Rabbi marries Gay men to Lesbian women without attempting to change sexual orientation!

An Israeli rabbi, Areleh Harel, has paired and married several religious gay men to lesbians in order to procreate, and form families in religious communities.

Although they live closeted in religious communities, the gay and lesbian marriage partners are open about their sexuality to each other.

The aim was to allow orthodox Jewish gays and lesbians to have kids and live closer to religious law.
While even the rabbi admits such marriages are imperfect, he claims that all marriages are imperfect at some point, and the results so far have been good, with an expanding interest in his services.

The marriages are supported by various counseling services, and it seems to tolerate occasional relapses and clandestine affairs for a greater good.
www.haaretz.com...

The rabbi's methods have been criticized both from gay organizations (who would rather see gay marriages equally legal and recognized) and some religious critics (who would probably only favor pseudo-psychological "sexual orientation change").

I think for religious gay and lesbian people it's actually a great compromise.
The rabbi admits it's not for everyone, but for some people it is an answer to fulfill certain religious beliefs and have children and grandchildren.

Some say such marriages will be loveless and fake.
However, considering many cultures that have life-long arranged marriages, I don't necessarily think so.
I don't think the rabbi gives a license to either partner to have a constant same-sex orgy, but I think in SA STDs would be a concern (although it appears that dishonest relationships are more dangerous than honest relationships).

For more and a video clip:
www.time.com...

reply to post by halfoldman


LOL!!! Funnier than all hell.

reply to post by halfoldman


This is new information...to me. I really don't know what to think about it at the moment. I guess it is a solution...in the Jewish community for their gay people to have children.....I am thinking....won't the children eventually be confused?

It seems that the couples do commit to be faithful, but lapses aren't the end of the world.
It also seems that when gender roles are very formalized family life seems very possible, even without more recent Western notions of constant romantic love:

Gay-lesbian marriages have long been practiced among the ultra-Orthodox, but the current initiative is different in that it stems not from an effort to sweep the issue under the carpet, but from a growing acknowledgment of homosexuality, prompted in part by four organizations for religious homosexuals: Havruta, Bat Kol, Hod and Kamocha.

Harel explained that while secular homosexuals see gay marriage as the solution, religious homosexuals are often unwilling to violate the halakhic prohibition on homosexual sex, and are thus seeking other solutions.

"Most of the couples agree not to have relationships with members of their own sex, but if there are 'lapses' once every few years, they don't see this as a betrayal," he said. "Generally, it's between them and their Creator."

He said each couple decides for itself how its marriage should work, and he is not involved in that decision. Rather, he deals mainly with halakhic issues like artificial insemination.

www.haaretz.com...

This is the perfect definition of a Gay Marriage.

Equal rights for all...special rights for none.

Big deal, another religious figure bending the sacred rules he's solemnly sworn to

reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics

Not sure how your sentence finishes, but I'm sure the rabbi is not violating any law according to his interpretation.
At least not any laws that are more special than other laws that people break every day.

In fact, why try go through this rigmarole of orientation change?
If procreation within a mother-father family is the highest law, then why not get busy?
Some people have bigger priorities than saying they will never stray, or never sin again.
Some minority groups don't have time for all that.
I think some of these marriages will have a better chance of happiness then some marriages between heartbroken heterosexuals.

If this was a route I could have taken, without living a lie to my partner or direct family, I think there were stages in my life where I would have taken it.

This article makes the focus somewhat more controversial.
While previously it appeared that the marriages were a means of having children in a religious setting, here it claims it is to fulfill the religious law against homosexual sex.
It's all a bit confusing. This is a take from the Advocate, a gay publication.

Rabbis from the religious Zionist community have expanded their effort to marry gay men and lesbians who live together in order not to violate their faith’s prohibition against homosexual sex.

According to Haaretz, Rabbi Areleh Harel of the West Bank settlement of Shilo has performed 11 of the marriages thus far, and he keeps a list of more than 50 gay men and lesbians seeking such a marriage. He and his colleagues have decided to institutionalize the venture and work with a well-known religious matchmaking organization.

www.advocate.com...

This reminds me of a couple I worked with at a hotel in Penang, a guy and girl who were both cross dressers.
I actually got to speak candidly to the girl (actual physical girl) about it and it was quite an interesting talk.

She/he said that it was almost impossible to be openly gay within a chinese family as you would be disowned and while she/he wanted to be with a woman (a real woman) she/he also wanted children.
Being with the guy/girl it enabled her to be the man in the relationship, let her take a BF home to her family and also means she could have kids.

I actually asked if the male dangly bits on her GF bothered her and she laughed and said only a bit, in every other way her GF was a girl and not too bad looking either (the guy when dressed as a woman I mean, very slender, long hair, great rack. The girl who was the guy was ugly as sin)

Im all for this sort of thing, good luck to all those people but as someone else pointed out I do hope their children turn out OK.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

Great contribution, because in a lot of cultures this is the case.
Society wants children and grandchildren, and outside of that people could have some leeway on their personal proclivities.

In a sense it sounds like going back in time and to the closet to the Western gay movement, but it's also very different because of the honesty in the relationship, and perhaps even a shared struggle.

I don't think people can openly cross-dress in the rabbi's community, but a lot of gay people aren't interested in that, and that's more a celebration of gay culture, or goes into other gender issues.

I don't think the children will be harmed, at least not any more than in a heterosexual relationship with secrets.
I don't think they will be exposed to any of any it.

I think in some world-views it is more important to start simply doing things.
Just like in the arranged marriages that some of our cultures practice here (and they were once the norm everywhere).
A few don't work, but many others last for a life time.

So in some religions it is more important first not to question, and then suddenly you find yourself more religious.
What much Western religion preaches currently is that you must somehow be perfect, and only then are you good enough to practise religion.

However it should never force people into anything, or repeat the historic dishonesty of the closet within a marriage that is forced.