Tower of Babel and Modern Day Symbolism

Could the story of the tower of babel be an allegory to our modern use of technology?

I mean, the more we discover in science and technology, the more dangerous this world becomes on the grand scale of things. Could the story be advocating a more simple way of life? Even if you except that evil/bad/whatever will be in the world, wouldn't the simple life allow for an assurance of survival for humanity?

Honestly, what is the point of having so much technology? Do the benefits of having it outweight the cons? I don't think they do...

Nope
The tower of Babel is about the evil excesses that people can get up to if they all work together.

Its a creation theory as to the diversity of languages. In reality there IS an ancient language that is the root of all languages, so I read somewhere....

Byrd will know

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Could the story of the tower of babel be an allegory to our modern use of technology?

It's a "why things are" tale, much like a modern urban legend and was probably used by the rabbis and priests to explain why there's lots of languages. It's a take on an older Babylonian tale, I believe. Everybody starts working together and accomplishing things as great as the gods, so People Have To Be Stopped. Note that the "technology" (building high buildings) was something they already knew how to do.

In the "urban legend" category, it MIGHT ALSO have also been used to warn Good Jewish People from nasty technological inventions like concrete and glass bowls and silversmithing and weapons of iron (in another part of the Bible it says that God can't overcome a certain army because their weapons and chariots were of iron.) After seeing people building tall buildings, God becomes afraid that they will become equal to his power and because God is afraid, he scrambles the languages.

However, there's no support for this interpretation, since the Jewish leaders didn't stop their people from new technologies such as iron and glassmaking and silversmithing and so forth.

I mean, the more we discover in science and technology, the more dangerous this world becomes on the grand scale of things. Could the story be advocating a more simple way of life? Even if you except that evil/bad/whatever will be in the world, wouldn't the simple life allow for an assurance of survival for humanity?

It could be argued that yes, the story advocates leaving your house and running back to a semi-nomadic lifestyle where you live in tents. If this is your "thing" then go ahead... but you'll actually end up damaging the environment more.

Honestly, what is the point of having so much technology? Do the benefits of having it outweight the cons? I don't think they do...

Perhaps you don't have vision as poor as mine (20/700)... without technology, I literally cannot find small objects if I set them down. Reading and writing are both technological developments. So is mathematics (like being able to count change and calculate how much of what you have.) Perhaps you don't have any medical conditions (depression, high blood pressure, cholesterol, erectile dysfunctions) and perhaps your immune system is so good that if a plague of cholera went around you'd be fine.

The use of climate controls has extended our lives (for women, particularly) and birth control keeps us from breeding children until we die of exhaustion and raising the world's population even faster. And if you think cars are polluting, just imagine how your city would be if every family had (instead of two cars) two horses and a stable. Horses poop, you know, and a lot of it will pollute the environment and poison the streams.

Imagine no indoor plumbing (because plumbing's technology) and imagine all your neighbors with outhouses on their property (how about THAT smell and THAT pollution of the groundwater?)

...and so on and so forth.

People tend to think of "technology" as "something with computer chips in it that I don't approve of." Most of these folks wouldn't do without technology such as refrigerators, washing machines, vacums (imagine how dirty houses would be!), irons, electricity (when everyone burned coal and candles we had a lot more smog), gas stoves (or electric ones), X-ray machines... the list is endless.

Humans have tended to fear new technology as a sort of "frankenstein." It's difficult to see now how an electric refrigerator would be threatening to civilization but when refrigerators first came out, the hoary old story of the Tower of Babel was trotted out as an example of why you shouldn't have one of those awful things.

And so it goes. Our lives are better for it.



(edited to add "and guns! You'd be surprised how many people who think technology is threatening don't think of guns as technology. But they are. To go back to the pastoral state, they'd have to give up guns, bow and arrow, atl-atls, and go back to using slingshots. That they made themselves. From rocks (no evenly cast bullets) and hides.)

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Byrd]

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Byrd]

Originally posted by Netchicken
Nope

The tower of Babel is about the evil excesses that people can get up to if they all work together.

Its a creation theory as to the diversity of languages. In reality there IS an ancient language that is the root of all languages, so I read somewhere....

Byrd will know

(g) Actually, I do know because I happen to be taking courses this semester on ancient cultures and yesterday (in the class on American Indians) we happened to be talking about this very thing.

In the millions of years since humans began to speak and have organized sounds that make up languages, many different "groups" of languages have developed. While people live in one area, their language tends to be the same, but if they move away and live in another area, they need new words (the new hunting area doesn't have wooly mammoths, for example, but does have seals and walruses) to describe what they're doing and how they're living. The longer the two groups live apart, the more their languages diverge.

