PENNSYLVANIA LAW: Forces Doctors to HIDE what makes some of their patients sick!

I shared my thoughts earlier in this post about how I interupt this bill, basically a manipulation of the law to avoid liablity by corporations to individuals, communities, and in this case PA, for causing "harm", and to"gag" expert wittnesses (doctors) that could shed insight through thier observations and medical knowledge, especially if they are seeing higher than normal numbers of cancer and illness in a specific area that a may be contaminated by a given corporation.

I hope the OP won't mind if I stray from the original post and share these thoughts as well.....What kills me is the huge amounts of money and power it must take to avoid being liable for the problems, could actually FIX them, or at the very least BEGIN to fix them. It was refreshing, or at least a brilliant PR move when the CEO of Toyota came out and ADMITTED the company made mistakes, they took thier "blows" financially and publically.

Now I know that a company like Toyota that depends on public opinion to survive, certainly has different motivations for disclosure, than a company less known that produces a "service" or "product" that also has caused "more" harm due to ,short sideness, a lack of technology, greed, political concerns, etc., etc., etc......

Oh Frack, lol, the more I write the less "confident" and effective I feel in contributing anything realistic or positive to this conversation, it just sucks, and it's so discouraging, I just don't have it in me at the moment to "find any silver linings".....sorry to be negative, tomorrow I will get up and try again....

Very good thread....lot's to think about....wish you all everything good......♫

reply to post by braindeadconservatives


braindeadconservatives

Please remember that the law pertains to the fracking fluid that will be used for fracking. It DOES NOT pertain to the sludge that may result. Sludge is a waste - not a specific recipe and is NOT proprietary information.

I don't know the exact laws in the states (I am Canadian) but in ontario, any thing that is discharged to the environment is not PROPRIETARY and sample results may be shared publically. As a matter of fact, the Ministry of the Environment has a website which publishes an annual report of every liquid discharge to the environment (municipal or private) and any violations of quality that occurred.

Tired of Control Freaks.

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks

Why would the patient need to know the exact recipe to receive treatment or to be advised that it is the fracking fluid that is making his sick?

SO HE CAN MAKE THEM TAKE RESPONSIBLITY AND SUE THEIR BOTTOMS OFF AND WORK TO OVERTURN THIS CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. OH AND BECAUSE HE COUNTS AND AS ONE OF THE EMPLOYER GROUPS WHO HIRES PUBLIC SERVANT EMPLOYEE POLITICIANS, HE HAS A RIGHT TO FULL KNOWLEDGE FROM HIS MINIONS, IE THOSE HE HIRES.

GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


Because we RULE and they DROOL! Democracy 101. And yeah we aint allowing them to change it! They go to jail for thinking like that!

When the minion public servants commit treason and mutiny and try to entrench rule over their Employers, then its time for the Employers to form real police amongst themselves, real People's Courts and their Own Jail Houses, and Perform the Arrests! They're getting really close to the line there!

This news really makes me want to invest in pharmaceuticals. Think of all the money they are gonna make. All because the "industry" controls our government. I really can't help but laugh and cry at the time. Think of all the sickness that will be spread, the dying children, the poor that can not afford any health care. WOW! The only time this will be considered wrong is when those with health care and the wealthy become sick. You know it, and so do I. Unless something affects those in power, it's not an issue. And people will go on about their normal lives thinking the whole time that it will never touch them. Sooner or later people will have to wake up. I'm afraid though it will be later, when there is nothing they will be able to do. Funny how our own elected officials will go along with something like this. And to think, we voted them in. But again, nothing will be done until some wealthy child gets sick and dies because of this. This is just another step up to total control. And to those that think the company has a right to keep what they are doing as a secret ingredient just to protect themselves from others doing the same thing....You should look into the eyes of your own child. This is the crap they will have to suffer from and try to clean up. Who was it that said, " A child should not suffer the sins of the father."?

reply to post by Unity_99


Unity_99

And if the patient were to be told by his doctor that benzene, just one ingredient in the fracking fluid recipe, is causing his respiratory issues, would he still not be able to sue the companies butt off?

Again - why does he need the entire recipe?

Do you not understand that if you don't allow companies (who are persons under the law) the right to privacy, then you have no right to demand it for yourself? Others could successfully argue that a law to invade your right to internet privacy is protecting a potential pedophile. Therefore, since some unknown child is at risk, you have no right to internet privacy?

