Reexamination: The Declaration of Independence 2009

At the beginning of 2009, ATS member projectvxn took it upon himself to collaborate a new Declaration of Independence that summarized the problems with this country at the time, and took into consideration the issues that many posters brought to light as to what needed to be included within.

Eventually that Declaration became a beacon of hope for many people on ATS, and we tried to the best of our abilities to get word out - to send a message to the government that we were tired of their tactics and ignorance towards the people. We had several people that helped host a website and who purchased domain names for the project, heck, I even produced a flier for people to hang in their neighborhoods in order to perk people's attention, and after a little over 300 signatures, the project died.

Now, looking back on the Declaration, and reading it over again today - I still can't help but to feel that the issues stated within are not only still going on, but they have gotten worse since the beginning of 2009. I'm sure that even today we would be able to include even more things on the list of grievances, such as problems caused by the whole TSA situation, the health care bill, issues involving the budget and government shutdown, and so on and so forth.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is simple. Since early 2009, ATS has seen an influx of new people, many of whom have never gotten a chance to peruse the new Declaration or comment upon. Personally, I believe that the document deserved the full support of everybody back then, but perhaps now, which the crises of the world affecting each and every one of us in some way, we can appreciate the the candor of such a document, and maybe even give it another run to try to garner the support we need to make the government take notice and listen to the people.

So without further ado:

The Declaration of Independence 2009
Credit: projectvxn and everyone else who was involved in supporting it the first time around.



I ask that everyone take a look if you haven't read it already, and give your comments and criticisms. Even if you have read it in the past, maybe now the problems mentioned would sound more familiar to you and perhaps you should give it another read?

I just want to help bring back something I felt was a positive step in a right direction for this country, and bring it to light for all the newer generations of ATS members. Thanks for reading.

-Gwyd

reply to post by gwydionblack


Correction, I'm not a moderator anymore.

And I've changed a lot since.

While that post is still relevant in it's grievances I'm no longer certain it is necessary to declare independence from the system. I think we need reform and restoration rather than some revolutionary action with little chance of changing things for the better.


When I wrote that I was simply fed up with what I saw going on from the Bush administration to the Obama administration. Revolutionary change leaves much to chance, and simply put there is no way I'm leaving Liberty up to chance.

Today there are corporatist, socialist and communist interests working for control of the US. I seek decentralization through constitutional and legal means. I seek the reduction of the size of a large and bloated government. Walking away from the system and picking a fight with it is not a way to restore stability and sanity, but a sure way to do the opposite.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Revolutionary change leaves much to chance, and simply put there is no way I'm leaving Liberty up to chance.

Today there are corporatist, socialist and communist interests working for control of the US. I seek decentralization through constitutional and legal means. I seek the reduction of the size of a large and bloated government. Walking away from the system and picking a fight with it is not a way to restore stability and sanity, but a sure way to do the opposite.

I couldn't agree more and have said the very same thing to those who think revolution will certainly yield the results they want rather than what we could possible end up with.

I truly fear what the Great Compromise of today might be.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

I think we need reform and restoration rather than some revolutionary action with little chance of changing things for the better.

Walking away from the system and picking a fight with it is not a way to restore stability and sanity, but a sure way to do the opposite.

edit on 10-4-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

What I see is Americans using the framework set up by the founders..

not walking away from the system.. working within the system.

ANYTHING done will be seen as hostile actions...

Returning to Constitutional Principles in the politically corrupt environment of Capitol Hill today will be a fierce fight.

--Off Topic, One Liners and General Back Scratching Posts--




Reply to projectvxn
Correction, I'm not a moderator anymore.

And I've changed a lot since.

While that post is still relevant in it's grievances I'm no longer certain it is necessary to declare independence from the system. I think we need reform and restoration rather than some revolutionary action with little chance of changing things for the better.


When I wrote that I was simply fed up with what I saw going on from the Bush administration to the Obama administration. Revolutionary change leaves much to chance, and simply put there is no way I'm leaving Liberty up to chance.

Today there are corporatist, socialist and communist interests working for control of the US. I seek decentralization through constitutional and legal means. I seek the reduction of the size of a large and bloated government. Walking away from the system and picking a fight with it is not a way to restore stability and sanity, but a sure way to do the opposite.


I agree with you 100% if you start a new Declaration of Independence you would also start up some really bad problems as well as the same ones we already got. I think you guys shouldn't quit make your fliers about the truth and still go door to door get the truth out so people start caring and voting again.

Here's the original:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here are the You Tube videos made:

reply to post by projectvxn


Alas, a problem I am being faced with on many sides. You may have changed, as is obvious by your stance, but the system has not.

Honestly, people can make excuses for which course of action they choose to take, but when I see someone turn their back on a revolutionary cause that they once felt so strongly about, I can only assume it is because of one thing: they have given up.

