Russia Rules Out New Iran Sanctions Over Nuclear Report

Originally posted by steaming
I wonder just what the , 'Said to have Failed'., Russian space craft is really carrying ????? After all it is now in orbit, is it no?

Its actually in a parking orbit, not a regular orbit. They are trying to resolve the problem and get the thrusters to fire. Also, the craft was launched which placed it in close proximity to the Internatioanl space Station, who were able to get a visual on the probe and confirm no thrusters fired to get the probe on course.

If it had alterior motives, like being used as a weapon, I dont think Russia would be naieve enough to attempt to do anything in this manner. With the closeness of the Space Programs of Russia, Us, China and the ESA (actually all nations with a space program all cooperate and monitor each other) I think any subterfuge would have been descovered by now.

This might be a good test for the X-37B though, maybe even possibly for the newer test version that would be capable of carrying humans.

As a side note China and Russia both have come to the defense of Iran, which is why I think Iran is speaking in terms that alone would be to big for their britches.

The level of involvement Russia and China have with Iran in this matter would suggest something beyond just the protecting "economic issues" position they are dancing around with..

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


your 'evidence' is based on corporate sources and secondly Russia is not communist ,but capitalist, and its USA which increasingly communist.

Thirdly ,please prove that Putin or FSB ordered Politskovskyaya assassination..
Please prove that klebnikov's assassination was ordered by FSB/or Putin.

Im not even defending the US... and how can i be disagreeing with Russia and a communist sympathizer. Unless your referring to my display picture, and then your really stretching...

Im not even defending the US... and how can i be disagreeing with Russia and a communist sympathizer.

Russia is capitalist not communist,USA is a communist nation

Unless your referring to my display picture, and then your really stretching...

What looks like a duck, quacks like one

reply to post by Xcathdra


I agree on this totally.I doubt Russia and USA would like to weaponise space,creates a whole new bunch of troubles

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


Lol. I'm well aware that Russia isn't communist. But you know... Russia... the home of communism in the 20th century... i think you could have made the connection, but didnt feel like it.

You want proof? well then, i guess you will never believe anything until you see it with your own eyes, in which case trying to show you anything is clearly useless.

Im a history student. I have that poster in my room. Its funny... Welcome To The Party... get it? There all wearing party hats, and Mao-Tse Tung is the DJ. Lighten up.

Still, no evidence, no comment on anything i said, just relentless nagging for the fact that i dont agree with you. When you want to argue, im here, but this is nonesense.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42

Lol. I'm well aware that Russia isn't communist. But you know... Russia... the home of communism in the 20th century... i think you could have made the connection, but didnt feel like it

Russians spat on the grave of Lenin in 1991 when they overthrew the soviet union.And if Russia is communist why does it have 13% income tax?You live in the past USSR is gone and russia is more free market and capitalist than USA.

You want proof? well then, i guess you will never believe anything until you see it with your own eyes, in which case trying to show you anything is clearly useless. Im a history student. I have that poster in my room. Its funny... Welcome To The Party... get it? There all wearing party hats, and Mao-Tse Tung is the DJ. Lighten up

Have you read Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton,Mr.History know it all.

show you anything is clearly useless

you have shown nothing.

Still, no evidence, no comment on anything i said, just relentless nagging for the fact that i dont agree with you. When you want to argue, im here, but this is nonesense.

Nonsense from a commie sympathizer yes.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by ClydeFrog42

 

Russians spat on the grave of Lenin in 1991 when they overthrew the soviet union.And if Russia is communist why does it have 13% income tax?You live in the past USSR is gone and russia is more free market and capitalist than USA.

Lol... still dont understand what I mean? I suppose i dont expect a confrontational persona like yourself to bother.

Have you read Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton,Mr.History know it all.

ahahaha. Actually, i havent read every book every written, so if thats supposed to somehow be offensive... i fail to see your point.

have you read it?

