Plato's Philosopher Kings would be best form of Government....

Philosopher kings are the rulers, or Guardians, of Plato's Utopian Kallipolis. If his ideal city-state is to ever come into being, "philosophers [must] become kings…or those now called kings [must]…genuinely and adequately philosophize" (The Republic, 5.473d).

"Plato defined a philosopher firstly as its eponymous occupation – wisdom-lover. He then distinguishes between one who loves true knowledge as opposed to simple sights or education by saying that the philosopher is the only person who has access to Forms – the archetypal entities that exist behind all representations of the form (such as Beauty itself as opposed to any one particular instance of beauty). It is next and in support of the idea that philosophers are the best rulers that Plato fashions the ship of state metaphor, one of his most often cited ideas (along with his allegory of the cave)"

........ I personally feel this would be the best form of Government. a bunch of Enlightened beings or Buddha-Christs ruling over the people of the world. Where achievement of Enlightenment would be one of the most vital aspects of life.

These Philosopher kings would ideally be Self-less, incorruptable, just, wise, and completely Enlightened.

Your take?

reply to post by dominicus


Plato: The Republic

Then, I said, the business of us who are the founders of the State will be to compel the best minds to attain that knowledge which we have already shown to be the greatest of all-they must continue to ascend until they arrive at the good; but when they have ascended and seen enough we must not allow them to do as they do now.

What do you mean?

I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labours and honours, whether they are worth having or not.

reply to post by dominicus


100% agree with you brother.

Well, I think the people at the top at the moment are there for a career and to make money in a relatively ''easy'' profession. But being at the top isn't about that... Or shouldn't be. You should be there to make things better for everyone in the country over which you preside.

Only problem is that lots of people can philosophize. And who's to say philosophers can't be corrupted. Human Nature would need to change first.

reply to post by dominicus

dominicus,

But like any good philosopher, that king would want to have a group of philosophers behind him to reflect and discuss his philosophies with, right??

So basically an aristocracy under a monarchy (of philosophers).....................only problem is, who will be determining who is and who isn't a genuine philosopher. What actually defines a genuine philosopher?

Democracy isn't working either so maybe we could try this.

Peace

As long as you're OK with censorship of the arts, brain washing, being spoon-fed a false religion, never knowing your parents/kids, and being told how worthy you are + what what to do with your life by the state, then Plato's Utopia isn't all that bad.

reply to post by dominicus


I like it... In fact, we are about to live this way.

The governing powers must fall, however... Along with the entire reality we currently abide in.

If you haven't heard of George Kavassilas, check him out... now that's a modern day philosopher. Our Journey and The Grand Deception is a great video that hits some key points about what is coming.

I think a world where people did not feel they had any sort of attribute or skill which granted them favorable positions or sense of right and command over another is more ideal than a kingdom guided by enlightened beings. In other words, a world that has eradicated the notion of the existence of positions of a higher being that dominates others in any way. We're all socially equal once we realize there is no higher class of being. There is however a higher plane of existence, but no enlightened being ought to rule over me just because he lives in this higher plane. They can rule that plane, and I'll rule mine.

reply to post by Boreas

As long as you're OK with censorship of the arts, brain washing, being spoon-fed a false religion, never knowing your parents/kids, and being told how worthy you are + what what to do with your life by the state, then Plato's Utopia isn't all that bad.

A genuine Enlightened and psychologically healthy Philosopher would encourage the fruitful flowering of the arts, freedom of speech, abolishing of censorship, freedom from brainwashing, there would be measures of Absolute freedoms, etc.

I think you've mistaken some kind of Tyranny with the idea of a Platonic Utopia ....which would ultimately be lead by folks who have enlightenment, smaller government, fair, balanced, etc.

Its headed towards this direction anyway since the next logical evolutionary step is the activation of Spiritual enlightenment.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Boreas

 

As long as you're OK with censorship of the arts, brain washing, being spoon-fed a false religion, never knowing your parents/kids, and being told how worthy you are + what what to do with your life by the state, then Plato's Utopia isn't all that bad.

A genuine Enlightened and psychologically healthy Philosopher would encourage the fruitful flowering of the arts, freedom of speech, abolishing of censorship, freedom from brainwashing, there would be measures of Absolute freedoms, etc.

I think you've mistaken some kind of Tyranny with the idea of a Platonic Utopia ....which would ultimately be lead by folks who have enlightenment, smaller government, fair, balanced, etc.

Its headed towards this direction anyway since the next logical evolutionary step is the activation of Spiritual enlightenment.

I actually pulled everything that I wrote from the ideal state described in Plato's Republic and the steps Socrates outlines to Glaucon which would need to be taken in order to create the perfect state. But yes, it does sound a bit tyrannical.

reply to post by Boreas

I actually pulled everything that I wrote from the ideal state described in Plato's Republic and the steps Socrates outlines to Glaucon which would need to be taken in order to create the perfect state. But yes, it does sound a bit tyrannical.

I just dont see it ...the tyrannical part. Regardless, at the top, there always has to be a president, a counsel, or a embassador, prime minister, etc etc.....

So its the same idea except this time it is someone who cannot be corrupted by corps and is someone who has spiritual enlightenment seeing absolute fairness in all dealings.

Sort of a complicated way of saying that an enlightened despotism is the best form of government. Which I tend to agree with. If someone who is wise, competent, and selfless somehow managed to wind up as dictator for life and not be corrupted by it, then the civilization would absolutely thrive.

I am however a bit doubtful of the chances of this ever happening in reality.

It would certainly be a million times better than any form of democracy. Which at worst is rule by the most corrupt, at best is rule by the mass-opinions of the lowest common denominator. Actually those two tend to be the same.

But yeah, unlikely to actually find your country ruled by someone wise, competent, and selfless. Judging from history, it's much more likely you'll have somebody who thinks he's that person. And that's bad. Very bad.

Nobody with an active fantasy life should be given any sort of power whatsoever. Of course, this would be a difficult test to administer. And most people would fail (of course, that's the whole point).

dominicus: As great of thinkers men like Plato were, and that they most surely were, they hypothesized on solutions from a very enclosed and box like mind state. The only way they knew civilization to exist were by the ruling hand of corrupt kings, thus they tried to draft solutions to this problem from a king/peasant (Guardian/Subject) perspective. There is much to learn from Plato's, and others, line of thinking, but the practical application of their societies can lead only back into the same corrupt, flawed form of rule they so desperately sought to move beyond. The reason is because a truly virtuous and spiritually enlightened person, as Plato describes the Guardians, would not seek to rule over anyone. This he could not see because he himself was not spiritually enlightened.

I do however, still very much so, enjoy reading the Republic. Right now I am reading the Autobiography of Gandhi, another great mind. There have been so many great minds, and yet not enough.