Libyan bombing alone will not budge Gaddafi, UK officials warn

Libyan bombing alone will not budge Gaddafi, UK officials warn

www.guardian.co.uk

Almost three months into the campaign of air strikes, Britain and its Nato allies no longer believe bombing alone will end the conflict in Libya, well-placed government officials have told the Guardian.

Instead, they are pinning their hopes on the defection of Muammar Gaddafi's closest aides, or the Libyan leader's agreement to flee the country.

(visit the link for the full news article)



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I believe that the Libyan operations are pretty much poorly planned. Man this thing going to spice up a notch. What do you think about this? I believe that Libyan operations NATO are stuck now. We can't just pull out of Libya because it's already too late because the work by NATO there means nothing. The only way to solved this is sending in coalition ground troops because the Libyan rebels are doing nothing to stop Gaddafi forces.

NATO has some good planning but now it look like it's poorly planned.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

It's another middle eastern folly, no plan of what to do, no plan of how to get out, no idea of what the goal is, no real idea who the Rebels are. A constant mission creep, that has gone from a no fly zone to a boots on the ground operation. this is going cost billions and again many innocents will lose their lives.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I agree, this is a poorly planned operation i mean i thought this war was going to be over then all the sudden they say air-power along is not going to win anything at akk. I mean any there any difference between the Suez Crsis and this? Last time i think the US president Eishehowever decided not to join on the British. French, and Israel attack on the suex Crisis and it only lasted for a week. I think by joining in, we made it worser.

BTW Libya is in North Africa, not the middle east. I',m pretty sure north Africa has lot of middle eastern people.

Wars rarely go according to plan, it is just one of the factors we have to expect when entering conflict.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Wars rarely go according to plan, it is just one of the factors we have to expect when entering conflict.

Yet, they should have realized long ago that Gadaffi is not the man who would eventually step down. He's way too megalomaniac to leave voluntarily. The best they could do is probably sending in a battle group to Tripoli, secure Gadaffi and leave again. Then the fun starts for our oil corporations; a new puppet regime will be installed and the oil can be stolen. In the end no one benefits, oil prices are not go down and the Libyan people have lost every leverage to protect their oil. On the other hand, I doubt the common people benefited much from the country's rich oil reserves under Gadaffi's rule.

reply to post by Mdv2


Maybe you should do some research & you will see before NATO, Gaddafi gave back alot of $ to the people via there oil supplies. I heard of a $20000 one time payment for young couples who get married for the first time & a similar amount to people starting there first business's & thats on top of the set amount that EVERY libyan citizen recieved yearly via there oil trade. Most of them would have been getting more benefits than we get in the UK or the US, there oil was nationalized, not a corporate entity.

At least he has got his tickets for next summer. This is so funny. What kind of idiots..........???


www.telegraph.co.uk... i-will-disrupt-Games.html


link doesn't seem to be working right.

its the story:

London 2012 Olympics: Libya gets hundreds of tickets amid fears Colonel Gaddafi will disrupt Games

if you go to telegraph homepage you will see it;

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
At least he has got his tickets for next summer. This is so funny. What kind of idiots..........???

www.telegraph.co.uk... i-will-disrupt-Games.html

Dude, your link is broken.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


Poorly planned? Are you kidding me?

Let see if what you are saying is true.

1. CIA financed and organize the rebels for as long as two decades:

"the Haftar force, created and financed by the CIA in Chad, vanished into thin air with the help of the CIA shortly after the Hissène Habré government was overthrown [in 1990 (IRIN 19 Apr. 2006)] by Idriss Déby" (see also The Washington Post 26 Mar. 1996). A report published by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) on the Web site of the Federation of American Scientists (FAS) notes that in 1996 the main opposition group in Libya was the Libyan National Salvation Front (LNSF), founded in 1981 and headed by Muhammad Al-Muqaryif (CRS 19 Dec. 1996). Its military wing is known as the Libyan National Army and is headed by Colonel Haftar (ibid.; see also The Washington Post 26 Mar. 1996).

.....

The Washington Post reported on 26 March 1996 that, according to some sources, Colonel Haftar was the leader of the Libyan National Army, a group of counter-revolutionaries supported and trained by the United States and operating in Libya.

www.unhcr.org...

