Criticism/Scepticism in regards to E-Cat ("Rossy Coldfusion")

I am getting more skeptical with the minute.

*) Why does this device need hours to "charge" (heat up)?
*) Where is CLEAR (!) data about measured power IN and measured power out?
*) Where are the masses of raving, independent scientists which have FREE access to this device? (To correct possible problems in measuring etc...location of temp sensors and so forth..)
*) Why is the magical device always turned off prematurely instead of letting it run for MANY hours?

You know, here is the deal:

a) Put a pot with water on the stove and start "heating" the pot for 30mins until the water boils.
b) TURN OFF THE STOVE.
c) Make a claim about how magically there is hot water for an hour..EVEN AFTER THE STOVE IS TURNED OFF. It's *Magic*!!

Do you see where i am going?

In a nutshell, i gotten very skeptical and i think this is what this is about....with the difference that the e-cat device is more complex (add factors like pressure etc.) - it is an advanced (for a non technical person not easily to understand) way of storing and then releasing energy.

I actually think Rossi does even fool HIMSELF...and lets not mention press people who have NO technical background whatsoever...who only repeat what they "see" or what they hear in the Rossi Q&A.

VERY skeptical.

Show this e-cat device, power it up for 3 hours or so...and then show everyone how it produces energy for a day or longer....eliminate ALL DOUBTS...then i believe it! But no test which requires "4 hours of heating up"...and then so called "sustained power output" for a few hours respective turn off the device "prematurely"

could use some source, im not seeing any of the usual indicators that this is cold fusion related (deuterium, paladium metal, spontaneous absorbsion of atoms at less than extreme temp.)

ed: it is possible to keep water hot for a while after boiling, there may be thermal properties involved such as in a thermos flask.


ed: I found some source, turns out there is someone independantly testing the machine in the US, so I guess this is already bought, payed, and about to disappear like the other energy devices out there that arn't fossil fuel based.

Originally posted by flexy123
*) Why is the magical device always turned off prematurely instead of letting it run for MANY hours?

That's the bottom line for why I've been skeptical about his tests. There are lots of ways he could make it convincing, but he doesn't do it. Clear measurements of inputs and outputs have also been lacking in every single test to date.

I actually think Rossi does even fool HIMSELF...and lets not mention press people who have NO technical background whatsoever...who only repeat what they "see" or what they hear in the Rossi Q&A.

It's entirely possible he's fooling himself, and he wouldn't be the first person to do so. that would explain why the hoax angle makes no sense with his approach, if he doesn't even know it's a hoax.

If I see a huge power plant go into operation and keep running, that might convince me. But I'm unconvinced.

Let's face it. The claim is extraordinary. The evidence is not.

Yes im with you there!

They just uploaded a video by the way (him just talking), claiming "yes it is a breakthrough".

You know what's funny? He is saying "It's a break-through"....while at the same time mentioning for some time already that the device is already in service in some places, including the claim it's already powering a plant (if not a number of plants). He mentioned a number on some blog a while ago, it was either 60 or 90ish devices he CLAIMED already in service and working.

(Needless to say he is unable to say where those devices are located, and it is also important to mention that a device which ALLEGEDLY is already powering a plant already somewhere would be more proof than this recent test which was stopped after 3 hours)

I am not an engineer, but i dont think a test suite which is CONVINCING, eg. producing power for a day or so should not be impossible to make...but "magically" there is always a reason that the device needs to be turned off after a short time.

see i thought for scientific method you had to outline what you think was going to happen, then reacreate the event many times to prove the concept.

it seems like they have never fully shown full potnetial of the device but shown it doing enough to look like it could work if left to its own devices, its strange as the scientific community is usually alot less acceptant of such a claim/device/methodology.