The revolutionary way is not an easy one. IN FACT it is the hardest route to take. One might disagree. One might say that the hardest route is changing the system by abiding by it's rules. I can only laugh at that, because that isn't the hardest route - it is the impossible route. The chances of success are non-existent. You of all people should know that the game is rigged to prevent change. Come 2012, if the world doesn't end, there will be another president elected, another puppet to carry on the scheme that was started over a century ago.

Believing that change can happen through votes, or by using the system by it's own standards - it is a pipe dream and it always has been; nothing more than an illusion to keep people busy and wasting their time.

You are right though. Revolutionary change does leave much to chance... but at least THERE IS A CHANCE through revolutionary actions. You want to turn the Constitution against them? Guess what- it doesn't exist in their eyes anymore, so why would they even bother to listen? You want to run the legal gauntlet and bring about some change? Guess what - THEY CONTROL the legal system.




I just don't understand how people can actually believe that tyrants would allow for any kind of system that would enable ANYONE to usurp or diminish their powers. While people look at the leadership of this nation as buffoons incapable of leading a sheep - they are the ones with 300 million people under their control. They are the ones that did it without anyone raising an eyebrow. They are the ones that will continue to make sure that anything short of a full on revolution leads this country straight down the same path it has been heading since well before this new Declaration was written. These people are geniuses, and we are the sheep. So long as we continue to follow their rules and continue to believe that they are somehow better then us, that they somehow deserve to have control over us and the actions we take, that they somehow are an immortal beast that cannot be threatened - then we will always be sheep.

I am not a sheep. I am outside of the system. I fight the system. I deny the system. And so help me God as I have said from day one here on ATS, I will not hesitate to open fire upon the system if it means getting my freedom as a human being; if it means securing my rights that are inalienable and yet continue to be alienated from me. This is my duty as a human being and as a free man, to sacrifice everything if need be so that others can have something to live for.

reply to post by gwydionblack

Alas, a problem I am being faced with on many sides. You may have changes, as is obvious by your stance, but the system has not. Honestly, people can make excuses for which course of action they choose to take, but when I see someone turn their back on a revolutionary cause that they once felt so strongly about, I can only assume it is because of one thing: they have given up.

I haven't given up. I just don't think shooting the bastards is the right idea. Nor is trying to collapse the system. Certain people looking to usurp our liberties are COUNTING on the strife, the misery, and the destabilization to effect their agenda. I won't aid this. The game has changed and so have the rules so therefore the game plan has changed. And While the same problems are still there, and as you said, have gotten worse, we cannot hope to effect change in the manner in which our Founders did.

The revolutionary way is not an easy one. IN FACT it is the hardest route to take. One might disagree. One might say that the hardest route is changing the system by abiding by it's rules. I can only laugh at that, because that isn't the hardest route - it is the impossible route. The chances of success are non-existent. You of all people should know that the game is rigged to prevent change. Come 2012, if the world doesn't end, there will be another president elected, another puppet to carry on the scheme that was started over a century ago.

Control is the name of the game. But I think it's a good strategy to help wake people up. The amount of people favoring a government shutdown was in the high 60's a couple of days ago. That should tell you something about what is happening to the collective psyche of the nation. Spilling blood is not the best way to go.

Believing that change can happen through votes, or by using the system by it's own standards - it is a pipe dream and it always has been; nothing more than an illusion to keep people busy and wasting their time.

For the first time in many, many years people are taking the notion of seriously shrinking the size and scope of the government. While many have given passive effort and lip-service to the notion, even recently, the idea can no longer be ignored. Liberty has never been so popular as it is today.

Economic Liberty, Individual Liberty, less government are more popular than the crap the corporatist, socialists and commies are peddling. I think that's a good thing and rather than putting the brakes on it with revolutionary actions we should be aiding it by making the case better and more clear.

You are right though. Revolutionary change does leave much to chance... but at least THERE IS A CHANCE through revolutionary actions. You want to turn the Constitution against them? Guess what- it doesn't exist in their eyes anymore, so why would they even bother to listen? You want to run the legal gauntlet and bring about some change? Guess what - THEY CONTROL the legal system.

It is this lack of patience and recklessness that will hand the others who are willing to usurp your rights in a misguided attempt to start and win a class war the very thing they want, control.

I just don't understand how people can actually believe that tyrants would allow for any kind of system that would enable ANYONE to usurp or diminish their powers. While people look at the leadership of this nation as buffoons incapable of leading a sheep - they are the ones with 300 million people under their control. They are the ones that did it without anyone raising an eyebrow. They are the ones that will continue to make sure that anything short of a full on revolution leads this country straight down the same path it has been heading since well before this new Declaration was written. These people are geniuses, and we are the sheep. So long as we continue to follow their rules and continue to believe that they are somehow better then us, that they somehow deserve to have control over us and the actions we take, that they somehow are an immortal beast that cannot be threatened - then we will always be sheep. I am not a sheep. I am outside of the system. I fight the system. I deny the system. And so help me God as I have said from day one here on ATS, I will not hesitate to open fire upon the system if it means getting my freedom as a human being; if it means securing my rights that are inalienable and yet continue to be alienated from me. This is my duty as a human being and as a free man, to sacrifice everything if need be so that others can have something to live for.