I am in the middle of Anthony Edens memoirs, and PostWar by Tony Judnt, which is why i mention Suez, as it is immediately in my mind. of course, you have nothing to say about that. Just more Ad homenim arguments and none-senseical, baseless accusations of support for communism... still not sure where thats coming from.

you have shown nothing.

This is my argument. I only share my opinions, and my perspective on the subject. It is YOU who has shown nothing. Nothing more then confrontational garbage, and support of something that you fail to make clear...

I said:

I never said Russia is forcing Israel to attack. I also never said that international law is at the whim of Israel.

But, Sanctions are the PRIMARY mode of deterence by diplomatic means. If russia continues to back Iran financially, then all other diplomatic options are essentially off the table.

Im sure the UN has a list of other options, but i know for a FACT that Israel believes themselves to be working on a strict time table, and for an officially speaking "good cause".

Again, i will point to Suez. Just because international laws are in place, dopes not mean they are never sidestepped or broken. In fact, they are broken regularly. the UN security council is nothing more then an institution of last resort for the states involved, who have failed diplomacy by other means. and they are by no means the only way of getting things done on this planet.

If you look at the world as strictly abiding by international law, then yes, you are right. But, Russia is the last one to abide by these laws, and is only using the UN security council to take as many pot-shots as it can behind diplomatic cover.

And, of course, as always, the left leaning media will support this inaction whole-heartedly, as will leftist congressional leaders, making the US's job much harder then israel's. Not to mention the coming election. Its all about PR and public opinion on this side of the pond.

The logic of the situation is as i have stated. It is exactly analogous to Suez. Without Russia's support, the UN is a useless institution. So, saying that Israel/USA cant attack without the UN's support is basically saying they cannot attack at all.

Which we all think makes perfect sense. But from the western point of view, we have a problem on our hands, and Russia will obviously not budge on the subject of sanctions. They have ground to gain in this conflict.

Its a very complex situation, and in all likelihood both sides are full of crap. But, this is the world we live in. Everything isnt as neat and orderly as it appears.

Nonsense from a commie sympathizer yes.

If your going to make silly accusations, you might as well give a good reason...



I dont suspect that i will see any reason from you. I await your next offensive, meaningless response

I have given my thoughts, my reasons for believing what i do, and an analogous situation with which to compare. What have you given? Nothing. As they say, put up or shut up.

And calling me a Communist is only one kind of evidence, and not one that will pass for anyone besides yourself

Once again, you seriously need to lighten up

What I find interesting is that the Obama Administration did not really make a huge push for war against Iran until recently,yeah we heard some minor saber rattling here and there.But,they really only started to beat the war drum once the appointment of Philip Zelikow to the intelligence policy board was official then the shrill cries came.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42

This is my argument. I only share my opinions, and my perspective on the subject. It is YOU who has shown nothing. Nothing more then confrontational garbage, and support of something that you fail to make clear..

As usual nonsensical stuff.Lets see:

Russia has a tendency to assassinate its politicians and reporters of the opposition.

I asked:

Thirdly ,please prove that Putin or FSB ordered Politskovskyaya assassination.. Please prove that klebnikov's assassination was ordered by FSB/or Putin.

from our source:

Over the last month, Russia has experienced a surge of contract killings, with five high-profile murders -- a potent reminder that the country is far from the stable democracy its leaders say it is. The Oct. 7 murder of the anti-Kremlin journalist and human rights advocate Anna Politkovskaya is the most prominent of these, and the latest of 11 murders of Russian journalists in the last six years. Sadly, however, Politkoskaya's is not the most recent such killing. Aleksandr Plokhin, manager of the Moscow branch of the state-owned Vneshtorgbank, was shot dead on Oct. 10. And Anatoly Voronin, an executive at the state-owned ITAR-TASS news agency, was stabbed to death in his flat in Moscow Oct. 13. .

Where is it that Russian govt ordered the killings? Did FSB/russian govt/Putin announce it?
Like they say put up or shut up.

have you read it?

Yes. and its full of details about that Bolshevik Revolution and how Rockefeller and wall street were the brainchild of it and sponsored it.