Those who would have both security and liberty will end up with neither!

I think this law is a good compromise between the company's right to privacy and the need of private individuals to have pertinent information provided to their caregiver. I do not see how splashing the exact recipe for the companies fracking fluid across the front page provides any further protection for the health of the individual.

Health considerations, while certainly very important, do NOT trump civil rights! Or if they do, be prepared that you have no civil rights. What you deny to others, will be used as an excuse to deny you the very same things? Privacy is NOT an issue to be decided on a case by case basis in accordance with public opinion. It is a right under the law.

Tired of Control Freaks.

Docs didn't need a law anywhere in the US and possibly other countries to "not tell patients how to cure/help themselves!" This is how they make a living!! From SICK people. This is how big pharma owns us and our grandchildren too! The law is only a facade... to make the people 'think' they still have a choice... LOL!! Fat chance.
We are pawns in this game and have been for many many years... I'm sure others have said the same, I can't read the entire thread now, although I read some. This isn't a shocker at all. It's just part of the game.

You know another reason why we wont be able to 'sue' the pants off drug companies? They are made in China. Who would we sue??? We can't go over there and do anything to those people!! We wouldn't find a lawyer in the world who would take that on... If they did, THEY would NOT be able to FIND who manufactured it to sue anyone!! .. We have no one to sue, period. Robotic pharmacies are already functioning in some parts of the world. High paid pharmacists who spent near as long as a med student does in college for their degree are being laid off and we'll be sticking our paper barcoded prescriptions in a machine which will spit out our pills and dispense them like a bank atm or those air shoots. The only paid employees then will be the minimum wagers who have to re-stock those robot machines... So, no. No one can win against big pharma. The doctors cant tell us half of the stuff they know will cure us, because they are all in it for the MOOLAH... Cancer is curable. No doubt.. Just do some research. No one wants us to know that simply because of the already over populated earth and money money MONEY!!

Sad, truth. Sorry if anyone has already said this.. or something similar. I'm just skimming now, it's nearly bedtime here and I've been traveling all day...

This is not an Original Idea OP... It's been happening to us for so long, most are brainwashed into believing that 'My doctor wouldn't do that!". BS... They will because they have to.

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


no, dude.....naw
your train of thought leaves our future all shot-up. re-think, please

reply to post by loam
Clearly, people are making different interpretations of the statute. Since the health professioinals are allowed to use the information in rendering care to a patient who they believe to be affected by the fracking chemicals, and since the provision of care may involve telling the patient their diagnosis and the likely cause/remedy for the diagnosis, it seems to me that the health professional who received the information about the fracking chemicals can discuss the chemical contents with the patient. They could not publicly announce the chemical details of the fracking solution.
The original bill was introduced with the intent of forcing the frackers to dislose the chemical content of the fracking solution to healthcare professionals so that the professional can render appropriate care to a patient who was exposed to the fracking solution. Clearly, some compromises occurred in the legislative process in order to garner the votes of legislators who were friendly to the companies that are doing the fracking.
All the evidence I have seen suggests that fracking has negative consequences for the people in the fracking zone, but our thirst for cheap energy keeps the frackers going full-tilt.

reply to post by loam


wtf is fracking fluid? What do they use it for?

never heard of this at all.

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


Because if his health is affected he has the absolute right to know what risk they took with it and what the whole formula is.

And they don't have any right to take this risk with others.

Its also called TEETH, the Public Need To have Big Teeth and the Evol Corps brought down to size.

Realize why doctors can access the "secret recipies" of fracking for the sake of their patients, in case of an allergy or toxic reaction, for the sake of treating the illness, but they are not allowed to disclose that to anybody else. It's a secret!

Oh great, so let's pretend I'm a spy and I want to know what the secret recipe of the fracking company in ...Texas, for pretend, so I can send it to another country for a pile of money. So I'm going to grab my kid and drag him in to say he's acting sick because of the local fracking operation, and I demand to know what's in there! Doctor can call the number, get the MSDS sheet, and some other chemistry-related names of the secret sauce the company pumps underground, but he will lose his license, and be sued up and down his practice, for disclosing the recipe to me, even if I demand it and threaten him with legal problems and such.

