Why I have a problem with the church.

Years ago I was a regular church attendee. As time elapsed, i stopped going to church because of other things. I was brought up as a strict christian, going to church every sunday etc etc. Then as I got older I started questioning the church. Please note, not my religion, but the church itself and what it stands for.

I recently got married, and as is the custom we had to go and see the Pastor before me and my wife got married. We got to ask him questions, and he lectured us about the institution of marraige. Then I asked him this: Let's say a homeless guy comes wandering into the church on a Sunday morning when the service is going on, they would probably asked him to leave? He responded yes, they probably would. He said he knew it was wrong, but that's the way socieity has become. I was like WTF (not out loud though).

I also raised the issue of collecting the money in church. Why does it need to be done in the middle of the sermon? Why do they make announcemnets in the church about the following Sunday's bazaar where all types of things are being sold INSIDE the church? To collect money for the church was the response.

I always though the church building was a holy place. But I now see it has just become another building driven by commercialism. I am still a religious person, but the inside of a church i would probably not see again.

The building itself seems to have become a place of business, and according to my believes, the two should not mix.

VvV

I feel the same way.I have no problem with religion,but I do have a problem with people using religion to take advantage of others.And the morons who blame everything that happens to them on God.

Personally I think it helps having a little faith.

DING DING DING

We have a winner!

These points you bring up here were major factors in my decision to stop practicing "organized" religon.

I TRY to live by the rule :

do on to others as I would have them do on to me..

being human, I cannot say that I have always managed to accomplish that, but I feel no less connected to G-D now, then when I paid my weekly tithe....

~meathead

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


I have seen people and went to church with people who could not shower regularly, they were basically without money. The churches I chose to go to welcome any who wish to come in (as long as they are not causing problems).

The church I attend now would welcome this type of person, we have some who are poor that come now in fact.

As for collection it is taken before the service after praise and worship (singing) and announcements. Our pastor tells people that the giving should be in the heart and not to give if they do not want to. Some do not give others do. It is because of the way our church is that it still is able to grow and pay its bills. We are a small church at the most 100 people go but normally it is more about half that. Our pastor also drives a school bus for a local school to get extra money. Any work done on the church either he does or members do (aside from any major construction).

I am sorry you came across a church that would not be welcoming to a homeless man. As long as he is not disturbing anyone (screaming, picking pockets or anything of the sort) church is a great place for him or any to be. Who cares if he stinks or is dirty, things can be cleaned and the air freshened.

I guess it is about the region sometimes. We go to church in a farm area though so some people mess with livestock before coming to church as well.

Church is not about some flashy building (buildings rot). Church is not about how nice everyone can dress up (even those who have dirty blackened hearts can look nice). Church is about the family of people that can depend on one another in a time of need. Church is about those who are not related yet act as a family and come together to worship our Father.

God does not care what the building is like or how nice we dress, He cares about what is in our hearts.


Raist

I went to church regular as a child and growing up. When I got older I had a friend that was writing a thesis on religions for college and she and I attended just about every denomination church you could think of. An interesting journey but my conclusion at the end was that churches or organized religion is a business. The minister, preist, etc goes to college to be taught how to minister the congregation and how to run the business thereof. They are not chosen ones as many believe, they choose this profession the same as a doctor, lawyer, etc. I consider myself somewhat agnostic believing there may or may not be a God. I do believe in a creator and my native ameican heritage leads me to nature to have my one on one with the creator. I don't find it necessary to involve anyone else. I don't feel I need a leader to tell me how to pray to the Great Spirit/Creator or to put money in a collection plate to keep a building in upkeep and give someone a salary. Have a good heart - good intentions, that is true spirtuality to me.

Not all churches have paid clergy or collect money during the service. Mine doesn't do either.
For years a developmentally disabled institution was just a block up the road, and occasionally we had a visitor. As long as they didn't cause a scene, they were welcomed. To turn anyone away from a church is wrong. Collecting money during the service is wrong.
It's one of the reasons I chose my church when I was looking. So, keep looking. You'll find something you feel is doing the right thing.

