Pray for _________

Before making a comment or reading my question just know I'm not bashing "praying" and/or "religion". Indeed I am a religious, Catholic, person with just a question that I've been wondering about.

My question is what is the "benefit" of hundreds of thousands of people praying for Haiti or Japan or Iraq or children with Cancer. God is all seeing and all knowing, so #1 he is well aware of the disasters at hand and #2 isn't one prayer good, since he is all seeing and knowing, he will hear/answer your prayers? Or does the "prayer aura" illuminate "brighter" because there are so many people simulnatiously praying?...

Just a question.

Thanks for any/all insight!

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Before making a comment or reading my question just know I'm not bashing "praying" and/or "religion". Indeed I am a religious, Catholic, person with just a question that I've been wondering about.

My question is what is the "benefit" of hundreds of thousands of people praying for Haiti or Japan or Iraq or children with Cancer. God is all seeing and all knowing, so #1 he is well aware of the disasters at hand and #2 isn't one prayer good, since he is all seeing and knowing, he will hear/answer your prayers? Or does the "prayer aura" illuminate "brighter" because there are so many people simulnatiously praying?...

Just a question.

Prayer is good, most especially when we realise that it is US who are here to answer prayers in the name of God.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Before making a comment or reading my question just know I'm not bashing "praying" and/or "religion". Indeed I am a religious, Catholic, person with just a question that I've been wondering about.

My question is what is the "benefit" of hundreds of thousands of people praying for Haiti or Japan or Iraq or children with Cancer. God is all seeing and all knowing, so #1 he is well aware of the disasters at hand and #2 isn't one prayer good, since he is all seeing and knowing, he will hear/answer your prayers? Or does the "prayer aura" illuminate "brighter" because there are so many people simulnatiously praying?...

Just a question.

Thanks for any/all insight!

edit on 31-3-2011 by CanadianDream420 because: (no reason given)

1Cor 13

13:1 If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 13:3 If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Thom 48

48 Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in a single house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move from here!' and it will move."

Indeed, love and unity are key to make big things happen. Without love we are disorganized, abstract, without semblance, and he even goes so far as to say we're "nothing" without it. TPTB and all other wicked forces create all this conflict and spread animosity which directly goes against our right to unite and love each other as family. This is why all the war and other bull# is happening: they don't want us to unite as a people, they want us to stay closed up behind our borders, throwing stones at our neighbours... and they're the ones supplying the stones.

Hope. Hope that people wake up and realize we're all in this together.

Think of prayer like this.

Have you ever been at work and everyone is in a bad mood except for you? Now even though you are in a good mood, the bad mood of the others has an effect on yours. It might be a large or small effect, but it does have an effect. The same happens if you are the only one in the bad mood and the rest are in a good mood. You will find yourself laughing and smiling even though you really don't feel like it.

Prayer works in the same way. The more people who pray for a positive outcome could actually will the Japanese people towards a better outcome if they hear that people are actually praying for a quick and safe recovery.

It gives them an added boost that makes them work a little harder.

Some say god gives them that boost to help them go the extra mile and some will say it is just the extra motivation. Either way, prayer does help.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


nah, it's just a way to make people feel like their doing something worth while, kinda waste of time in my opinion, why pray when you can actually go out and make a difference?

reply to post by CanadianDream420


what does praying hurt?

Wow. Great feedback =)

Originally posted by Nobama
nah, it's just a way to make people feel like their doing something worth while, kinda waste of time in my opinion, why pray when you can actually go out and make a difference?

Ummm.. you should re-read the replies.

Originally posted by Darkk
reply to post by CanadianDream420

 

what does praying hurt?

Depends on the context it's used in. If you e.g. use or recommend it as practised by religionist elitistist, categorically EXCLUDING medicine as a supplementary method in the case of serious illness and ONLY relying on prayer, you're both bonkers and an ideological sociopath (if enforcing it on other people, especially children).

Another specific (though characteristic) example is a person I once knew, who usually forgot to put anti-freeze in her gasolin, so her carburettor regularly froze. She used to solve the problem with a short prayer, which lasted exactly long enough for the carburettor to un-freeze from 'natural' reasons. Nonetheless she insisted on this un-freezing as a 'proof' of 'god' and a 'proof' of the power of prayer.

I'm sure this example is representative of much theist attitudes in the subject.

