The Truth of the Tucson Shooting Being Exposed by ATS Members and Others

I cringed when I first learned that the Tucson shooter (allegedly Jared Loughner) was likely a posting member here on ATS under Erad3. Honestly, my first instinct was to back away from ATS and even rethink continuing to pursue my own website project. After a personal review of my own thoughts and beliefs, I have chosen to stay in an environment which I fully realize will bring increased scrutiny upon me by law enforcement and government.

My decision to do so was impacted greatly by the actions of the ATS staff and owners. Their decision to leave the Erad3 profile and posts intact for public viewing shows both courage and wisdom and is consistent with their stated beliefs. It is when things “go wrong” that you see a person or organization’s true character.

Having come from a place where I had bought into the notion that Jared Loughner is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, I am starting to question that premise.

Why?

I do agree his writings are consistent with what little I know of paranoid schizophrenics, but they seem to be missing something that has troubled me from the start. From my limited experience with paranoid schizophrenics, I noticed their extreme fixation on certain things that always seemed to remain consistent despite anyone’s best attempts in reasoning with them. A fixation they are incapable of hiding.

Erad3’s writings do reflect this trademark fixation, but this fixation does not appear to be consistent with targeting Gabrielle Giffords and a crowd of innocent bystanders. Missing in his writings are the descent into madness and inability to conceal those thoughts in his writings. What I am saying is that Erad3 was consciously and acutely aware that putting any hints of his potential for violence may get him banned and thus his writings would not be viewable online. I believe this represents the actions of a person who completely understood not only right and wrong, but the need to keep his intentions secret.

To put it flatly, many others have written things on the internet which could be considered much more “threatening” or “ominous” in nature. I have definitely said harsher things to others than Erad3 said to members here. This appears to be inconsistent with his manner in the real world. Many have reported to find him ominous or threatening in person, but you do not see that reflected here whatsoever.

I would like to point out MMPI2’s post in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Quoted from MMIP's post:

I think that this website further informs the discussion here:

market-ticker.org...
and here:

thechollajumps.wordpress.com...

There is more than a little evidence to suggest that the Sheriff in Pima county was aware of this Jared guy's shennanigans, had been in receipt of multiple complaints, but had soft-peddled their containment of him because Jared's mommy is (was) a member of the county heavily democrat-leaning political structure.


Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation.

No doubt, the Sheriff's recent protestations about "hate speech" is designed to deflect blame from him and his office, especially what with the chief law enforcement officer in the county ignoring rampant substance use, setting up satanic shrines in a public park, and calling in death threats to

If confirmed, this is a stunning revelation that the Pima Sheriff’s office was aware of Loughner’s threats well prior to this incident and chose to do nothing about it. And (possibly) if Jared Loughner had been dealt with properly, these prior incidents could have legally prevented him from purchasing the handgun used in his attack.

This is what ATS is all about, the real search for the truth. Posts by members such as MMPI2 is why I am proud to be a member here.

Forums such as ATS serve an important function in today’s society and fill in the important gaps which the MSM is content with leaving empty nowadays. There are extremely important gaps in this story which have yet to be filled, but ATS members are working on filling these in as we speak. For that, I thank all those who constuctively contribute here.


ATS, you kick *ss.

Government has constantly preached to us, “If you are doing nothing wrong, what do you have to hide.”

ATS has answered boldly, “We have nothing to hide. View Erad3’s posts, profile and responses by members of this forum. We are open and seek the truth.”

Now, Pima Sheriff’s department, show us all complaints you have on record for Jared Loughner. If you have done your job well, then you should have nothing to hide.

seems logical. i doubt if they'll allow you to purchase a gun if the term 'death-threat' appears anywhere on your background check. somehow it wasn't on there. hmm... jobs not done it seems?

reply to post by Urantia1111


Yes, I agree - much more to be done.

I hope to hear of the nature and subject of his calls to the local radio personality and local blogger.

I feel the subject matter of those calls would fill in the huge gap between his online posting interests and how that has any ties to Gabrielle Giffords. I have been assuming the NASA angle over illegal immigration or anything else but it still seems thin to me.

His Mother's employment in local government is of high interest also. Was leeway given to Jared because of his mother's position? Massive lawsuit potential there. I could easily see how this could lead to a wrongful death lawsuit against his parents who (if this information is correct) were aware of his death threats and purchase of a handgun and did nothing to help protect society from him.

I would also like to see writings from him in college to see if he could put together thoughts and ideas properly at some point. Maybe his internet postings were done as a long term strategy to contribute to an insanity defense when he is actually just an evil murderer.

I would also like to hear were his family was at the time of the shooting, especially his father's location.

reply to post by AP-Chris

Forums such as ATS serve an important function in today’s society and fill in the important gaps which the MSM is content with leaving empty nowadays. There are extremely important gaps in this story which have yet to be filled, but ATS members are working on filling these in as we speak. For that, I thank all those who constuctively contribute here.

Very well said!

Indeed, the new record of guests here today may be
an indication that MSM is learning that the members here are well practiced at filling in the blanks. Very quickly! Why would they not utilize a community here that has as vast a resorce and research skills than the best news agency in the world.

Some potential leads are dead ends. Others, flat speculation. But they are all weeded out in rapid fashion by the enormous intellectual capacity of the ATS collective brain.

For the most part...We do deny ignorance!

I think the sheriff was cutting the guy some slack because Jared was:
"... managed by the mental health system"

It seems the Mental Health System is partially to blame for the situation by failing to manage him correctly.

Originally posted by CitizenNum287119327
I think the sheriff was cutting the guy some slack because Jared was:
"... managed by the mental health system"

It seems the Mental Health System is partially to blame for the situation by failing to manage him correctly.