It's actually a fairly quick process. The current thinking about American Indians is that people first arrived in the Americas around 15,000 years ago (some say 20,000 and others think it's only 10,000, but 15,000 is a pretty good middle ground for everyone). During that time, they moved out to spread all over the land and this ancient root language was called "Amerind" (we don't know what THEY called it; that's what we call it.)

By the time of the second migration (some 8,000 years ago), the original Amerind speakers lived in both South America and North America and the languages were diverging enough that a person from Peru couldn't understand a person from Manitoba. At this time a second group comes across the Bering Strait.

So there's a new language that's mixing in with the old and because people move around, this language diverges.

About 5,000 years ago, the last group of speakers comes in. These are the Na-Dene and they kind of take over Canada... except for one group that apparently didn't like the cold. They moved down to New Mexico area and eventually became the Apaches.

By the time that Cortez arrived in the New World, over 600 languages existed here, developed from the original languages.

Does that seem like it was too little time for new languages to develop? Let me give you a good example of how much language has changed in good old English in under 1,000 years.


A good example can be given just by examining "The Lord's Prayer": www.georgetown.edu...


Here's part of the Lord's Prayer in Old English, circa 1200 AD:

F�der ure �u �e eart on heofonum
Si �in nama gehalgod
to becume �in rice
gewur�e �in willa
on eor�an swa swa on heofonum.
urne ged�ghwamlican hlaf syle us tod�g
and forgyf us ure gyltas
swa swa we forgyfa� urum gyltendum

By 1400 we had Middle English... the first line goes like this:

Oure fadir �at art in heuenes halwid be �i name;
�i reume or kyngdom come to be. Be �i wille don in her�e as it is dounin heuene.
yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred.
And foryeue to us oure dettis �at is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris �at is to men �at han synned in us.
And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.

By 1600, after the printing press had been around, the Lord's Prayer looks like this:

Our Father which art in heauen, hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdome come. Thy will be done euen in earth, as it is in heauen.
Giue vs this day our daily bread.
And forgiue vs our debts, as we also forgiue our debters.
And lead vs not into tentation, but deliuer vs from euill: for thine is the kingdome, and the power, and the glory for euer

And retranslated into modern English (2004)you have:
Our Father in Heaven,
let your holy name be known,
let your kingdom come,
and your will be done,
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today the bread that we need,
and forgive us our wrongs,
as we forgive those
who have done wrong to us.
Do not lead us into trial,
but save us from evil
(you might not like this version, but it's a better translation of the words of the original. Some words in early Modern English (King James' Bible) don't mean the same to us as they did to the people in 1600.)


Folks curious about the Bible might enjoy this page with many different versions of the Lord's Prayer on it (how the meaning has changed!):
www.christusrex.org...



[edit on 2-9-2004 by Byrd]

Byrd, you mentioned something about God being afraid of iron and technology. Would this be a metaphor of some kind? If not would you believe it suggests god is some sort of ET. I'm not a nut or a relegious person but if god is afraid of us advancing would that not question his omnipotence? Wouldn't that suggest that he (or his entire race) maybe started out like us? with mud and clay and finally advanced to the later stages?

I remember when I was a littler girl I ask my father why it is so many people speak different languages in the world, and he told me the story of the Towel of Babel, I asked him why the men wanted to build a tower and he say because they wanted to get to heaven so in my child mentality it seems that you do not approach god but wait until you be approached by him or be punish with different tongues.

Funny how the bible will supply a parent with an array of answers to an inquisitive child.

I never even had come out with the idea that the tower was about technology but Jamuhn now that you bring it well heck yeah it could true. But again bible stories are hard to swallow by me.

Technology is beneficial. 100 years ago, most of the people worldwide were really poor (as to have no clothes or house!) and they died really early. With technology's help, the living standard has been raised to unprecedented levels in man's history.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Could the story of the tower of babel be an allegory to our modern use of technology?

I mean, the more we discover in science and technology, the more dangerous this world becomes on the grand scale of things. Could the story be advocating a more simple way of life? Even if you except that evil/bad/whatever will be in the world, wouldn't the simple life allow for an assurance of survival for humanity?

Honestly, what is the point of having so much technology? Do the benefits of having it outweight the cons? I don't think they do...

This sounds like something the Unabomber would say about technology. Technology helps mankind in so many ways just think about how many people would die from things that we can treat or cure today. Every person with diabetes would die if we didnt have the technology to produce insulin. Thats just one example but Technology is our friend not our enemy.

depends on what that technology is used for. medical technology is becoming advanced and so beneficial to so many. technological advances in housing(anything to make stuff more comfortable is ok by me!). but i can see where some of the weapons tech could lead to our "downfall." just throwing out some ideas.

