""Abomination of Desolation"""(DAN 9:27 )

In order to understand the true meaning of this ""Abomination of Desolation" ,

This defilement of the sanctity of the Christian's churches and faith is mystically foretold in the Sacred Scriptures in the descriptions of the setting up of the ""abomination of desolation""in the holy place:1)""And in the midst of the week(after the three and a half years of the second period,at the begginning of the third period of Antichrist's activity,which will last for another three and a half years)
My sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away: and on ("the wings of - in the Hebrew text)
the temple shall be the abomination of desolation"" (Dan 9:27). 2)""And seeds shall spring up out of him, and they shall profane the sanctuary of strength, and they shall remove the perpetual sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation""(Dan11:31). 3)""aND FROM THE TIME OF THE REMOVAL OF THE PERPETUAL SACRIFICE, WHEN THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION SHALL BE SET UP,THERE SHALL BE A THOUSAND,TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY DAYS""(Dan12:11) (sorry about my typing... too much to write here...........
(read more from Antichrist by Archpriest BorisMolchanoff)

The meaning of the words ""On the wings"" found in the Hebrew text of the description of the ''"abomination of desolation''''
is not entirely clear (Dan 9:27).
The translation of this passage done with an exegesis(translation) by Gezenius,the renowned compiler of the Hebrew grammer and Hebrew-German lexicon,
is a clever attempt at interpretation.
He translates Daniel's phrase in the following manner:

""And on the wings of abomination is the destroyer"".
He explains his translation thus:""The enemy of the church,
ie.
Antichrist, is presented here as raised upon the wings of an abominable idol,just as the Lord God is described as borne aloft upon the cherubim"".
It is quite possible that the Antichrist will be transported from place to place on a winged idol, as upon a chariot or a throne....(not the pope )But it would not be incredible either, should Antichrist fly upon the wings of an abominable idol(an aeroplane or helicopter) specialy constructed for him in the form of a winged image.The latter suggestion, although not in reference to this passage in particular,was articulated many centuries before Gezenius by St. Ephraim the Syrian (cf . St. Ephraim's Discource on the Lords coming.pt 111, p. 25 born AD 306)



[Edited on 18-4-2003 by helen670]

Don't you realize much of the "prophetic" parts of the bible, were written to protect the church.

Who is going to go against the church, if they believe that when people go against the church, it hails the end of the world?

NO ONE!

The Church was a Slavemaster from 200AD - 1500AD, so why is it you follow it's "prophecies" as if they have any meaning.

All they were was to keep the ignorant masses in line.

not true..............


what has ""prophecy"" have to do with ""religion"" and controling the people???

i know that when something is given to you as a warning, and you know of it, you deal with it according .........

""Christianity"" in itself has no Law.....it has no holding power over people ,no matter how much you or anyone else thinks that it may have......
You don't need to be a "slave" to the church.......it's not how God works.....
Your conscience tells you what is right and what is wrong.....and for those that have no conscience,i beleive that they are entirely lost within themselves thinking that they have been ""perfected"" and are in no need of help........

Prophecy can only be true if it is fullfilled 100%........
There is no harm in reading ..........

Let's say that there is no truth in Prophecy about the end of the world.........did reading about it make you a different person.......why??? if you are what you are then there was no harm done.....

If on the other hand the prophecy is true and does happen.........it will offer you consolation in the times of troubles ahead.......

Israel ,will come into full view .........

You think that our problems have ceased?
Watch the news for future talks on peace and world issues relating to the """"world Peace"""""


Remember, there is no ""peace treaty"" in Israel .......
iT WILL BE ON ALL THE NEWS CHANNELS.........
One World Order will be formed and the ........U.N will have a say in it..............

No, I think that with Bush's very stupid rush to war and the lack of WMD that he used as his excuse, we'll see a lot of people becoming enemies of the US. I think that this mess of Shrub's will be decades in mending.

A diplomat could have avoided it. A good diplomat would have not cheesed off the entire world BEFORE going into a war.