Originally posted by stars15k

For years a developmentally disabled institution was just a block up the road, and occasionally we had a visitor. As long as they didn't cause a scene, they were welcomed. To turn anyone away from a church is wrong.

Amen.

I cannot believe any one that is a teaching man of God would turn someone away.

Any church that turns people away is not teaching the true Word or God.

Raist

I personally stopped going to church because I got sick of the overly opinionated garbage that the pastors tend to pick and chose from the Bible to argue their own ideas on life. If you are going to take the Word, take it all. You cannot be selective and warp its scripture to suit what you want to believe; that is NOT faith, it's exploitation. Sorry to say, but most "Christians" don't know a damn thing about Christianity.... or at least they don't act like it. I have read the Bible a total of three times throughout my private school education, and they all were entirely different books when switching between versions, there are really only 2 clear points that followed through all of them:

1. God is the judge of his children, not you

2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself -- only do to others what you would have them do to you

Many churches make a complete mockery of these 2 basic rules of the faith, and I can no longer be a part of the hypocrisy.

1. Depending on their behavior, the homeless being sent away from the church during the service surprises me. I can't think of a church I've been in that would have booted a homeless person from their service simply for being homeless. As long as they were there to hear the Word of the Lord, (as opposed to causing a scene or disrupting things) it seems to be diametrically opposed to the nature of the Faith to ask them to leave.

2. The collecting of the "offering" (***gotta love that old time holdover term!) has always been amusing to me. Going back to the Judaic roots of Christianity, the people would bring their animal sacrifices to the priest, who would then sacrifice the animals according to the Law, burning a portion of the animal for God & subsisting on the rest as food. This right was prescribed to them as it was presumed that these priests would spend their days in commune with God or performing duties related to the Faith and, as a result, not have the time or physical resources to provide their own food. With the progression towards Christianity came some subtle changes to these practices. Most early Christian "services" were not presided over by any official "holy man", but were small gatherings, often at great personal risk of persecution, at individuals' homes. Those who visited these homes would often travel long distances to do so, and would frequently bring with them gifts of food, incense, or baubles for the host of the service as both a "thank you" and as simply a general gift for opening their home & heart. In actuality, Jesus himself told us his thoughts on money collecting inside the church... the only time in the New Testament when He showed the emotion of anger was when he threw the money changers, tax collectors, and vendors out of a chruch, citing that they were befouling God's Holy Temple. Again, a simple check of history shows that the majority of the tax collectors in Jerusalem during the ROman occupation were actually Jews associated with the Temple itself.

Somehow, over the years, this has been lost. The Church seems to have completely forgotten "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's." God isn't money, God is spiritual, God is the Heart, God is the soul, and God is love. IMHO, the "offering" in Church should be an offering of a prayer of thanks and a personal affirmation towards God... having nothing whatsoever to do with secular money.

***SIDE NOTE: I parenthsize "offering" because the term itself is quite charged. The concept of offering something means it can be rejected and is very much alive with the energy of someone from a lower position hoping and begging that someone who holds power will accept whatever sacrifice it is they are giving unto them. It actually may have had some justification 2,000+ years ago, when the blood of the sacrificed animal was burned & offered directly to God as a resolution from personal sins. However, when Jesus was crucified, He paid for humanity's sins in whole. There is no more offering of gifts or deeds to resolve man's sins... all that is required is devotion of heart to Jesus. Yet the term has held on because it grants a tremendous aspect of power to leaders of the Church. I have always found it fascinating that the Church will defend the poor giving sums of money to the Church by saying that it is their (the poor's) money and they are simply doing with it what the Lord has moved them to do... yet the same is never equal in reverse... when you have someone who says they cannot afford to give a higher percentage to the Church, it is quickly assailed with promises of damnation & claims that all money is "from the Lord."