Just more Ad homenim arguments and none-senseical, baseless accusations of support for communism... still not sure where thats coming from

What looks like a duck and quacks like one is a duck
like they say history is written by victors.So continue reading 'history' propaganda commie.

The other shoe?

PA warns violence could follow stymied UN bid

.......................PA officials on Thursday expressed outrage with the US administration, Britain and France for opposing the statehood bid.

“The Americans, British and French leaders are hypocrites and liars,” the official told The Jerusalem Post. “They are not any better than [Prime Minister Binyamin] Netanyahu.”

It remains unclear if the PA will now turn to the UN General Assembly and ask for observer status – a move that would give it de facto international recognition as a state, but with very limited rights.

Another official told the Post that Abbas was facing growing demands from Palestinians to dissolve the PA and “throw the keys back to Israel” so it would become responsible for running the Palestinians’ affairs.

The official said Abbas was planning to consult with a number of Arab leaders before making any decision that could have serious implications for the whole region. Other officials have been talking about the need to end the Fatah-Hamas dispute and form a unity government in light of the statehood plan’s failure.

Abbas and Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal are scheduled to meet in Cairo later this month to discuss ways of achieving “national reconciliation.”

Chief PLO negotiator Saeb Erekat, meanwhile, held separate meetings on Thursday with Quartet envoy Tony Blair, US Consul-General in Jerusalem Daniel Rubenstien and UN representative Robert Serry, and discussed the future of the peace process.

A Quartet delegation plans to hold separate meetings with Israel and the Palestinians on Monday. Erekat told the officials that the PA was prepared to deal with the Quartet, “individually and collectively,” regarding all the issues related to the peace talks with Israel.

Erekat reiterated the PA’s refusal to resume direct peace negotiations with Israel unless the government halted all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem and accepted the 1967 “borders” as the basis for a two-state solution.

Erekat also called upon the Quartet members – the US, EU, UN and Russia – to put pressure on Israel to release Palestinian prisoners, especially those who were imprisoned before the Oslo Accords were signed in 1993.

He told the three officials that the PLO remained opposed to the idea of a state with provisional borders and said that a final settlement to the conflict should include all core issues, such as borders, settlements, refugees, water, security and Jerusalem, as well as the release of all Palestinians from Israeli prisons................

Click link above for remainder of article.

Dissolving the PA and allowing Israel to run the affairs of the Palestinians while at the same time talking about violence if they arent recognized by the UN? In addition they now went back to their origional negotiation stance of all issues at once or nothing at all.

Still no recognitiong of Israel by some of the players invvoled, which mkes it hypocritical to deman they be reconized by a country thry refuse to reocgnize.

The timing in all of this seem a little convienent as well..


whats the saying - 4 columns are approching from the outside with a 5th column waiting on the inside?

reply to post by Xcathdra


seems like the arab nations and Israel want to destroy Iran and Iran them.Also,Israel would activate Samson option,hitting Moscow with a nuke which in could lead to nuclear attack on west by russia and Israel's total annihilation by Russia.

West and Russia destroy each other,China benefits the most.If that nonsense about those thousands of bunkers and underground cities in Russia is true,then the West is in deep trouble.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003

Still, no evidence, no comment on anything i said, just relentless nagging for the fact that i dont agree with you. When you want to argue, im here, but this is nonesense.

Nonsense from a commie sympathizer yes.

edit on 11-11-2011 by ludwigvonmises003 because: (no reason given)

Funny how you act like such an expert on communism, yet you prove how reactionary your "knowledge" really is when you say ludacris statements like "USA is now communist". The US is as far right as it can get, aside from Orwellian/Nazi oppressive tactics.

Care to explain how the US is communist, Mr. Expertpants? Because communism is all about classless society where the government is the vanguard political party of the working class. The US is a fascist plutocracy where the rich call the shots and the people simply fuel the system.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


Looks like your only response to anything i said (much more then "russia has a tendancy to assasinate opposition reporters"... which is true, based on sources much more substantial then you are exposed to in your "rivviting E-book") is referance to the book of a man who has been completely discredited by the historical and academic community.