We will suffer the consequences of our leader's ineptitude for a long time.

...and I don't know why the writer thought "abomination of desonation" was so dreadfully hard to understand. It's pretty clear.

The whole chapter talks about battles against a Persian king who cheeses off Greece. The Persian king defeats four other kings. A rival king arises but has a wife that he doesn't get along with, falls, and then a tax collector is king for a short period and dies of natural causes.

A temporary regent shows up, who makes some questionable treaties. He unites a lot of little tribes and goes to war against his southern neighbor. After going home with spoils, he comes back again and...

At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

11:30
For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

11:32
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits"

... he desecrates the temple and the priests and people abandon it (places the abomination that maketh desolate.)

It's not hard to understand if you read the whole book. What I find hard to understand is that these "wise men" will take sentences from here and there and put them together for some other purposes.

Using that tactic, we can CLEARLY see that Shakespeare prophesized the current Iraq conflict and the overthrow of Saddam:

Macbeth 1:1
When shall we three meet again In thunder, lightning, or in rain?

When the hurlyburly's done, When the battle's lost and won.

Macbeth 1:2
He can report, As seemeth by his plight, of the revolt The newest state.

Disdaining fortune, with his brandish'd steel, Which smoked with bloody execution, Like valour's minion carved out his passage Till he faced the slave; Which ne'er shook hands, nor bade farewell to him, Till he unseam'd him from the nave to the chaps, And fix'd his head upon our battlements

We could probably pull prophecies out of the dictionary if we picked appropriate sentences instead of whole chapters or books.

[Edited on 10-4-2003 by Byrd]

Byrd.............. i dont pull the prophecies out of any books!

I dont claim to know any prophecies of my own!
I just write them down !


People have always been fascinated with prophecy and why not write down something that would make sense for all concerned!

Oh, I agree that prophecies are fascinating.

But prophecies can't be "significant sentences" grabbed from various places because then we could find prophecies in Webster's Dictionary.

The well-known Prophecies of Fatima are what I'd consider valid prophecies -- it's coherent, it consists of a bunch of sentences, and they all talk about the same thing.

But the "prophecies" that Christians often point to are single sentences taken out of context. Let me show you an example from a Christian website:

Prophecy: Israel would be voted into existence by the nations of the world (compare Ezekiel 38:8).

Fulfillment: On May 16, 1949, Israel was accepted as a member nation of the United Nations.

Prophecy: Israel would regain her land through warfare (compare Ezekiel 38:8).

Fulfillment: Four major wars have been fought in the Middle East since 1948. Israel�s highly trained and well-equipped armed forces have successfully defended her territory each time, even against overwhelming odds. The Middle East remains the most volatile and unpredictable region on the globe.

Right... so what does Ezekiel 38:8 say?

After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Sounds great, eh?

here's what Ezekiel Chapter 38 says:

1-3 Starts out with God telling Ezekiel "set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:"

4-14, continues talking about Gog and how he will build himself up into a powerful king and kingdom. Notice that the "prophetic" verse falls in the middle of this chapter and is about GOG and not Israel?

4 - end of chapter, Then God continues with his tirade about using Gog to attack Israel to punish them.

And ends up with

For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD

... he's punishing Israel.

And there's no justification in using that verse as prophecy for anything.

ok, you want a bunch of sentances!!!


all relating in the near future!!!
(ok, bear with me coz im translating from the greek )
These prophecies are from 3rd century up to 1500 A.D....
Some relate from early 1900

trouble in the region of Turkey.....Constantinople(modern day Istanbul)
Defeat by Russia..........for 5 or 6 months
Bloodshed is immense ....so that 3 yr old calfs will drown.......
Turkey Will be divided into 3
A 1/3 become Babtized,
1/3 die
1/3 go to Mecca ?(could be go to the East ) (not sure coz the word used is in ancient greek)
two countries go against Russia .....
Theres alot of Air Strikes.....weapons used (Bombs ???) like there has never been majour fire works!!!(scary ones, not new yrs special!!!