I am not turning a blind eye to the blessings of God in the financial realm. I am, however, saying that Jesus was pretty plain faced when He said that you cannot buy your way into Heaven. The comment regarding it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven has been vastly exxagerated by the Church for their own financial gain. The "Eye of the Needle" was a small gate into Jerusalem. In order for a camel to enter the city through that gate, it had to stoop and have all of its baggage removed. Think of this in spiritual terms. Jesus wasn't saying a rich man cannot enter Heaven, He was saying that a rich man had to be very careful to not place more importance on his wealth than he did on God and not become hindered on the spiritual path by their worldly baggage. Nowhere in there did Jesus advise the rich man to heap his riches upon the Church.

It's true what you say but you have to remember the bigger picture and the greater plan.

Remember, there shall be a 'great falling away' and many will lose their faith. The truth of this prophesy can be seen in your post. You are only one, imagine how many others are feeling this way. The great falling away is happening right now.

Remember Luke 22:37...he was reckoned among the transgressors...

Likewise, in these days, his true witnesses shall experience what it is like to be reckoned amongst the trangressors. Some christians like Judas shall betray one another and some like Peter shall deny being one of them...

Actually I recommend you read the whole chapter of Luke 22 to remember the truth. In verses 40 and 46, Jesus returns from praying to find his disciples asleep.

He tells them to Pray, that they do not enter into temptation.

This is what's happening to the entire church right now. While Jesus is gone for a little bit, the church has fallen asleep. Rise and pray that you do not enter into 'the hour of temptation' that is going to come upon the whole world to try those who dwell on the earth.

Religion is big business these days. This is probably why they would not let the homeless guy enter. He has no money--this a business. It takes money to run it, and those without any do nothing for the bottom line.

Remember, there shall be a 'great falling away' and many will lose their faith. The truth of this prophesy can be seen in your post. You are only one, imagine how many others are feeling this way. The great falling away is happening right now.

reply to post by iamnot


I am not falling away as you suggest. My faith and beliefs are still very strong mate. My problem lies with the building we call the church. Not with the religion or faith. God resides inside me and inside you. I believe there is no need to go to a man made "temple" to give praise to God.

Refusing a homeless man, because he stinks, or got no money, or might be a disruption, that is also wrong. I was taught to help where ever i can. Yet the building that is the church, will not do the same. When inside the building, suddenly everything changes. And the same people sitting there very nicely, nicely dressed, with their expensive perfumes and what not, will frown, or look down upon this homeless guy, who is just looking for some help.

No man, I will not attend a church. I have my faith and my religion. I have my God, and that is all that matters. A man man structure like the church is not necessary, same goes for man made trinkets such as golden crosses being sold for church money. That is not on.

VvV

reply to post by burdman30ott6


burdman, Jesus never had a problem with money being collected in fact in one of His teachings to His disciples He explains that the poor woman who gave less than one penny (by today’s standards) was giving more than the rich who were giving a lot of money. The reason is she gave what was in her heart to give. That woman gave everything she had to give while the rich were only giving very little of what they could.

Mark 12:41-44 41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

www.bibleontheweb.com...



The problem Jesus had with the money changers is that they were making a mockery of God’s house by robbing the people in God’s house.

Matthew 21:12-13 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

www.bibleontheweb.com...

There was a difference. Now the modern churches that are robbing people and using their money for anything other than the church building or in spreading the Word of God I am sure Jesus would have issue with them as well.

Raist

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

maybe you just haven't found the right Church... my Church Welcomes the homeless as everyone else...
most of the the time they take advantage of the the congregation but we give them money anyway...
Finding a Church is like finding a wife, it could take a bit to find the one you love... I go to a tiny little non-denominational and It is much better then a multi-million mega Church... I hope ya don't give up... It's good to be around other Christians....