You know its a great book when its unprecedentedly easy to find the entire text online, for free, on conspiracy websites.

Only on ATS

Anyways, if you have any REAL arguments, refuting anything i said that actually pertains to the discussion, i would be happy to hear it. All im reading is the same nonsense, and you pointing to the same conspiracy-geared book that hold no water.

What are you even talking about? lol.

I await the next chapter of your empty responses



I will certainly continue to read history... history written by historians. Historians from Western and Eastern Europe, written by poles, germans, russians, european born jews, americans, american Jews....

(yep, thats right, i read and take into account things that jews write, because some of them are the most rigorous academics in the world)

History isn't just "made up" like you might think. Although i can understand how you might think that judging by the "material" you muddle your mind with. The sheer volume of primary sources that i have poured over about 20th century history takes your "history is written by the winners" rhetoric and throw it out the window.

You clearly speak out of ignorance. Unless you have something meaningful to add to the discussion, I have no more reason to debate with you.

Put up or shut up. I presume this is goodbye... And certainly good riddance.



Edit: just read some uf stuttons conclusions, and the sources they are based on, and i have to say... wow!

Wow, as in, wow that he could take sources that perfectly match the actual history, and distort and misinterpret them to the point where he surmizes that the revolution was a "Jewish Conspiracy"

It was a German conspiracy, and the Jews were happy with bolshevism. The Jews were always happy with Bolshevism (for obvious reasons, until '67 anyways... not that you would know what im reffering to) and the germans were always trying to bring about a quick end to the Russia war effort.



Keep up the good research, "mr history know it all"



Time to lighten up, captain sandy vag.

Out of curiosity, and to give some perspective on your knowledge base, i would love to see a list of some other books you have read. Books that have not been deemed "off base" and "a failure to history".

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


Yawn ,writing rhetoric won't help and like I said before a lot of history is based on propaganda and stories rather than primary research.Dont believe Sutton , then refer to Soviet dissident Juri Lina's work its heavily based on primary research on early days of revolution in Russia.

and where is the evidence that Putin/FSB/Russian govt ordered the killings? you haven't provided any and are making baseless rants like 'Russia has tendency blah blah'. Put up evidence or shut up.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed


And no, I'm not saying Russia are perfect or trustworthy. I'm just saying they are more trustworthy than the modern day US or Israel by a long shot.

edit on 9-11-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

This is Russia’s fundamental hypocrisy. It simply cannot accept that the countries of Eastern Europe view Russia as being exactly the same kind of heavy-handed, arrogant power that Russia accuses the U.S. of being. The great difference, of course, is that in the open U.S. media Americans hear all of Russia’s complaints, but Russians never hear the complaints of Urkainians, Georgians and Lithuanians (or Poles, Czechs or Estonians) and therefore they live in a world of delusion fomented by relentless Kremlin propaganda. Russia stands utterly alone and despised in the world, yet like the infamous Emperor and his “new clothes” it imagines itself swathed in robes of ermine.

Annals of Russian Hypocrisy

After more than a decade of Vladimir Putin's rule, Russia has become a "KGB state." Although the KGB was abolished in 1991 after its chairman, Vladimir Kryuchhov, participated in the failed coup d'etat against USSR president Mikhail Gorbachev, the KGB mentality still thrives. Russian is run by former KGB officials and Kremlin-friendly oligarchs. They control industry, commerce, media, and banking, conduct covert operations at home and abroad, and operate their own prisons. They order telephone justice (tell judges their verdicts) and gather compromising material to intimidate opponents. If they do not directly order assassinations, they make sure that those who do are not caught. Outsiders do not know how the KGB state works. Insiders may be confused as well.

Russia's Economy: Putin and the KGB State

Yeah,really trustworthy..........

