Are Women Conditioned To Be Weak By Society?

Hi,

I saw some threads regarding women's rights and thought it would be a good idea to ask the question: why do women allow themselves to be subjugated by social conditioning telling them to - among other things - wear heels, dresses and grow their hair long? Or, perhaps, this isn't subjugation at all? It's a thought-terminating-cliche, you might think, but is it really that obvious?

Cheers.

I was raised by a hard nosed Marine and was never raised to be weak. There is not much I am afraid of. Maybe some women are raised like that but I was not.
I can not probably hold my own against a man if attacked but I sure would give it a try if I had to.

reply to post by vaevictis


Pretty much, yeah.

Not as much since characters like Sarah Connor, Alice (RE), and others are much more common.

But I think female action stars appeal more to men.

But there has always been that treatment of women.

In Japan, women were not allowed to be samurai, not allowed to carry swords. Which was justified by the belief that women were weaker, but in swordsman ship, at least with a a japanese sword.. strength wasn't nearly as important as speed was.

i don't know to many "weak women" while i believe women are dictated to via magazine and television and their peers. things like what size there waist should be, how to were there hair etcetera. i don't think there conditioned to be weak. in fact id say they were the stronger of our species not physically but certainly mentally. i was raised by a single mother of three. she certainly wasn't weak.

In the past I believe this was how it was set up...

I've noticed something different today though. It seems like women are shown to be free, independent, and strong. Today, it's about the hot chick who can still kick major ass. So no submissiveness there.

No matter what the media says, I think women are a very integral and strong part of the overall human species. They really do contribute quite a lot, and I love females. Sometimes I enjoy hanging out with a bunch of girls instead of guys. Feminine energy is at times good to be around.

Not to say I don't like hanging out da boyz at times too. It's all about balance.

-Sol


[edit on 2-8-2010 by SolarE-Souljah]

reply to post by vaevictis


I hope to clarify that wearing heals, dresses, and having long hair has nothing to do with being weak. Plenty of strong women dress this way and have long hair.

OP, can you perhaps redefine what exactly you mean by "weak"?

Isn't it just a cliché?
I mean.....
Let's start it this way: I play video games for a long time, nearly 20 years and i learned that video games back then where not only shaped or created by men,but also by women. It's a funny fact that the first game that was banned in germay was created by a woman, carol shaw, and the game was river raid. Roberta Williams basically created the graphic adventure genre with Mystery House and created the King's Quest series. Years later she shocked the world with the ultra-brutal Phantasmagoria. There were other female game developers like Gabriel Knight by Jane Jensen...it goes up until the Assassin's Creed series produced by Jade Raymond.

The same can be said about actors, directors of movies, autors and everything. Women don't want to be put into a cliche but they get pushed into it because of some stuborn, old-age men who think that is the right way. A good example would be Danica Patrick. She drives in Indycar, she has some success and there are guys who say "she has advantages because of her weight", "she has advantages because she's a woman" and all that crap. It's unfair how woman get treated by man, because they think they're superior and they just can't accept the fact, that women are equal. If guys can accept that, there won't be any problems, but they just can't.
Just look at sports. There's "girl sport" and "men sport" and there are to many guys who for example think that women can't play football (soccer for you americans). The female national team of Germany for example is hugely succesful in the last 21 years (2 world cups, 7 europen championships, 3 bronze medal at the olympic games) at first all males thought it is a joke, now they're fans because of the success they have.

The main problem is clichés and the fact that girls are raised in the old way, while boys are raised to be the "males", the hunters ,the rulers and all the crap. If humanity could advance one step into the future and just accept that genders are equal, i think the world would be a little better.