:puzthis is alot harder then i thought, ill write more but now im writing what i can undertand! )

From the North(still in Constantinople) european countries(who will be divided into 4 )will bring much destruction and weapons?
Cypress, Greece will be traumetized
18 countries will follow,from the sea to the land.
The sea will be full of blood... many of the countries will stop mid way to Constantinople because they will hear that the war has finished.....
Orthodoxy will be heard all over
Fall of Papism........A leader for all of all of europe(not nessasarily a true leader??? )

6 countries from the West against Russia(3 days and nights bloodshed)and majour destruction to many countries.
They (6 countries )will be defeated by Russian..

They will try to solve the problem with a penny(not with a penny money??? )but the wont be able, 99 times with war, once with money?
Turkey is defeated,
Russia heads toward Syria and Palestine where it would lead to Armageddon


Ihave more but i have to get proper translations........


[Edited on 14-4-2003 by helen670]

And what sources do you have for those prophecies, Helen? Is that all one prophecy, if so, whose is it and where does it come from?

(and no, I didn't mean a "whole bunch of one-line prophecies from various sources.")

trouble in the region of Turkey.....Constantinople(modern day Istanbul)

Forgive me, but that's not much of a prophecy. There has been trouble in that area (almost constantly) for well over 3,000 years.

Defeat by Russia..........for 5 or 6 months

Of Turkey? If you'll notice, the new Russia hasn't been able to conquer anything, including their own breakaway republics.

Bloodshed is immense ....so that 3 yr old calfs will drown.......

Minor quibble here, but a 3 year old calf is actually a fully grown cow. And I'm not sure there's that much blood available even if you hauled the entire human race up to a valley and drained them of blood one by one.

Turkey Will be divided into 3
A 1/3 become Babtized,
1/3 die
1/3 go to Mecca ?(could be go to the East ) (not sure coz the word used is in ancient greek)
two countries go against Russia .....
Theres alot of Air Strikes.....weapons used (Bombs ???) like there has never been majour fire works!!!(scary ones, not new yrs special!!!

So where did this come from? It doesn't sound very reliable or very possible.

The prophecies are from a book on prophecies put together by various ........the interpretations are from a greek source and so it's my fault that they are scrambled.!!!They are not specifically in order .....


All speak of a war(possibly World War 3)
involving
Turkey and Russia......
Russia.......freeing Constantinople(Istanbul)and once again becoming Byzantine Empire........orthodox Christianity involving Europe.......
The Roman Catholic Church falls.......papism is no longer....
Austria..........???CANT MAKE OUT
Yugoslavia........???



ok, here are some links in english.......

www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk...

www.sisqtel.net...

sorry some of the links says check my intenett settings......ill try later.....



these names are in greek, so i"m interpretiing them in english.......Prophecies all from these people......

St Kosmas......15th century......
St Eiphreim the syrian........3rd century........
St Hyppolitus......
st Avva moses the Ethiopian.......
St tarasiou.....7th century....
St Methodiou ???.........4th century.......
St Andrew (Salou)........
St Kalinikou of Romania........1787-1868)
Osios neilos the myrbearer on the antichrist.......
St John of Damascus.....3rd.or 4th century....
Irenaueus of Lyons........


[Edited on 14-4-2003 by helen670]

[Edited on 15-4-2003 by helen670]

one prophecy to come out....must have missed this one!!!


www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk...

On the wings of the Temple. Where did you find this? I don't read Hebrew well, but my interlinear says nothing about a temple here, but an abomination. "On the wings of abomination..." We know that inside the Holy of Holies, Solomon made two great, winged Cherubs. There were also winged Cherubs on the Ark of Covenant. This could be a prophecy of the Antichrist taking control over the Ark of Covenant within the Holy of Holies, but I guess that would be to stretch the rubberband a little too far...