Yes, sadly ironic that Gabrielle Giffords seems to mention her concern for mental health funding at 1:23 in this video:



Was he actually in the mental health system? If so, shouldn't this have flagged on the FBI background check at the time of his handgun purchase?

I'm no expert on schizophrenia but I do believe JLL was exhibiting some signs of the disease rather sloppily. For examples, his posts are mostly incoherent ramblings, we know this; what's strange is that they seem to be attempting word salad at times. I say attempting because they aren't truly word salad. It's strange. It's like he's trying to produce sentences like word salad but the sentences still have a direction and therefore cannot be word salad.

For those of you who don't know what WS is, I'll give you an example:
A famous example is Noam Chomsky's phrase, "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously".
en.wikipedia.org...

The thing is, we'll never know for sure if he is or is not. We don't know his sleep patterns, we don't know the man himself and anyone can put on a show.

This guy is the jackpot of all conspiracies though. I mean, they found a voodoo shrine in his back yard.
www.telegraph.co.uk... occult.html
Although, I kind of doubt it's really a shrine...seems more like some random crap.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


I agree. I am no expert either, but you seem to have more familiarity with this subject than I do. Like you alluded to, it seems more like he is attempting to portray this image at times instead of just being it naturally because of mental disease.

I have multiple experiences with people with mental problems and I find some gaps with JLL. I knew a paranoid schizophrenic that was a college professor and well read. Her writings (although repetitive at some points) were much more coherant in general and (for the most part) consistent with her verbal communication skills.

From what I hear of JLL, he had outbursts consistent with his writing, but did not speak like that all the time. In fact, he functioned well enough to pass initial tests and screening for the Army and was only rejected (at the MEPS station) for a failed drug test. This capability should be more reflective in his writing, but does not seem to be.

It does not add up for whatever reasons yet to be determined.

If I wanted to chase a carrot...
Then I would obsess over the words and style of Jared...
Therefore I'm doing what TPTB want me to even though I would never become a terrorist.

Originally posted by Urantia1111
seems logical. i doubt if they'll allow you to purchase a gun if the term 'death-threat' appears anywhere on your background check. somehow it wasn't on there. hmm... jobs not done it seems?

That's not really true. To "allow" a purchase intimates an affirmative act. To buy a gun, you fill out a form. If none of the immediately disqualifying blocks is checked, the licensed seller does an instant records check, not a "background check. If there are no incompetency commitment orders or disqualifying warrants or convictions or Orders of Protection, you get the gun. A lot of states aren't even bothering to report insanity orders to the FBI. Arizona, for example has only submitted 4,400 adjudication records out of 121,700. www.charlotteobserver.com... . In Arizona, you don't need a permit to carry a concealed gun.

Good find OP, it puts a much more interesting twist on it...

Let me add to the twist... I have to ask for a moment or two to tie it in... I do not want my post edited out because some FEELS it is not connected...


Listening to both NPR and 820 am(talk radio), I heard something quite interesting


www.npr.org...

between 2 and three pm.... 01-11-11


The sheriff got blamed for inserting his opinion into the incident... Away from the victims....

Now add in the this... its a sob story... (IMHO)

yahoo sob story family

TUCSON, Ariz. – The parents of a man charged with trying to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords are devastated and guilt-ridden, a neighbor said, mourning their own tragedy as Tucson residents prepared Tuesday for a community memorial service and a visit from the president. Jared Loughner's mother has been in bed, crying nonstop since the shooting rampage on Saturday, neighbor Wayne Smith, 70, told KPHO-TV. Amy and Randy Loughner want to know where they went wrong with their 22-year-old son.

Well I have decided to go further, I will post on this part if I find any more...

It seems that it does completely change the nature of events from perspective

Another factor is medication. Was he on any medication for his illness? Was he actually receiving the mental help the authorities said he was?
These questions should be answered.

reply to post by ripcontrol

Jared Loughner's mother has been in bed, crying nonstop since the shooting rampage on Saturday

I wonder, crying out of sadness or guilt?

If, as it seems to be, JLL made multiple death threats and was given leeway by the Pima County Sheriff because his mother worked in local government, then I would lean towards crying out of guilt.

Those looking for a conspiracy need look no farther than this. There was a conspiracy to give special treatment to a mentally unstable threat to our society because of who he was related to. This happens all the time, take the late Senator Kennedy for example.

The conspiracy is that those who are "in the club" do not answer to the same laws as the rest of us. This is a simple fact proven time and again by too many politicians, elite and entertainers to list here. Until this stops, Americans will not fully trust their government. Why should they? Time and again we see the same stories and nothing is done. Last example: Arnold Schwarzenegger's reduction of sentance of that scum that tried to stab to death someone. How about a tax evader Geitner as Head of the Treasury?

Why hasn't the media (especially conservatives) gone for the throat of the Pima County Sheriff on his failure to prevent this act when they knew that JLL had made multiple death threats? Becasue none of them want any government agency held fully accountable for their failures.

Just my opinion.

I really don't give a sh*t if DHS or LEO brands me as "anti-government" for this opinion.

I'm not anti-government, I'm anti corruption, favoritism and incompetence.

reply to post by AP-Chris


The sharing of ideas and opinions on sites like this are important, We must note that not liking one opinion that you share yours without trying to insite mental pain,, yes mental, people convince themselfs that other ideas and opinions are wrong and they are right, then comes the second person to egg them on, (for months even years) then they snap look at other shootings, in schools, Drs. offices opinions are important share them the right way......

reply to post by CitizenNum287119327


The mental Health system is not the problem, if you need help or some sorte of support and know you need but refuse to ask the problem is you, and if you get help and the medication you are on does not work say so, ask a family member to help, parents are willing to help if you let them know there is a problem, SO don't blame the System if you are the problem