Almost Arrested For Obeying The Law! Need Advice.

Absolute bull# that you got pulled over at all.

You were following the writ of law, how can suspicion be reasonably articulated against a motorist just because he has a gun, something he is constitutionally guaranteed to be allowed to have?

That you guys are all saying "oh it's reasonable to be randomly pulled over and treated like a terrorist and then to have the police attempt to confiscate your gun and then to be threatened with arrest and ticketed for an offense you didn't commit" is okay scares the hell out of me.

You must hire a lawyer. If you try to represent yourself you will leave the court room without a CCP and a criminal record.

If you do not win the case you will loose your CCP.

The law you are charged under, is a weapons violation, it is a criminal offense, you will never be able to clear a Homeland Security background check if you do not win this case.

this is no small matter, this is very serious and could affect the rest of your life.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


i would sue for emotional distress, i have had it with thees hard core "i know the law you do not" and "i will blow you a way just sneeze" LEO's. Do not get me wrong, not all are like them, i have had close friends that was/ are leo's, but it is thous few that, need not wear a badge let a lone a gun, and they need to be taught a leason

There the type that you hear about, leo's shoots suspect 21 times... 15 shoot's are fired at... from officers weapon, ... 2 officers fire 36 rounds... the one i remember "deputy discharges weapon at detained suspect"

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG
First, let me say that I am almost always a supporter of our law enforcement officers.

Crucial mistake here, you should have known, never trust a robocop.Word to the wise.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

so the NRA emails i get are wrong? or was this just a one time thing? i now the NRA does pull some fluff and puff now and then but i do like getting the hole story and seeing over the fence.

I don't doubt the validity of the NRA stories, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. Good, eventless encounters don't make good headlines.

I have had more than my fair share of run-ins with the police. I am a little hard-headed. 99% of my experiences have been positive ones with police acting very professionally. I am sure that crazy stuff does happen, and I know some cops get overly zealous and aggressive.

I once had to do what killdogg did and demand a supervisor come to the location. A cop wanted to tow my motorcycle for no tag and arrest me for no license, but I was repairing the bike, and I knew my laws, and I knew I was in the right. I told the cop he wasn't going to take me to jail by himself, and he better go ahead and call for a supervisor, while I waited on the bike. He pulled his gun as well, but I just sat calmly and waited. He called it in, and more cars showed up, and after about an hour, they sent me on my way with no tickets.

Police abuse happens, but professional encounters with police are much, much more common, they just don't make good headlines.

We have a set of laws on the books but it seems cops are enforcing laws they make up on the spot. Cops respond to complaints. Someone complained and they had to act. I suppose your case all depends on the definition of brandishing. They drew down on me and my cousin in the grocery store. He was wearing his pistol where alcohol was sold. He is a cop himself so it did not go on his record.

Originally posted by sremmos
Absolute bull# that you got pulled over at all.

You were following the writ of law, how can suspicion be reasonably articulated against a motorist just because he has a gun, something he is constitutionally guaranteed to be allowed to have?

That you guys are all saying "oh it's reasonable to be randomly pulled over and treated like a terrorist and then to have the police attempt to confiscate your gun and then to be threatened with arrest and ticketed for an offense you didn't commit" is okay scares the hell out of me.

Yes, I was following the "writ of the law" but that is not what bothered me. Having my gun taken and threatened with impound and getting the citation is what bothered me. Having a gun pointed at my chest bothered me more.

Like I said, this has happened more than once. I get off my bike or out of my car, I inform the officer that I'm armed, they take my gun while I get my CCDW out. It's not a big deal and doesn't bother me in the least. These jackholes were the minority of LEO's in that they had no idea what they wanted to charge me with, but had their mind made up that they were going to charge me with something. I get stereotyped all the time. I'm 6'3, shaved head, 230 so I'm stocky, gauged earrings, and I'm on a motorcylce. I'm used to being the subject of suspicion. However, I'm a college graduate with a MBA, I work for a large bank and run a business at home. They never expect me to be as well spoken or intelligent when I get off my bike. These cops simply wouldn't let their minds be changed.

I've got an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow morning and he says that I'll never see the inside of a courtroom. However, once the charges are dropped, I'm filing a suit against the city to recover my legal expenses and maybe a little more on the side if I'm lucky. I'll let you know. My court date is September 8th so I'll try to update on or before that date.