Have patience my friend. People will do the right thing when the time comes. The right thing is not found in our rifles.

I look to the French Revolution to understand why revolution is not necessarily a good thing.

All the French Revolution gave the French and the world was Napoleon. I don't want that happening here.

Reform-Restore.

Trust in God(if you believe) trust in your fellow Americans, trust in yourself.

reply to post by projectvxn


I understand your stance, and it will remain as mine, but only until 2013. The 2012 election will be the final judgment as to whether or not the people are capable of handling themselves out of the situation we are in, or if those in power will even allow for changes to occur.

Back in 2009 I came upon ATS and I stated that my deadline was 2013. If the revolution did not start by the hands of others by then, then I would be the one to initiate it by any means necessary. When the election is over and those chosen by the people's hands step into power - if they took the right steps then the revolution will have already begun, the mental revolution that is needed for Americans to do anything "by the book" to secure our liberties. But if the people elect more of the same, if they depend further upon the two-party system to lead the way in our society - then I will know that the minds of the people have failed them, and they have subjected themselves to the strife that may come from revolution.

It may be so that some people are happy with slavery, or at least force themselves to believe that they are - but I am not, and I know many others who aren't. Come that ill-fated year, if the world is still standing, and the system has once again gone down that same dark road, then the revolution WILL begin... I guarantee it.

Until then, there are 630 days remaining until I make my final decision. Until that time, the people have the floor. Let's see what they can do with themselves.

reply to post by projectvxn

I look to the French Revolution to understand why revolution is not necessarily a good thing.

I agree with practically everything you wrote in the post above this one. I would like to point out, however, that revolutions are not necessarily a bad thing either, and violence is not a prerequisite for revolution. The "velvet revolutions" of Eastern Europe in the late 80's and early 90's is a fine example.

While Ronald Regan - one of those people who paid lip service to limited government all the while expanding government - is credited with causing the fall of the Soviet Union, I think that credit belongs to the people of Russia. I also think that Soviet Russians had mastered the fine art of non-acquiescence. I suspect that to the face of their government officials they would nod their heads in agreement as if they were acquiescing and then when government turned its back the people went back to doing whatever it was they felt was necessary to survive.

We have lost our freedom in the United States through acquiescence. I agree with you that there are factions that are salivating at the idea of a violent revolt so they can use this as an excuse to clamp down even more on the American people. The United States military has become too powerful to take on toe to toe. At this point, it is going to take a much more subtle revolution. A peaceful act of non acquiescence.

I was hoping to bring this to light to newer users who might not have read it before and get their opinions, however it seems like it is the same old faces discussing the issues.

Does anyone have any comments or criticisms at all? Has anyone else actually even read the document?

Originally posted by gwydionblackHonestly, people can make excuses for which course of action they choose to take, but when I see someone turn their back on a revolutionary cause that they once felt so strongly about, I can only assume it is because of one thing: they have given up.

Please don't be too harsh on PV he has since decided to join the military and cannot afford to espouse such thoughts as it would jeopardize his future within the organization.

I will not speak for him but since I am a retired Military Officer and now a proud card carrying member of the Oathkeepers I can only speculate on his reasons.

While I supported the OathKeepers cause while on active duty and if the need arose would have invoked the ideals but I did not join or put my name on the roles asx a paying member.

The reasons are simple - loosing access to the information to which I was privy as a member of Special Operaions could have been in jeopardy had anyone taken to consider the Oathkeepers organization a seditious, subversive or violent one.

All it would take is one person in the group to jump the gun and act instead of advocate and the whole group would be ferreted out and dealt with harshly costing me my means to prepare for the future financially and organizationally. In that case, at a minimum one's clearance would be revoked if not one's career ended prematurely. The end justifies the means sometimes.

Sometimes the best place to affect things is from the inside and that requires the taking of some oaths and the breaking of others. HIs reasons are his own.

reply to post by Golf66


There's no need to speculate. My reasons have been made quite clear in post after post in this thread.

I have taken it upon myself to update the Declaration of Independence 2009 to coincide with events that have happened since it's creation. At the request of the site administrators, I am posting in the older topic since I am not allowed to have a new one relating to this document.

With that said, I cannot fit the content of the text on this site. It can be read at the following link:

The Declaration of Independence 2015

I would like to open discussion on the issue, if indeed that is allowed anymore on ATS.

Let us do so at the original topic:

The Declaration of Independence 2009 topic on ATS