So I agree with Nobama suggesting a use of standard mundane methods, such as "actually going out and making a difference" with methods pragmatically observed to be functional, instead of using speculative fantasies.

I'm saying this from my own position as an amateur reiki-healer, with a strong sympathy for natural medicine and as one who has experienced many un-explainable things (even to the point of socalled miracles), so I'm not completely antagonistic to the idea of 'magic'.

I only suggest, that you wait with the possible 'magic' until timeproven methods are used up. I also suggest that even if 'magic' exists, there's no reason whatsoever to turn it into any specified religious system (as it functions equally well or equally bad for all religions as well as for atheists/agnostics or the general secularist, when they apply their own similar versions without deity involved).

Prayer creates positive energy thats emitted by our own minds, not by some fanciful god. its not as powerful as meditation, but still creates the same sensation in our mind and body. we all have the power because we are all "god".

reply to post by IAMIAM


Hi my part-time friend.

You wrote: ["Prayer is good, most especially when we realise that it is US who are here to answer prayers in the name of God."]

As you proably remember, I'm european and this handicaps me from understanding the finer nuances of and justifications for the US-based christian version of 'god' and definitely from understanding US main-stream 'humour' (maybe these two are the same?).

So knowing you as a mostly intelligent and sane person (from my perspective your shortcomings are forgivable, though not beyond reproach), I'll give you the benefit of doubt, and consider this as witticism.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


It is the act of praying and the intent of the heart. To place upon ourselves a burden of another, to feel their pain and visualize healing and hope toward them, no matter who they are or where they come from, unconditionally, I think is a noble effort worthy of prayer. "Giving of one's self" is symbolic of sacrifice and suffering for another in reality, without condition, says much about a person's intentions. The act alone needs no explanation and is seen by our Creator.

Just my two-cents^2!

reply to post by AdamsMurmur


It is the act of praying and the intent of the heart. To place upon ourselves a burden of another, to feel their pain and visualize healing and hope toward them, no matter who they are or where they come from, unconditionally, I think is a noble effort worthy of prayer. "Giving of one's self" is symbolic of sacrifice and suffering for another in reality, without condition, says much about a person's intentions. The act alone needs no explanation and is seen by our Creator.

Just my two-cents^2!

Originally posted by Rekrul
Prayer creates positive energy thats emitted by our own minds, not by some fanciful god. its not as powerful as meditation, but still creates the same sensation in our mind and body. we all have the power because we are all "god".

Until some creative method is found to 'explain' prayer more conclusively and in a broader context, we can in the meantime only pray that prayer is considered from your perspective (which IMO is the most reasonable so far).

Originally posted by bogomil
Hi my part-time friend.

Bogo! I am your friend 24/7. You do not know how often you are in my thoughts and how much a thrill I get out of seeing you in threads I come across.

Originally posted by bogomil
You wrote: ["Prayer is good, most especially when we realise that it is US who are here to answer prayers in the name of God."]

As you proably remember, I'm european and this handicaps me from understanding the finer nuances of and justifications for the US-based christian version of 'god' and definitely from understanding US main-stream 'humour' (maybe these two are the same?).

I am equally confused as you my friend. Remember, to most US Christians, I am a heretic, a blasphemer, or just plain ignorant. To others, I am Christian. To myself, I am Christ resurrected! LOL

Originally posted by bogomil
So knowing you as a mostly intelligent and sane person (from my perspective your shortcomings are forgivable, though not beyond reproach), I'll give you the benefit of doubt, and consider this as witticism.

Thanks for the new word "witticism". I had to look it up. I wasn't sure if I had to check my drawers or stand at attention! LOL

Let me explain...

Can you increase your stature by one inch by praying? Will a glass of water quench your thirst simply by sincerely asking God to put it to your lips that you may drink? Absolutely not.

Neither will praying for the homeless to have shelter make them warm in the winter. Neither will praying for war to cease in the middle east stop the blood shed. No amount of praying will save the people of Japan.

Prayer alone does nothing but make the person praying feel good, that they have done something when they chose to do nothing.

God is within all of us and we have been endowed with great gifts by which WE can answer each others prayers. Ask and ye shall receive should be the motto of all of us. If it were we could create the Heaven we all envision on this earth.

So, pray but do so privately. Ask publicly and fulfil the requests of those who do so.

Now that I know, I can assure you it was no witticism.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
My question is what is the "benefit" of hundreds of thousands of people praying for Haiti or Japan or Iraq or children with Cancer.