Now, if decades of planning according to you is poor planning, then I don't know what good planning is.

The massive coordinated attack against the Libyan Revolutionary regime by almost all major media networks was a magnificent plan, and doesn't look poorly planned to me.

I mean just look at this video, it shows "Pro-Revolutionary Regime Demonstrators" being shot at, but the media including Al-Jazeera shows half of the video, and claims that pro-revolutionary forces were shooting at peaceful protesters.



This is nothing, let's not forget about the original mass media mis/dis-information, the coordinated attack was planned, if it wasn't, why would the media publish the claims of Mercenaries shooting innocent people excessively without any investigation, and then the media's silence when HR investigation found no Mercenaries.

The war's detailed planning is disgusting, just watch this video, a black Libyan soldier was captured and labeled a Mercenary, brutally beaten then hanged in public. An interview was conducted with the man's family, once again the media was silent, obviously means planned and coordinated propaganda attack against Libya. Also the video shows brutal torture and confessions under torture. These videos are widely accessible in the Internet, but the media is insanely silent.



I'm disgusted that someone would claim this terrorism was planned poorly. This was planned by a serial terrorist, planning for decades to cause such terror, destruction and horror.

These days I can't stop shaking my head at the world.

reply to post by confreak


No what i'm saying is that Libya was supposed to be a NATO air operations and now three months later, NATO officials complain that air-power, either from attack helicopters and warplanes, is not enough to ouster Gaddafi's forces. Even the Libyan rebels is not doing anything either. I don't care whether the point is or not you providing. This war is SUPPOSED to be a NATO air-operation.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


It is not about should be could be would be, this is about what it is. We are all aware of what the media feeds us, even if we smash our TV we will still bound to hear the propaganda from some idiot somewhere. That being said, I'm talking about what it is, not about what it is suppose to be. What is this actually? It is well planned war to destroy a country which became the model for Africa, an independent country, an anti-Imperialist country. No one here can deny the fact that Libya was the most prosperous nation in Africa, infact more prosperous than Russia.

The massive coordinated attack against the Libyan Revolutionary regime clearly shows the deep planning gone in to this, the same goes for 2 decade of undercover operations, supporting terrorists within Libya, and the product of those terrorists pawns are hidden from the media as we speak. Did you watch the videos?

You think the imaginary group Al-Qaeda is bad? Watch the video, it shows CIA pawns hanging someone upside down (probably a soldier) by his legs and smashing his head with swords.

If you want I can post another video showing the victims of CIA pawn's rape and murder of a whole family, including the young daughters. It is horrific, what is more horrific is the media deafening silence towards these stories, instead is insanely quick in spreading insane reports (unconfirmed), confirmed propaganda lies and also partial and twisted truth.

Originally posted by Vanishr
reply to post by Mdv2

 

Maybe you should do some research & you will see before NATO, Gaddafi gave back alot of $ to the people via there oil supplies. I heard of a $20000 one time payment for young couples who get married for the first time & a similar amount to people starting there first business's & thats on top of the set amount that EVERY libyan citizen recieved yearly via there oil trade. Most of them would have been getting more benefits than we get in the UK or the US, there oil was nationalized, not a corporate entity.

Yup and from "our" perspective, oil money being used for economic stimulus of a banana republic is wasted oil money. Better to go on our internet and twinkies.

reply to post by Vanishr


You are right, I just checked the PPP of Libya and it's remarkably high. I guess the propaganda machine has also partly affected me. Although there's no doubt on my mind that the Gadaffi family benefited himself mostly of the country's rich oil reserves, one should ask himself whether that's any worse than Western oil companies profiting from it. In the end, these companies only enrich themselves (Shell makes €2 billion / hour, while we, the people, pay a fortunate at the pump. Who are we to judge if Gadaffi is any worse than our corporate elites?

Thanks for the sharing your insight.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


Gee whiz, a new strategic maxim you can't win a war from the air, this sounds like advice from 1937.

