another's success does not negate your potential success.

Give up on the Right Wing BS also. They just want people to breed more consumers so they can make money off of them. Try to see the agenda behind the rhetoric.

Women are not your enemy. And neither are those of other colors or orientations or mindsets or anyone else.

It does baffle me that so many people seem so conformist and fearful here. Why?

Expand your thinking. Blaming others for anything you lack is extremely bad form also. Makes you look weak. Mark of the loser.

Try not to be so fearful. Especially of females. They're not out to get you. People are all the same in that they just want what they want. Don't mistake that for some personal grudge *against you*. Just because someone else wins that doesn't mean that you lose.

Take the Right Wing Conformist BS with a grain of salt also. They just want to breed more consumers.

Yes, men and women are different. If they weren't, we would all be gay.

Originally posted by Zinky
Don't blame others for your lack of success.

Women are not your enemy. And neither are those of other colors or orientations or mindsets or anyone else.

Expand your thinking. Blaming others for anything you lack is extremely bad form also. Makes you look weak. Mark of the loser.

Try not to be so fearful. Especially of females.

Who are you referring to?

It doesn't appear to be me.

Look, men and women are different. They are equal but they are different as much as feminist dogma would like to assert that men and women are identical in every way. If they were, procreation would be impossible.

I guess you need a degree before you can say "water is wet" these days.

reply to post by ollncasino


UH, Feminists claim we're not different. Hmmmm......No, not the real feminists, the ones who I was raised by, including the men in the family. Feminism was the word that meant equality. That means, "work of equal value", not the "same", but the different works are all needed.

Going home, progressing means wedding Male Energies (this is the ideal higher frequency forms not their base distortion of male energy), of Freedom, Creativity, to the Ideal Female Energies of Equality and Unconditional Love.

Feminism has nothing to do with abandoning children, (talk to the hand), and joining the male domination game of forced slavery by corporations.

That is what politicans turned things into by raising basic living costs so that it took 2 incomes to pay rent or buy a home.

When I was growing up in my feminist family, wages were higher, ie if you worked as a dry waller you made over 18$ an hour, not 10$, apartments were 200 or so a month, and you could own your own home on payments, that cost around 40 000 in total.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by ollncasino

 

UH, Feminists claim we're not different. Hmmmm......No, not the real feminists, the ones who I was raised by, including the men in the family. Feminism was the word that meant equality. That means, "work of equal value", not the "same", but the different works are all needed.

Women are equal to men.

What I find interesting is that much feminism focuses on telling men that being men is wrong but telling females to adopt masculine roles.

The irony.

As far as inequality of pay, I wouldn't be surprised if much of that inequality disappeared when you factor in past experience and description of the job title rather than referring to same pay for the same work. I would expect someone with an engineering degree with several years of experience for example to be paid a lot more than someone with a couple of years experience working in the engineering department even if they happen to be working on similar work much of the time. Just because for example the engineer was hired to do engineering type of work but ends up doing a lot of administrative type of computer work while an assistant does much of the same type of work, that doesn't mean they should be paid the same. It just means the workplace is doing a poor job of shifting work responsibilities around in my opinion.

If there is still pay inequality after equal background and equal job titles, then I might suspect females take it as is while males are more likely to quit and get a new job with higher pay. I'm still working a job with tiny little pay increases and I know I'm about 18% underpaid on a national average. Moving and finding a new job is a big hassle just to attempt to get equal pay or something closer to the national average. Although you need to factor in lower cost of living for the area you are living in. I'm male and don't think it seems fair either when you know you're not getting your fair share. It's possible females are less likely to quit due to a slightly lower pay than males. I suppose those roles could be switching in some households if females make more than the men. I've been told by relatives you have to keep moving around and changing jobs to keep getting significant pay increases.

I agree there are some differences between the genders.

I wonder how much of what this study found is based on social norms and the roles people think they have to play (which shape their personalities) as opposed to a base and ingrained difference. There are definately some, but I suspect the difference is being overstated.

Like a poster above said I think the goal is to be balanced. Males can develop "feminine" aspects of themselves and vice versa. I think that would make society stronger as a whole.

This is just confirming stuff most of us already knew, though it is nice to have a study that backs up your life experiences. There are fundamental differences between men and women not only in terms of physical features, but also in other areas such as psychology, physiology and cognition. While men and women are quite different in many respects, both deserve the same rights and opportunities. I think humanity would benefit greatly if instead of teaching youth that "we are all the same", attention be given to explain the differences and similarities between the sexes.

Originally posted by Cecilofs
Like a poster above said I think the goal is to be balanced. Males can develop "feminine" aspects of themselves and vice versa. I think that would make society stronger as a whole.

That does seem to be the feminst dogma. Encourage men to act like women and women to act like men.

You have to wonder how the human race has managed to survive for the last 100,000 years without feminists.

The ironic thing is, if feminism is a genetic trait, they are doing a pretty good job of removing those genes from the gene pool.

I don't want my men acting like women. I don't want to act like a man.
I want men and women to respect each other and love each other for what they are.

reply to post by Zinky


This just seems like typical feminist propaganda. There are many unwarranted accusations made against the OP. There are appeals to emotion and dismissal of facts. Why is it so hard for you to admit that men and women are different? Different does not mean better or worse, it just means not identical.

This study needs to be balanced by research about:

- how men differ between each other
- how women differ between each other

I bet the results will show the same.
So sick of this dualistic reproduction. Seems like history teaches 'us' nothing.