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG
reply to post by 4nsicphd

 

Nice and thank you. I'm not so much concerned about a lawsuit, really just wanting to draw attention to this BS. If I was in one of the surrounding counties that have Mayberry sheriff, I could almost understand this, but I was two miles outside of downtown Louisville. Still pissed about this, can't concentrate here at work.

If you don't care about a lawsuit, then get it dismissed, "with prejudice" any way you can. I practiced criminal law in Kentucky for 25 years until I retired from it, and Rule Number 1 is that Prosecutors are lazy. So read up on Kentucky Rules of Criminal Procedure 7.24 and 7.26 and file, in writing, a Discovery Request that will keep the entire prosecutor's office busy. Be sure and ask for a copy of the cops dash cam tape. You can't get witness statements until the trial but you can get the official police report which will have the witness's name and substance of the call.See, www.kybar.org... And at the first court appearance, which will be for the purpose of setting a trial date, demand a jury trial. Much more work for the prosecutor.
Better yet, get a lawyer who knows what he's doing. And this isn't legal advice amounting to an attorney-client relationship. I don't do that stuff anymore.
Good luck. I need to run into Besseterre and get another case of Caribe before the afternoon Tstorms hit.

Plea no contest and ask for a deffered sentence. That will be your best option. What you did in accordance with most state conceal carry laws is expose a fire arm that is ment to be concealed, hence the label of "Conceal Carry". You did violate the law, period. With out the deffered sentence you may be putting your permit in jeopardy. Accidental or not makes no difference in these arguements. You allowed your fire arm to become exposed, weather intentional or not it happend, the law makes no distinctions to how it became exposed, just that it did become exposed.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


My advise to you, is the following:
1) If you are going to fight this, get a lawyer. Find one who is skilled in the laws of the city, county, and state to fight this. A lawyer is able to best advise you.
2) If you were in the right, then as part of the defense, ask that all fees be not only dismissed, but the police pays for your attornies fees as well. Most attorneys will give you some free advice, especially if they think that the case can be won.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
Plea no contest and ask for a deffered sentence. That will be your best option. What you did in accordance with most state conceal carry laws is expose a fire arm that is ment to be concealed, hence the label of "Conceal Carry". You did violate the law, period. With out the deffered sentence you may be putting your permit in jeopardy. Accidental or not makes no difference in these arguements. You allowed your fire arm to become exposed, weather intentional or not it happend, the law makes no distinctions to how it became exposed, just that it did become exposed.

This is a perfect example of the problems with asking for legal advice from non-lawyers. Kentucky does not have a nolo contendere plea or a "no contest" plea. It's either guilty or not guilty. Try anything else and the judge will enter a not guilty plea on your behalf and it's off to trial for you. And Kentucky does not mandate that you conceal a weapon if you have a permit. Go to Court Days in Mt. Sterling this fall and see hundreds of people with holstered weapons or otherwise engaging in open carry.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by 4nsicphd]

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
Plea no contest and ask for a deffered sentence. That will be your best option. What you did in accordance with most state conceal carry laws is expose a fire arm that is ment to be concealed, hence the label of "Conceal Carry". You did violate the law, period. With out the deffered sentence you may be putting your permit in jeopardy. Accidental or not makes no difference in these arguements. You allowed your fire arm to become exposed, weather intentional or not it happend, the law makes no distinctions to how it became exposed, just that it did become exposed.

"No contest" pleas still show up on background checks. Plea No Contest to a weapons charge? Kiss goodbye the opportunity to ever adopt a child, work at a school, work for the government. Heaven forbid you get an assault charge or a domestic battery complaint at some point, they pull your record and see a previous weapons charge?

Definitely do NOT plea to anything other than NOT GUILTY!

This is a serious black mark on your record.

For the Record, I hire for a State Government Agency, and if you plea No Contest to a weapons charge, it is very, very unlikely that you would ever get hired here.

The deffered sentence removes all of it from your record if you complete the total amount of "probation" with out a violation.

And if there was a law that allows open carry then the only way that you could be charged with brandishing a fire arm is if you actually were holding it in your hand, after looking at the "brandishing" law it does not specify there for giving a double standard that allows for charging. As for the charge it also depends if it was given on a state, county, or municipal level as to the legalities of the charge. Due to the fact that you were on a state highway, you could have easily been charged at a state level which means local and county laws have zero play in the case. Yes there is a "no contest" plea in kentucky. In order to get a deffered sentence in most courts you must plea "no contest". Look it up, call an attorney, I don't care myself, but these are the facts.