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by Vanishr

 

You are right, I just checked the PPP of Libya and it's remarkably high. I guess the propaganda machine has also partly affected me. Although there's no doubt on my mind that the Gadaffi family benefited himself mostly of the country's rich oil reserves, one should ask himself whether that's any worse than Western oil companies profiting from it. In the end, these companies only enrich themselves (Shell makes €2 billion / hour, while we, the people, pay a fortunate at the pump. Who are we to judge Gadaffi is any worse than our corporate elites?

A direct comparison probably isn't such a good idea. Oil contracts awarded by the leader we install into Libya will be considerably a better deal for us and a worse deal for the libyan people than has been the case under Gadaffi.

He has benefitted greatly from the oil money sure, it's one of the perks of leading a poor country. But at least the money is actually going on stimulus projects, whereas you got leaders like Mugabe who couldn't give a crap about his countries economy, totally different kettle of fish imo.

The oil companies we have dont get a chance to do anything good with the profit they make, they buy oil contracts cheap as dirt, drill and refine oil and sell it to us at outrageous prices and keep the profits. With Gadaffi selling it, he's not just keeping the profits for himself, but the money is actually going into economic stimulus outside of the oil sector itself.

reply to post by Vanishr


Libya "won" in every single bracket of society in UN tests of African countries, every bracket in all cases tested against every country in Africa, best health care, best education, best social infrastructure, most equitable sharing of the wealth, best literacy rates, best food, best water by far see the great man made river, they probably did better than many of the ex east bloc countries in Europe.

It's fairly obvious he didn't waste vast quantities on the military budget.

reply to post by Thepreye


Yup and this war was about saving poor oppressed people my foot, what about Robert Mugabe and other tyrants and the people living/dying under him? Lets just wring our hands about that.

Then you had a war in Iraq when Saddamn said he had no WMDs, while Kim Jung Il is jumping around like a madman and blatantly firing them off and threatening WW3 and we just totally ignore it?

Anyone who is still in doubt about wars for oil just isn't paying attention.

reply to post by Mdv2


Thanks for the response, im sure i read that info on a thread posted on here, although it was a few weeks ago so its what i can remember from memory, there was other evidence as you say, of Libya basically being the 'best' country in Africa, for many different reasons, Another great thing was how the libyan people were living further above the povertyline than most in the US or UK as well as the other things they had that were better than us !

Makes you laugh lol, this 'terrible evil dictator' who 'told his soldiers to rape & gave them viagra like drugs' also appears to have treated his citizens remarkably well, throughout his rule. I mean im not one for a dictator being in power then passing it on to his son/daughter, so theres no chance of real democracy, But what we have in the UK & US is much worse, As for the UK i mean we have the royal family who are just inbred, eugenic supporting, crazies (from years of inbreeding) & what hope do we have of getting them out of power ? the queen herself is the only one who can accept a PM, if the PM isnt in the royal familys pocket, he will not be the PM ! this is why our country is in such a massive sh*theap, as for the US, im sure you know full well how your elections are rigged & a president in the current climate will never be elected into the position of president, unless he follows his orders from his masters, its the same with Sarkozy. You can bet that Gaddaffi was refusing to allow them to exploit his country and his people & this is what were seeing now, what they threaten with if you dont comply.

You get demonized across the world, attacked by all mainstream media agencies & then your country gets invaded, while a convenient CIA coup is happening, Oh maybe we should join forces with the CIA 'rebels'

So much Bullsh*t involving Libya, i can smell it from the UK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by confreak


Had this under US operation, it will be better. My suspicion is NATO will give up. Leave sanctions in place, and possibly some ships to maintain an offshore-blockade. That's fairly easy for them (and by them, I mean the non-US members of NATO) to pull off. Putting in ground troops is something I don't see happening. While I think it would be needed to get rid of MaQ, no NATO country is willing to do that without US support/participation, which they've realized isn't going to happen. NATO minus the US isn't powerful enough to pull that off.

While a true no-fly zone might be an attractive option, again, no wants to start doing Operation Desert Fox again, and the other countries don't have the resources to accomplish it.

I agree with you that the this whole thing was extremely poorly planned. That's why NATO should be disbanded or i wish the US leaves that forsaken place. NATO was originally formed to defend the USSR and now that threat is gone.