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


Why are you and several other posters all about nuclear weapons being used? Do you really think some of these governments are stupid enough to lob a nuke at moscow knowing full well the middle east would be turned into one huge glass factory / parking lot?

People need to get off the nukes being used conspiracy theory. Russia wont nuke the middle east sincce by doing so they would be contaminating themselves by virtue of prevailing winds.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I agree, it's tunnel vision and distraction from a bigger picture. With no precedent to support such a move, might I add.

Also, it may stir up further violence and activity from Russias Moslem (haven't seen it spelled that way for a while so thought I'd exercise it) population, partiularly the Chechnyans which the Russians have had a hand full dealing with in the past, not to mention the extensive list of other potential ramifications.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Absolutely correct.

I see alot of people also defending Russia,and blasting the US and Israel at any chance they can get.

Every country has its flaws,but some are alot worse then others. People need to do their homework,instead of dropping inane remarks.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I don't know about Russia being contaminated but Israel did target Moscow and European capitals under the Samson Option.

----
"The phrase the “Samson Option” is used to describe Israel’s strategy of massive nuclear retaliation against “enemy” nations should its existence as a Jewish state be jeopardized through military attack. Israeli leaders created the term in the mid-1960s, inspired by the Biblical figure Samson, who destroyed a Philistine temple, killing himself and thousands of Philistine enemies.[1][2]

Israel refuses to admit officially that it has nuclear weapons - a policy known as “nuclear ambiguity” or "nuclear opacity."[3] This despite government officials inferring repeatedly - and occasionally admitting - the fact. And despite Israeli nuclear whistle blower Mordechai Vanunu making public smuggled photographs of nuclear weapons and production equipment in the 1980s.[4] Israel now may have as many as 400 atomic and hydrogen nuclear weapons,[5][6] as well as the ability to launch them via long range missiles, submarines and aircraft.[7] It can use them in a second strike even if its military is devastated.

Originally a strategy of last resort retaliation - even if it means Israel’s annihilation - it has developed into being a nuclear bullying strategy to further Israel’s territorial goals through threats and blackmail. Israel has bullied not only Arab and Muslim nations, but the United States and Russia with its Samson Option threats. Mordechai Vanunu has alleged that Israel uses for purposes of blackmail its ability to "bombard any city all over the world, and not only those in Europe but also those in the United States."[8]"

www.carolmoore.net...
------------

In popular imagination, the Israeli bomb is a weapon of last resort, to be used only at the Last minute to avoid annihilation. This strategy, described by U.S. journalist Seymour Hersh as the "Samson Option," is backed by many supporters of Israel.
Whatever truth this formulation may have had in the minds of the early Israeli nuclear strategists, today the Israeli nuclear arsenal is inextricably linked to and integrated with overall Israeli military and political strategy. As Seymour Hersh says in classic understatement: "The Samson Option is no Longer the only nuclear option available to Israel.''
Israel has made countless veiled nuclear threats against the Arab nations and against the Soviet Union and by extension Russia since the official end of the Cold War. One chilling example comes from Ariel Sharon, now the Israeli Prime Minister: "Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches."
www.thirdworldtraveler.com...
-------------
From what I know Moscow is targetted by Jericho-2 missiles of Israel.
www.globalsecurity.org...

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003


I don't know about Russia being contaminated but Israel did target Moscow and European capitals under the Samson Option

I was not aware Israel had any ballistic missiles that could reach some of those capitals. As far as them targeting captials etc its nothing new. The Us, Russia, China, France, etc etc all have cities / installations pre-designated as targets.

As a side note I was looking into what a nuke could be used for. Some interesting options came up, along with info about designated targets in the US from Russia. There are some very rural areas / medium populaiton cities targeted.

Springfield Missouri (Southwest MO - population 200k) was one of those targets. For the life of me I couldnt figure out why, since there are no military bases in Springfield. Apparently at some point in the past all rail traffic heading west was routed through Springfield. Goofy times we are living in.

Im amazed we made it to the 21st century.