I mentioned it before here, i work in game developed and you won't believe how many guys are there who ask, how it is possible that i workd in that field, why i do it, why i love it and how it could be, because i'm female, because i look rather "good" (or sexy) and that can't be possible, because some cliché say the only people who work in that job have to be ugly, overweight guys. (but well Jade Raymond proves them wrong, i may be prove them wrong too and Corinne Yu who leads Microsofts Halo development team proves them wrong )

Originally posted by vaevictis
why do women allow themselves to be subjugated by social conditioning telling them to - among other things - wear heels, dresses and grow their hair long? Or, perhaps, this isn't subjugation at all?

I don't really see heels, dresses and long hair as subjugation or as signs of a weak woman. Those are just signs of personal taste. I do agree that there is a lot of conditioning going on from magazines, tv, etc. about how women are supposed to look and what we should wear though. Doesn't mean all of us pay attention to it, or try to look like we're told we should look, but it's there. I don't think the women who follow it religiously are necessarily weak though, maybe weak-willed as far as fashion goes but that's about it.

Originally posted by vaevictis
Hi,

I saw some threads regarding women's rights and thought it would be a good idea to ask the question: why do women allow themselves to be subjugated by social conditioning telling them to - among other things - wear heels, dresses and grow their hair long? Or, perhaps, this isn't subjugation at all? It's a thought-terminating-cliche, you might think, but is it really that obvious?

Cheers.

Women are smart enough to play the game.

If it means a few hours in uncomfortable heels, to get what ya want, then, there ya go!

Previous game player here!

I'm still gorgeous, smart, and always one upping a dumb guy, which is mostly of them, only I don't have to do it in clothing that is a hazard to my health.

Girls, women can work it, at any time they want to. Don't even have to be good looking.

Everyone knows what is always on a man's mind, and it isn't the latest reports from the accounting department.

Men are predictable. It doesn't take a genious or even a great looking grils to figure it out!

edit typo

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Blanca Rose]

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Blanca Rose]

The long hair thing...

Is definitely a gender based type of thing.

If a woman has long hair, then okay, nothing wrong there.
But if a woman has short hair, uh oh, major dyke.

If a man has short hair, okay.
If a man has long hair, then he must be effeminate.

These are social constructs that for the most part are in place in today's society. I think it's stupid. I once picked up 2 hitchhickers that were girls, and one of them had really short hair, but was still a gorgeous female with piercing blue eyes. She was very feminine, even with that short haircut.

-Sol

Short answer, yes, they are.

Where I grew up, girls were not weak, and delicate. They would do pretty much anything the guys would do, depending on their individual size and strength. In some rural areas even here in the mainland, women are not weak and coquettish. They are strong, brave, and hardworking.

When you get towards urban areas, you see a marked difference in womens demeanor and "strength." This is a clear indication that the differences are less innate, and more learned, or culturally imposed.

Men and women are not the same, I dont argue that. But I do argue that there is no clear line between them aside from the obvious difference in genitalia. Humans are on a spectrum of strength, height, interests, etc., and both genders fall all over that spectrum.

But our culture does tend to raise women to perform at a mere shadow of their potential, intellectually and physically. Low expectations tend to produce poor performance.

I am very grateful that my elders demanded my best, both physically and mentally from me, and never rewarded weak behavior.

I believe women are more susceptible to falling into trends and popularity. It is easier to socially engineer MOST women. I am glad that there are still some individuals left. Because of this, I also do believe women are somewhat conditioned to be "weak" in today's society.

reply to post by SolarE-Souljah



I think you were born in the wrong decade!

I hate when men get whimpy haircuts, but that is just me, as my formative years were in the late 60's, early 70's.

Men with long hair buck the system, and women with short hair, do the same.

We need to get back to th days of comfort. Do what you want, without offending body odor!

I think we're all trained to act in a certain way to produce for The State.

They want you to breed, they need bodies for their economic pyramid schemes. So, the sexes are brainwashed accordingly.

Women are more susceptible? I don't believe it. Consider all the male fashion victims out there - everything from Emo hairstyles on the youth to goatee beards on sports guys and their couch jockey fans.

And men fall for the idea that they'll be "King of the castle" without considering that it is they too who are being oppressed by the whole system.