Originally posted by psychosgirl
depends on what that technology is used for. medical technology is becoming advanced and so beneficial to so many. technological advances in housing(anything to make stuff more comfortable is ok by me!). but i can see where some of the weapons tech could lead to our "downfall." just throwing out some ideas.

Good point about the weapons but those same weapons that might be our ''downfall'' might be you ''Salvation'' also. If we found a asteroid on a collision course with earth a nuclear weapon (what some consider the most evil weapon) would be our only real hope to stop such a event.

Also you have to remember how much tech we use every day that had its roots in military weapons. We wouldnt even have any space program if it wasnt for the development of the weapon the v-2 rocket.

ah, but will we continue to use weapons for that purpose? yet to be seen. seems to me someone can always find an excuse to use weapons tech(i'm not saying it's bad) against a nation on the earth......but that's a whole other bag of beans.

Originally posted by psychosgirl
ah, but will we continue to use weapons for that purpose? yet to be seen. seems to me someone can always find an excuse to use weapons tech(i'm not saying it's bad) against a nation on the earth......but that's a whole other bag of beans.

True, another good point. I think no weapon is inherently Good or Bad they are just tools it really comes down to the person using it. They can be used to oppress or liberate, for attack or defense.

I came across these sites the other day. They looked interesting and smells like another dirty comspiracy

www.thekeffs.freeserve.co.uk...
www.write-on.co.uk...
www.trinity3...##.###/eutower/tower1a.html

quote: Originally posted by Jamuhn
Could the story of the tower of babel be an allegory to our modern use of technology?

I mean, the more we discover in science and technology, the more dangerous this world becomes on the grand scale of things. Could the story be advocating a more simple way of life? Even if you except that evil/bad/whatever will be in the world, wouldn't the simple life allow for an assurance of survival for humanity?

Honestly, what is the point of having so much technology? Do the benefits of having it outweight the cons? I don't think they do... "




This is being debated on what can arguably be defined as the most liberating, freedom creating technology created by humanity, namely the Internet.

doesnt the Irony hit anyone else?



Technology is no different than Fire. it is inert, has no evil or good imparted to it, until it is put to Use. I am sure the first child to accidentally die in the cave fire caused a pretty good debate if having Fire was worth the death.

Technology is not the issue, the issue is Humanity.

On the same token, we liberate ourselves. We don't need technology to liberate us, nor the internet. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to preach the Bible here, it's just I've thought about external to the Bible, and am wondering about the connection of the idea with the Bible.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by Jamuhn]

~Jamuhn
Honestly, what is the point of having so much technology? Do the benefits of having it outweight the cons? I don't think they do...

I understand what your trying to say.... But, I think thats ingnorant to the max.

'In the grand scale of things" as you say, Technology will/is helping us to extend the life of humanity to/in ways we can only think of right now... Now you might say all we need is "faith" and we will be saved, But I say lets have a back-up plan too.

No you don't because that is not what I'd say. And I don't appreciate the comment about it being ignorant to the max. I find ignorance in trying to make assumption about people you don't know.

I could start ranting about the many reasons I give for a simpler life devoid of any religious connotation, but I feel it would be falling on deaf ears at this point.

Obviously a lot of people feel dependent it on it, but I'm not. I'd rather live a life out in the country being a farmer than what I do now.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by Jamuhn]

We serve 2 masters

The master of Love - God
The master of knowledge/insight - Satan

We cannot serve 2 masters....

I believe that we are re-living the Tower of Babel all over again. The tower was built by man to praise man with no regards to praising God. When that happened, God confused us by going from one language to many different ones so that very few people could understand each other. It eventually forced us to spread out all over the world to seek people whom we could understand.

In today's time, we have seen so many advancements in technology and the increase in our standard of living. We are no longer saving money (like our parents), but living off of credit. There are so many scriptures in the bible that talk about the responsibility of taking care of your own finances.

In the end, we are re-living the Tower of Babel all over again not just in the U.S, but all over the world. In the U.S., most people have forgotten about God as the reason for their existence and are patting themselves on the back for all the wonderful things they have acquired in life.

There are many people from other countries constructing large buildings and buying up U.S. stocks. They are becoming a big player in making decisions in what should happen to this country going forward. The same thing is happening ot other countries all over the world.

I really believe this is God's plan from thousands of years ago. It is the same plan - it just looks a little different.

Rick Clark