It's just what they do. It's a company trade secret, the recipe for fracking. Like Coca Cola has a secret recipe for their flavoring. Or what happens behind the R&D doors of big companies is a secret. If you really want to know, join the company, or become a doctor and make a bogus call, spy on your own time and take your own risks with the laws. And it's not just in Pennsylvania. I think it may be in all the states of the USA.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
reply to post by loam

 

wtf is fracking fluid? What do they use it for?

never heard of this at all.

It is used to get to, access and extract fossil fuels that would traditionally be un extractable underground,
it is also highly toxic...

Originally posted by Sandalphon
Realize why doctors can access the "secret recipies" of fracking for the sake of their patients, in case of an allergy or toxic reaction, for the sake of treating the illness, but they are not allowed to disclose that to anybody else. It's a secret!

Oh great, so let's pretend I'm a spy and I want to know what the secret recipe of the fracking company in ...Texas, for pretend, so I can send it to another country for a pile of money. So I'm going to grab my kid and drag him in to say he's acting sick because of the local fracking operation, and I demand to know what's in there! Doctor can call the number, get the MSDS sheet, and some other chemistry-related names of the secret sauce the company pumps underground, but he will lose his license, and be sued up and down his practice, for disclosing the recipe to me, even if I demand it and threaten him with legal problems and such.

It's just what they do. It's a company trade secret, the recipe for fracking. Like Coca Cola has a secret recipe for their flavoring. Or what happens behind the R&D doors of big companies is a secret. If you really want to know, join the company, or become a doctor and make a bogus call, spy on your own time and take your own risks with the laws. And it's not just in Pennsylvania. I think it may be in all the states of the USA.

edit on 28-3-2012 by Sandalphon because: (no reason given)

The reason they don't want people to know the full ingredients is because if people know what was being
pumped into their environment, they would put and end to it, it is sort of a simple concept...

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Unity_99

And if the patient were to be told by his doctor that benzene, just one ingredient in the fracking fluid recipe, is causing his respiratory issues, would he still not be able to sue the companies butt off?

Again - why does he need the entire recipe?

Because other compounds can warrant other treatments. There may be compounds that are
undetectable by certain tests....Is this really that far over your head man?

reply to post by Unity_99


Unity_99

A government that is big enough to give you ALL that you want - is big enough to TAKE all that you have.

If constitutional rights to privacy are not protected for all - then none will have them

Don't you see that fear is being used to take away your civil rights. Fear of health risks, fear of environmental risks, fear of terrorists, fear of drug dealers, fear of pedophiles and porn?

Is it not enough for you that a Doctor has the information he needs to inform you that you are ill due to chemical exposure and to device treatment option.

What advantage does having the exact recipe give you that you are willing to give up your right to privacy?

Tired of Control Freaks

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Unity_99

A government that is big enough to give you ALL that you want - is big enough to TAKE all that you have.

If constitutional rights to privacy are not protected for all - then none will have them

Don't you see that fear is being used to take away your civil rights. Fear of health risks, fear of environmental risks, fear of terrorists, fear of drug dealers, fear of pedophiles and porn?

Is it not enough for you that a Doctor has the information he needs to inform you that you are ill due to chemical exposure and to device treatment option.

What advantage does having the exact recipe give you that you are willing to give up your right to privacy?

Tired of Control Freaks

You are using fear to justify your list of fears

It is not private when it is forced into the water table that everyone must share and use.

reply to post by braindeadconservatives


Braindeadconservative

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I have previously reported that the fracking recipe is shared with government agencies for the purposes of controlling what is being used. You obviously are not happy with this and feel that just any private citizen must have the entire recipe in order to do "something" with it.

By your reasoning - coke cola must also publish their recipe, KFC must publish their recipe, anyone who manufactures any product that may be consumed or may end up in the environment must publish their recipe and there is no competition between companies as just anyone may steal a desired recipe and use it.

You certainly deserve to have every company move out of United States to a country where they can protect their proprietary information, developed as a result of some very expensive research and not have to give it out for free to whoever cares to use it.

The composition of fracking fluid is generally known - as previously pointed out by another poster and is generally available on the internet. But apparently, this also is insufficient for your purposes.

You have no respect for constititional rights - you believe that your right to know supercedes even the constitution. Therefore, it is logical to assume that the constitution means nothing to you and that you are willing to give up all of your rights under the law.

Good luck with that and BTW - I will oppose you in this venture to destroy constitutional rights for the simple reason that you have yet to tell me exactly why you need the entire recipe.

Tired of Control Freaks