Most do realize, after it's too late, that they have fallen for some BS designed to make $ for The Overlords and now they too are trapped and oppressed. (MUST work now to support children - makes a much more obedient cog in the wheel.)

If that's not falling for BS then I don't know what is.

Everybody should just do as they want to do. But you see "The Powers That Be" don't like that - they don't like rogue non breeding people that not only can't be used (oppressed in work due to shackle of dependents), nor have they produced more consumers - they might spread this idea around and that could cause big trouble.

As with most "conspiracies" - "follow the money".

Physically weak, perhaps. I am guilty of coming across something heavy and going to find a man to pick it up for me. Many times I genuinely can't lift it myself, while other times it is just easier to get a man to do it.

However, I have experienced that women are better at dealing with pain, discomfort, and illness better than a man. I believe this is because women will baby men when they are hurt, but when women are hurt or sick we are expected to still take care of others.

I'm not saying that is the way of the world, I'm merely stating my experiences and perceptions.

reply to post by Alora


You bring up good points. Men and women complement each other, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. I really think we had it down back in the hunter/gatherer days.

It is also important to remember that some cultures have as many as 5 genders, with some men taking on women's roles and some women taking on men's roles. What an interesting world we live in.

-Sol

Women are the weaker sex, nothing to do with conditioning.

I'm not saying that women can't be mentally strong ( my mother is one of the strongest people that I've ever come across ), but deep down they yearn to be dominated by a strong man.
I know that's not politically correct, but it's just how nature is, and how we evolved.
Even the most ardent feminist goes gooey at a strong, dominant and masterful man.

The whole raison d'être of sexually eligible women appears to be trying to please a man and getting one up over their ''sisters''.
Hence why so many women are obsessed with how they dress, and demean themselves in the process.

Whereas men are much better socially and tend to be much more honest with someone if they don't like them, a lot of women just can't seem to help stabbing their female acquaintances in the back and bitching about them ( even their supposed friends ), and jealously eye-up any vaguely attractive looking woman within 50-yards of them.

All in all, I can't think of anything that, on average, women are superior to men at, but I could list dozens of things that men are, on average, superior to women at.

That is why the whole idea of gender equality is flawed.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in absolute social equality across the board, but realistically women will always play second fiddle to men in real-terms, due to nature.

You can even tell that now in a society where ''empowered and strong women'' ( whatever that may mean ) are considered to be men's equals, yet a woman still regards success as either:

1. Being attractive and pleasing a man. Or,
2. Emulating and matching a man in society ( ie. through work ).

When even women acknowledge that being ''successful'' is actually matching what a normal man does, than I'm afraid that they themselves are admitting the truth.

Originally posted by nunya13
I hope to clarify that wearing heals, dresses, and having long hair has nothing to do with being weak. Plenty of strong women dress this way and have long hair.

There's nothing wrong with that per se, however it depends on the motives of wearing those things.

If you are wearing, for example, a low-cut dress to gain attention from men, then that is weak.

If you are wearing high heels in attempt to lead someone to look at your legs, then that is also weak.

There's no way a ''strong woman'' would wear clothing for a man to look at her in a sexual manner. It's a contradiction.

Why would anyone assume that wearing heels would make a woman weak?

My dad got with my uncle one time about my dad not being able to 'keep my mother in line.' My mother was 5'2, 102 pounds and 34-21-34. She really did cause a wreck once just riding a bicycle.

Well my uncle says - it's her brother - she needs a good spanking, and my dad decides to try to do it.

After she sprayed him with mace, she took off her high heel and was standing on a cedar chest beating him in the head.

She was saying "Hit me again da_it, I'm taller than you are now, Hit me again"

My dad was a BIG tall man. He NEVER tried to hit my mom again.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You put it in words better than I could.

It is nothing against women, it really is biological processes at work.

Men and Women truly are different, we should embrace it.

-Sol