But if we're talking about a building here, buildings can have wings. And as far as I know the Hebrew word for wing used here, can also be used discribing building extremeties. We all know terms like the west wing, right? And we are talking about an idol of some sort. Can it be that the Temple they are about to build in Jerusalem (?) will have some sort of idol on each wing?

We can also be speeking of a timebraking referance (there are many of them in the Bible) to 4th Ezra who has a vision of the fourth beast of Daniel in the shape of a hydra-headed, multi-winged eagle. There can be little doubt that the fourth beast of Daniel is anything but the Roman Empire, and it was the Romans who killed our Annointed King Jesus, sacked the Temple, elevated the Roman throne into divinity and turned humble Christian Judaism into something of a whorish Ba'al cult and and and Argh!

Blessings,
mikrom

To Byrd:
Most of Daniel 11 is already fulfilled, and is a detailed step-by-step survey of the major war movemements of Israel's neighbours in centuries two and three BC from Alexander the Great whose empire was devided among his generals, not his sons, to Antiokos IV Epifanes (please foregive me if the spelling isn't right in English) who (if I'm not mistaken) was the same man who erected the hethen altair at the Temple Height in 167 BC uppon which he sacrificed an unclean animal, some even say a pig, and thereby caused the daily sacrifice to be canceled for a longer period of time.

We know from the Book of Revelation (Rev) that the two witnesses will be killed by a beast that emerges out of the bottomless pit. The Koran says straight out that Dajjal or Antichrist starts his mission in Syria and will be riding on a white donkey. Will this beast of Rev be a Syrian king with a bloodline back to Antiokos IV Epifanes? The head that is injured but is brought back to life? It sure is confusing trying to sort out these prophecies, but many small streams make big rivers in the end, and personally I feel that this starts to look like something. But I guess I'll end up twise as confused in the end

Blessings,
mikrom

PS: Jesus wasn't killed on Friday (today), but on Wednesday (two days ago in AD 30) just before the Passover lamb sacrifice at sundown. Read the Gospel of John, the only account that proves to be accurate as to the whereabouts of Jesus those last days. I'll post a complete article on this later...

Originally posted by mikromarius
On the wings of the Temple. Where did you find this? I don't read Hebrew well, but my interlinear says nothing about a temple here, but an abomination. "On the wings of abomination..." We know that inside the Holy of Holies, Solomon made two great, winged Cherubs. There were also winged Cherubs on the Ark of Covenant. This could be a prophecy of the Antichrist taking control over the Ark of Covenant within the Holy of Holies, but I guess that would be to stretch the rubberband a little too far...

But if we're talking about a building here, buildings can have wings. And as far as I know the Hebrew word for wing used here, can also be used discribing building extremeties. We all know terms like the west wing, right? And we are talking about an idol of some sort. Can it be that the Temple they are about to build in Jerusalem (?) will have some sort of idol on each wing?

We can also be speeking of a time braking referance (there are many of them in the Bible) to 4th Ezra who has a vision of the fourth beast of Daniel in the shape of a hydra-headed, multi-winged eagle. There can be little doubt that the fourth beast of Daniel is anything but the Roman Empire, and it was the Romans who killed our Annointed King Jesus, sacked the Temple, elevated the Roman throne into divinity and turned humble Christian Judaism into something of a whorish Ba'al cult and and and Argh!

Blessings,
mikrom

Hi.....,,,
where abouts did i write..''on the wings of the temple?
i re read my thread?
Hmmmmmm

Sorry, my fault.....
your guessing here, that it might the be ""temple''???
Like the ''pope mobile"""???
......



[Edited on 18-4-2003 by helen670]

The breaking of the covenant will be followed by a monstrous sacrilege--Antichrist will force the Jews to stop worshipping God with '''sacrifice and offering,'' and will at the same time proclaim himself god!
''In the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering, and on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolute,even until the consummation''(Daniel 9 : 27 )
This is the abomination which Jesus warned of-----a man posing as divinity in the ''holy place''
of the Lords House:'' 'Therefore when you see the '''abomination of desolation'', spoken of by Daniel the prophet,standing in the holy place'(whoever reads ,let him understand)'''(Matthew 24:15 )
The desolation of the temple will thus mark the midpoint of Antichrist's seven -year reign.