No benefit whatsoever to those you're praying for.
...

reply to post by IAMIAM


Thanks YOUARE.

You wrote:

["Bogo! I am your friend 24/7."]

That's because you generally are more tolerant than me. I have my reputation as being cantankerous to live up to.

More seriously..

Quote: [" Neither will praying for the homeless to have shelter make them warm in the winter. Neither will praying for war to cease in the middle east stop the blood shed. No amount of praying will save the people of Japan."]

Personally being so simpleminded, that I believe in pragmatism, I ofcourse agree with you. If prayer had the power sometimes ascribed to it, WW II would have stopped after maximum half a year, as a massive amount of prayer would have been made in (the then) strongly catholic Poland, where the misery started.

And as the polish people in many ways are quite decent, there's no reason to suspect any special divine retribution for bad behaviour on their part, nullifying prayers. At best, or worst as you take it, the polish could possibly have been the equalent of homeless in US, which only exist to serve as warning example in a system of social darwinism.
(Or the often forgotten or ignored family, 'servants' (slaves) and animals of Job, all slaughtered to test obedience).

Quote: ["God is within all of us...."]

Hmmm. SOMETHING is probably within us. I reserve my opinion untill after some thousand more incarnations, or after a fullscale permanent, trans-mundane experince or after still being alive after I'm dead (though the last could have been better formulated).

Quote: ["....and we have been endowed with great gifts by which WE can answer each others prayers."]

As to both the endower and its motives...answer as just above.

Quote: ["Ask and ye shall receive should be the motto of all of us."]

As this 'something' already is inside me, I naturally ask myself (enhanced asking-methodology level ofcourse).

Quote: ["So, pray but do so privately. Ask publicly and fulfil the requests of those who do so."]

I take it, that you now are addressing the broad public, not me; as I don't pray.

Quote: ["Now that I know, I can assure you it was no witticism."]

In my suggestion of witticism, I didn't refer to prayer per se, but to US being the representative. I took it to be the nation US, not 'us' as in 'we'. My bad; total linguistic sloppy incompetence on my part.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
My question is what is the "benefit" of hundreds of thousands of people praying for Haiti or Japan or Iraq or children with Cancer.

No benefit whatsoever to those you're praying for.
...

On the note of: "Somebody is interested and cares about me" (and I know about it) it could possibly have therapeutic value. Otherwise I would agree with you.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
My question is what is the "benefit" of hundreds of thousands of people praying for Haiti or Japan or Iraq or children with Cancer.

No benefit whatsoever to those you're praying for.
...

On the note of: "Somebody is interested and cares about me" (and I know about it) it could possibly have therapeutic value. Otherwise I would agree with you.

Sure, recognizing someone's empathy might be reassuring though I don't know if that could be considered a benefit. Then again there was the study a few years ago where patients were prayed for - and those who knew they were being prayed for did worse than those that didn't know they were being prayed for. Prayer can actually have negative returns.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You wrote:

["Then again there was the study a few years ago where patients were prayed for - and those who knew they were being prayed for did worse than those that didn't know they were being prayed for. Prayer can actually have negative returns."]

Thanks.

New and interesting information I was unfamiliar with. Hope I don't digress too much, when I compare it with some older experiments and a poll.

On milkfactory-farms it was once tried to play music for the cows to increase the milk-production. It worked, the milk-production went up. But then, when the music after a period was stopped again, the milkproduction went STILL more up. There's no immediate conclusions to draw from this as a parallel to the effects of praying, except that the influence of some changes in the environment is beyond what's to be expected.

The Monroe system of sound-induced altered brain-frequencies (to the alpha state) and hemispheric coordination has shown faster healing after surgery.

A poll amongst patients with (what I believe to be minor chronic) illnessess, showed that of those treated with modern medicine 13% felt beneficial results, of those treated with 'natural medicine' 14% felt better and of those completely untreated 15% felt better (or something like that, it's 30+ years ago I read it).

And while this kind of information is far removed from topic, and in some ways is useless, it does show the importance of finding a suitable frame, when consequences of uncertain phenomena are evaluated.

reply to post by Darkk




That all depends on who you are praying to and how you pray. Jesus said to pray in private, not in public as the heathens do. When Christ prayed, he always went off by himself. Yet, people today insist on praying in public, out loud with others. If you pray wrong, it could hurt you.