Why is it that after all this hype, the actual testing was performed by Rossi himself and not independent experts? So basically today's tests shed absolutely no more light on the topic whatsoever. Sure, it might be legit, but it's got that bad smell typical of a scam/hoax/delusion. I'd love to be proven wrong but this pattern is one that has been seen before on a number of occasions.

reply to post by john_bmth

There was an expert there to measure radiation. He didn't measure anything but background.

I didn't see where they had an expert on generator efficiency, which would have been nice since that was the purpose of the test, I thought?

Hmm... there's always a convenient piece of the puzzle missing. Why is nothing ever clear cut with these sort of things?

reply to post by john_bmth

Because they're trying to sell you snake oil that cures every disease known to man.

Wake up.

Pessimistic right to the bitter end, I see. Why am I not surprised?

Welcome to the Rossi show:

I wrote to Mats Lewan: It is disappointing that you were not allowed to make measurements and that we do not know if these engineers were truly from another company. They might be Rossi's employees. However, you may have been able to make first-principle observations that confirm the claim even without instruments. You were able to do that during the Oct. 6 test. It depends on how much you could see, and how long you had. I have heard you had only a few minutes . . . If you can confirm that the input power was off, and that a great deal of heat was being blow out by those large fans at the radiators, I expect that would be proof of anomalous heat. Did you get a chance to see a power meter showing no input? Was the power line unplugged? (I doubt that it was.) Were you able to feel a blast of hot air from the fans? . . . His response: "I’m sorry, I couldn’t confirm any of this. I wanted to, but I didn’t manage."

source: www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg53812.html

Well, at least it is entertaining.

reply to post by cupocoffee


As opposed to what, blind optimism in the face of zero evidence? Yet again, all this drama and no evidence. I suppose people are going to say it's being "repressed" or "big oil sabotaged the experiment" or whatever excuses they need to make to gloss over yet another failed/fraudulent claim.

reply to post by john_bmth


Rossi doesn't intend to disclose the exact internal workings of the reactor anyway, so what difference does it make?

They don't care about anything you guys are writing in here; all we can do is watch what happens and enjoy the show...

reply to post by cupocoffee


Believe you me, it's a great show to watch, but probably not for the same reasons as you. We are witnessing yet another "promise the world" claim fail to deliver, all under the watchful eye if the media. Shall we start taking bets as to how long he's going to draw this out for without offering any objective evidence? Or maybe how long before he skips the country?

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by john_bmth

 

Rossi doesn't intend to disclose the exact internal workings of the reactor anyway, so what difference does it make?

They don't care about anything you guys are writing in here; all we can do is watch what happens and enjoy the show...

They don't care about whether the output was greater than the input? I believe that is the only thing most people here care about. Prove that the output exceeds input, he has failed to do so. Don't you think if he could prove it he would? If he proved that today, he would be a billionaire tomorrow, guaranteed.

I believe the E-cat is nothing more then a big battery.

You charge it up by inputting power to create heat and the output is from the heat being turned back into energy.

The only way i would believe its really generating its own energy is to run through the start-up procedure to start the E-Cat into full operation and then disconnect the start up generator and run the E-Cat at full operating output for 24 hours with the output going into a load at full rated voltage and amperage.

This is the standard testing procedure for any power plant from small generators to large power plants.

Done right this would catch any scam and likely why it will never be done.

Originally posted by ANNED
I believe the E-cat is nothing more then a big battery.

You charge it up by inputting power to create heat and the output is from the heat being turned back into energy.

The only way i would believe its really generating its own energy is to run through the start-up procedure to start the E-Cat into full operation and then disconnect the start up generator and run the E-Cat at full operating output for 24 hours with the output going into a load at full rated voltage and amperage.

This is the standard testing procedure for any power plant from small generators to large power plants.

Done right this would catch any scam and likely why it will never be done.

24hrs?!?
Try 6 months, thats the statement...
WITH NO ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT ATTACHED...!!!!
And continous tests and measurments done every 2nd hour or so.

By, TOTALY INDEPENDENT personel...With NO conections
to Rossi whatsoever!!!