I am from Kentucky and I know how the cops can be there. I suppose the best thing would be to pay the ticket, however when you do - in a nice way tell them it was an accident that your shirt flew up and exposed your weapon. Yea, I know a little butt kissin, but it might save you some money and you could ask if they could add that to your report. Sorry this happened, I use to carry concealed there too - in my purse - never had a problem.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


'Sorry to hear of your troubles. Unfortunately, you brought this on yourself because of a CC, that should be your first concern--keep it concealed.

And also unfortunately, because the cops wanted to show you that they didn't like your right to have CC so they more or less pretended to treat you as a typical gun-totin' outlaw.

Yes, take this to court. You will win. Having been checked and given that license shows full well to the judge that you are a decent citizen. The branishing was unintentional, not purposely done, and the actions of the cops was outside of what should have been your response once you said you had a license.

reply to post by getreadyalready

thanks i just wanted to get your POV, i too have had good and bad experiences with LEO's some just do not fit the bill to understanding too,how should i put this, "mulberry, Andy'ish" and others well think of the biggest baddest bully you knew in school and 10 fold that.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
Yes there is a "no contest" plea in kentucky. In order to get a deffered sentence in most courts you must plea "no contest". Look it up, call an attorney, I don't care myself, but these are the facts.

You better go after a refund of your law school tuition. Kentucky Rule of Criminal Procedure 8.08 clearly lists allowable pleas. "A defendant may plead not guilty, guilty or guilty but mentally ill." www.kybar.org... Hmmm. No "no contest" anywhere.
And your ignorance of Kentucky law really shows through when you talk about "municipal, county, and state law applying. Louisville-Jefferson County has been a merged Urban County Government for quite some time now. There is no city and county. It is a merged single government just like Lexington-Fayette. The Kentucky Constitution was amended in the early 1970s to provide for such a form of government. There is one police force, the "Metro" police department.
And you might also want to Google KRS 524.130 Unauthorized practice of law.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

The deffered sentence removes all of it from your record if you complete the total amount of "probation" with out a violation.

That is what they always tell you, but it is flatly WRONG!!

It may not show up on the most basic $15 background check, but it will show up on anything more serious than that.

You are also required to disclose it on a job application.

In my department, we have had to fire so many people for dishonesty because they failed to disclose something that was supposed to be wiped out, that we now have a separate form from our legal department, and we do a "second chance to disclose" during the interview. If you don't disclose it, we will see it on the background check, and you will be dismissed from your position for dishonesty on your application!

Every application I have ever seen has a question that says, "Have you ever entered a plea of no contest, or entered a pre-trial diversion program?"

DO NOT FALL INTO THIS TRAP!

Okay, now that I have seen some more responses from the ignorants in the theater, I have to reiterate my position.

HELL NO, you do not allow the judge to make ANY decision.

A plea of anything but not guilty will get you INTO the system. That is WHAT they want.

First off, YOU DID NOTHING UNLAWFUL.

Next, what the government representatives did, was unlawful.

HELL NO!

As I said, first off, make them PROVE that they have jurisdiction, then and only then, do you make a statement. That is when you ask for counsel. You do not SIGN anything to do with court. Including contracting with one of their lawyers! Everyone, ask yourself, if the lawyer is a representative of the court, does this NOT create conflict of interest?

Remember this folks, a lawyer is part of the system. They will NOT do what is best for you. They will do what is BEST for the system, period.

The very rights that protect you, are removed by using their system. Remember that! If a lawyer makes the court look bad, how do you think the court will treat them in future cases?

The best thing you can do is to begin to understand the LAW. Lawyers originally were to assist, nowadays they get you to contract the supposition. Remember, you have EVERY right to confront your accuser. You also have the right to confront the VERY Constitutionality of the LAW.

As I said earlier, this is a suggestion or idear. Do not let them contract you into the crap though!

Well, over a week before my court date and my lawyer just called. The prosecutor's office has decided they don't want to persue this case so they are going to move for dismissal on the 8th with court cost waved. I'm still trying to figure out how to recoup the retainer fee I paid my lawyer, but just wanted to update the thread.