''''And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days [three and half years plus thirty days]'''
The second half week is to be the most difficult time that humanity has ever experinced.

All possible negativity and godlessness will deluge the earth, destroying people spiritually and physically.
Our Lord spoke of the unmitigrated horror of this period when He said,
''''For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be'''[Matthew 24:21]
That Christians will be under attack for the three and half years of the Great Tribulation is indicated by the follwing passage:'''But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles.
And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty --two months'''(Revelation 11:2 )

''Ultimate things'' Dennis E. Englemann....


Yep, the prophecies are all ''end time''' (although Daniel's prophecy did fullfill the peoples of that time as well )
I think that i wrote this '''Antichrist raised around Iraq,Syria???(I have to check my threads???)



[Edited on 18-4-2003 by helen670]

i'm re posting here.......Iraqi war end of times......

Iraqi war end times""???

Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem
Antichrist born ,
a place from which the root of all evil (Tim.6:10)
namely the city of Babylon.
Antichrist will be born in that city ,which was once a celebrated and glorious pagan center and the capital of the Persian Empire.

It say's that he will be brought up and protected in the cities of Bethsaida and Chorazain,the cities that ,
""the Lord reproaches in the Gospel when He says''''Woe to you ,Bethsaida,woe to you ,Chorazin"""!(Matt.11.21)

(Bethsaida and Chorazin is close to the sea of Galilea)

taken from ""Ultimate things"" Dennis E.Engleman

Helen wrote:
My sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away: and on ("the wings of - in the Hebrew text)
the temple shall be the abomination of desolation"" (Dan 9:27)
-----
As you see you did write something that could be understood as on the wings of the temple... I just wondered where you had it from. I can't get the text to read that way from my sources.

-----
You wrote:
Sorry, my fault.....
your guessing here, that it might the be ""temple''???
Like the ''pope mobile"""???

-.-----

No I just picked up your thread and tried o figure out what to make of it...

Blessings,
mikrom

Originally posted by helen670
i'm re posting here.......Iraqi war end of times......

Iraqi war end times""???

Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem
Antichrist born ,
a place from which the root of all evil (Tim.6:10)
namely the city of Babylon.
Antichrist will be born in that city ,which was once a celebrated and glorious pagan center and the capital of the Persian Empire.

My comment:
Why should he be born in Babylon? I can see nothing in scripture that indicates this. I feel you're following a kind of logic that also says that Satan is king of Hell, which he is not. The Antichrist may verywell be a Jew born in Bethlehem. He is as we know a false Messiah, and Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem. How would he be able to convince the Jews that he is the Messiah if he isn't born in Bethlehem?

I'm actually quite fond of Babylon. They invented beer for God's sake

Blessings;
mikrom

link below is early fathers on teachings on the Apocalypse.....

www.stgabrielokc.org...

St. Andrew of Caesarea (6th century) say's,


''will come from the darkest and most remote lands of the earth,those to which the Devil was banished.'''..

It says that he will be brought up and protected in the cities of Bethsaida and Chorazain, the cities that the Lord reproaches in the Gospel when he says,
'''Woe to you ,Bethsaida,woe to you ,Chorazin"""!(Matt.11.21)

Being brought up is not nessasirily where he could have been Born, also maybe he could lie about his ''birth place'''..........

Both the first and last books of the Bible, Genesis and Revelation, agree that the Antichrist shall emerge from this unfortunate Jewish tribe: ''''''Dan shall be a serpant by the way, a viper by the path'''''(Genesis 49:17 )

Among the tribes of Israel which the Book of Revelation declares are sealed by the angels for salvation, only the tribe of Dan is omitted (Revelation 7:4-8 )



[Edited on 19-4-2003 by helen670]